sjm34 wrote:I feel like I need to go back and rewatch the games or something. Wiggins (with apparently no handle) seems to have no trouble creating a shot for himself. He is already our best defender on the floor, and is only 19. Oh, and per 36 numbers have him at over 14 pts per game, so I guess that is how he will become an 18pt/gm scorer.
Wes Johnson flashbacks??? Do you remember Wes when he was here. The guy played decent D, but couldn't create a shot to save his life. Wes was also like 23 years old when in his rookie year.
Give the rookie a little more time.
I was thinking the exact same thing. He has had multiple games already where he has scored over 10pts in a quarter with ease. You can't do that with no handle or offensive game. His touch on his shot is nice and he has been getting anywhere he wants on the floor. I don't see any problem in his offensive game at 19 years old. Of course there is need for improvement and he needs to put it together for all 4 quarters, but I think 18ppg is a conservative estimate for Wiggins at this point.
Wiggins having no handle is a legit concern, sjm. Most of his offense is in the post or a one dribble pull-up for a deep mid-range jumper. He's not able to utilize his explosive ability at the rim because he simply can't get there. His attack off the dribble is weak and until it gets better, he won't be a big scoring option. That will lead to dunks/layups and free throws, which are huge in efficiency as well you already know.
Camden wrote:Wiggins having no handle is a legit concern, sjm. Most of his offense is in the post or a one dribble pull-up for a deep mid-range jumper. He's not able to utilize his explosive ability at the rim because he simply can't get there. His attack off the dribble is weak and until it gets better, he won't be a big scoring option. That will lead to dunks/layups and free throws, which are huge in efficiency as well you already know.
1/3 of Wiggins shot attempts have been at the rim this year. I don't get this statement Cam. He seems to be shooting because he has a nice shot.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I would talk to Knicks about Calderon for Bud. They might do it to have a shorter contract. He would be a good backup for this team behind Ricky moving forward. He seems like the type of player that will be solid until his late 30's.
That isn't going to happen Calderon is a perfect fit for the triangle and why would they want Bud they don't need anymore wings.
3 reasons
1. Shorter contract.
2. 2M less a year.
3. The Knicks are planning to have a ton of cap space next summer.
I don't think Calderon is part of the future there. It would be worth the conversation. I would try to get them to take Turiaf too as part of the deal to even out the salaries. There bad start might make them want to look at the future.
I think a lot of players would love to have the lack of total offensive tools Wiggins has. It seems to me at least 1 time every game this year Wiggins has done something on offense that makes me go. Oh wow that was pretty good so yeah he might be able to score in that way again or something similar. Wiggins is not polished but he has some actual skill. The guy is a physical freak he will score points on guys based on that alone (sorta like Dwight Howard). If he gets a quarter of a step on you its over he can get to the rim. What he can do when he gets there remains to be seen but I'm really pleased with what I've seen out of him and as you may recall I wasn't a huge Wiggins supporter at the time of the draft or all the trade talk. Its not easy to be that long quick and athletic and be able to put the ball on the floor. I think he will get enough skill there to be plenty good offensively combined with what looks to be a pretty good jumper. Its gonna take time but I thrilled to have him on the team. How many 19 year old wings have that post game he has shown?
Camden wrote:Khans: I get what you're saying, but I'll completely disagree with your second sentence. 18 PPG and great defense doesn't carry a franchise. 24 PPG with a full arsenal of offensive moves can, and it's proven. And the only reason it didn't work out with Love is because our bonehead GM squandered away assets via draft, trade and free agency. That has nothing to do with Love. Also, we're assuming Wiggins eventually develops a handle, which isn't a given. Without somewhat of a handle, I don't see how he becomes this 18+ PPG scorer. That's scary to me. Whereas on the other side, Parker may eventually be a guy where the offense can give him the ball, let him create and he'll either get his shot or find a teammate in a good spot to score. That's a huge weapon.
Cool: I've watched every Wolves game and probably half of the Bucks games. Both have shown glimpses of their potential. Wiggins has shown defensive upside and Parker has shown his offensive feel for the game. It's too soon to declare who is better, obviously, but I can't say that I don't wish we had Bari instead of Drew.
Paul George averaged 17.4 PPG 2 years ago and 21.7 PPG last year on top 3 seeded playoff teams in both years. That's not going to be that hard for Wiggins to achieve and it shows how you can do just as well with an 18 PPG and elite defensive player than an offensive juggernaut with no defense . Also, how is it not troubling that Jabari, the ready to go offensive juggernaut, is only averaging 12 PPG while shooting a quality 21% from 3 point range with 1 APG. Wiggins meanwhile is right behind him at 11 PPG with a 60% rate from downtown and just below 1 APG. Wiggins is also the better FT shooter right now and gets to the line slightly more often. The whole benefit of taking Parker over Wiggins was his early years were supposed to be superior to Wiggins' because his game was more ready. If Parker can't outplay Wiggins in the early years it is not even going to be close based on Wiggins' two-way potential to Jabari's one way game. Parker's offensive game has always been thought of to be significantly higher than Wiggins, but Wiggins was always right behind him in college by the numbers and factoring in defense it is just not even close in my opinion. Wiggins' game has always been based on efficiency versus Parker's volume and efficiency is what leads to the best players in the game while volume leads to the debates about whether Love or Melo are top ten players.
