Dieng is such a key to this franchise

[mrhockey89]

I think you can fool yourself at times picking BPA. If you really don't have a spot for that guy and he doesn't fit into your team then you may be better off trading down or picking a guy you think will actually fulfill their promise on your team. Since we have talked hindsight of not taking BPA why not bring up Derrick Williams as the BPA that failed. I know I was an advocate of trading down or even flat out taking another guy because I wasn't sold on him, but I wasn't really familiar with the rest of the guys that were available. I was a fan of Kanter but did we really need another center? Anywho....

Ok yeah if the guy that doesn't fit is far and away better then yeah you probably pick him or hold out for the best deal you can get to trade down, but I don't get the sense that the difference between the top 3 is that big at least right now. Lets see what we can glean in the next couple weeks.

Monster, the reason the Derrick Williams example doesn't work as a failed BPA is because he wasn't the BPA. He may have appeared like the BPA, but like I said in the earlier post it's up to our FO to find the real BPA, not just the media hyped BPA. Derrick Williams didn't not succeed here because he was Love's backup, he didn't succeed here for the same reason he hasn't since he was traded...because he's just not that good. He didn't develop, and it's questionable as to whether he ever will. If DW was as good as many projected him out to be, the Wolves would have made the playoffs with him this year...even if he played primarily PF.

[bleedspeed]

Monster, the reason the Derrick Williams example doesn't work as a failed BPA is because he wasn't the BPA. He may have appeared like the BPA, but like I said in the earlier post it's up to our FO to find the real BPA, not just the media hyped BPA. Derrick Williams didn't not succeed here because he was Love's backup, he didn't succeed here for the same reason he hasn't since he was traded...because he's just not that good. He didn't develop, and it's questionable as to whether he ever will. If DW was as good as many projected him out to be, the Wolves would have made the playoffs with him this year...even if he played primarily PF.

I wonder if the Spurs would have picked him at 2. Would have he developed there with a better coaching and players around him? Having Beasley as your mentor is not the best thing in the world.

[Monster]

I think you can fool yourself at times picking BPA. If you really don't have a spot for that guy and he doesn't fit into your team then you may be better off trading down or picking a guy you think will actually fulfill their promise on your team. Since we have talked hindsight of not taking BPA why not bring up Derrick Williams as the BPA that failed. I know I was an advocate of trading down or even flat out taking another guy because I wasn't sold on him, but I wasn't really familiar with the rest of the guys that were available. I was a fan of Kanter but did we really need another center? Anywho....

Ok yeah if the guy that doesn't fit is far and away better then yeah you probably pick him or hold out for the best deal you can get to trade down, but I don't get the sense that the difference between the top 3 is that big at least right now. Lets see what we can glean in the next couple weeks.

Monster, the reason the Derrick Williams example doesn't work as a failed BPA is because he wasn't the BPA. He may have appeared like the BPA, but like I said in the earlier post it's up to our FO to find the real BPA, not just the media hyped BPA. Derrick Williams didn't not succeed here because he was Love's backup, he didn't succeed here for the same reason he hasn't since he was traded...because he's just not that good. He didn't develop, and it's questionable as to whether he ever will. If DW was as good as many projected him out to be, the Wolves would have made the playoffs with him this year...even if he played primarily PF.

DW was the concensus #2 pick there were even some experts still at that time that thought he was going