Camden wrote:Khans: I get what you're saying, but I'll completely disagree with your second sentence. 18 PPG and great defense doesn't carry a franchise. 24 PPG with a full arsenal of offensive moves can, and it's proven. And the only reason it didn't work out with Love is because our bonehead GM squandered away assets via draft, trade and free agency. That has nothing to do with Love. Also, we're assuming Wiggins eventually develops a handle, which isn't a given. Without somewhat of a handle, I don't see how he becomes this 18+ PPG scorer. That's scary to me. Whereas on the other side, Parker may eventually be a guy where the offense can give him the ball, let him create and he'll either get his shot or find a teammate in a good spot to score. That's a huge weapon.
Cool: I've watched every Wolves game and probably half of the Bucks games. Both have shown glimpses of their potential. Wiggins has shown defensive upside and Parker has shown his offensive feel for the game. It's too soon to declare who is better, obviously, but I can't say that I don't wish we had Bari instead of Drew.
Paul George averaged 17.4 PPG 2 years ago and 21.7 PPG last year on top 3 seeded playoff teams in both years. That's not going to be that hard for Wiggins to achieve and it shows how you can do just as well with an 18 PPG and elite defensive player than an offensive juggernaut with no defense . Also, how is it not troubling that Jabari, the ready to go offensive juggernaut, is only averaging 12 PPG while shooting a quality 21% from 3 point range with 1 APG. Wiggins meanwhile is right behind him at 11 PPG with a 60% rate from downtown and just below 1 APG. Wiggins is also the better FT shooter right now and gets to the line slightly more often. The whole benefit of taking Parker over Wiggins was his early years were supposed to be superior to Wiggins' because his game was more ready. If Parker can't outplay Wiggins in the early years it is not even going to be close based on Wiggins' two-way potential to Jabari's one way game. Parker's offensive game has always been thought of to be significantly higher than Wiggins, but Wiggins was always right behind him in college by the numbers and factoring in defense it is just not even close in my opinion. Wiggins' game has always been based on efficiency versus Parker's volume and efficiency is what leads to the best players in the game while volume leads to the debates about whether Love or Melo are top ten players.
When it comes to superstar players, I think scoring means a lot more then defense. George and the Pacers are great defenders, but in reality, superstar players are always going to get theirs. They couldn't stop Lebron or Wade, and lost because they couldn't score.
Same deal as why Ricky can't be considered a franchise guy. Yea he plays good D, but in a playoff series against a guy like Paul, or Rose, or Westbrook, those guys will get their points no matter how good Ricky is at D. But he's not good enough to get his against other guys, so he'll always loose his matchup
Camden wrote:Khans: I get what you're saying, but I'll completely disagree with your second sentence. 18 PPG and great defense doesn't carry a franchise. 24 PPG with a full arsenal of offensive moves can, and it's proven. And the only reason it didn't work out with Love is because our bonehead GM squandered away assets via draft, trade and free agency. That has nothing to do with Love. Also, we're assuming Wiggins eventually develops a handle, which isn't a given. Without somewhat of a handle, I don't see how he becomes this 18+ PPG scorer. That's scary to me. Whereas on the other side, Parker may eventually be a guy where the offense can give him the ball, let him create and he'll either get his shot or find a teammate in a good spot to score. That's a huge weapon.
Cool: I've watched every Wolves game and probably half of the Bucks games. Both have shown glimpses of their potential. Wiggins has shown defensive upside and Parker has shown his offensive feel for the game. It's too soon to declare who is better, obviously, but I can't say that I don't wish we had Bari instead of Drew.
Paul George averaged 17.4 PPG 2 years ago and 21.7 PPG last year on top 3 seeded playoff teams in both years. That's not going to be that hard for Wiggins to achieve and it shows how you can do just as well with an 18 PPG and elite defensive player than an offensive juggernaut with no defense . Also, how is it not troubling that Jabari, the ready to go offensive juggernaut, is only averaging 12 PPG while shooting a quality 21% from 3 point range with 1 APG. Wiggins meanwhile is right behind him at 11 PPG with a 60% rate from downtown and just below 1 APG. Wiggins is also the better FT shooter right now and gets to the line slightly more often. The whole benefit of taking Parker over Wiggins was his early years were supposed to be superior to Wiggins' because his game was more ready. If Parker can't outplay Wiggins in the early years it is not even going to be close based on Wiggins' two-way potential to Jabari's one way game. Parker's offensive game has always been thought of to be significantly higher than Wiggins, but Wiggins was always right behind him in college by the numbers and factoring in defense it is just not even close in my opinion. Wiggins' game has always been based on efficiency versus Parker's volume and efficiency is what leads to the best players in the game while volume leads to the debates about whether Love or Melo are top ten players.
When it comes to superstar players, I think scoring means a lot more then defense. George and the Pacers are great defenders, but in reality, superstar players are always going to get theirs. They couldn't stop Lebron or Wade, and lost because they couldn't score.
Same deal as why Ricky can't be considered a franchise guy. Yea he plays good D, but in a playoff series against a guy like Paul, or Rose, or Westbrook, those guys will get their points no matter how good Ricky is at D. But he's not good enough to get his against other guys, so he'll always loose his matchup
Every superstar player you mentioned is considered a two way player. Every guy I mentioned that could score at will were one way players. There aren't any teams being led by one way players deep into the playoffs. Notice how the Knicks haven't made it too far in the playoffs recently, but the Pacers have. It's because the best players play both ends of the court and I don't think Jabari will ever be a good defender while Wiggins could easily be a good offensive player.
We are far from being able to say that Jabari can score at will. He is a 30% shooter outside of 3 ft including 21% from three so far. I take Wiggins no handle vs Jabari's no shot.
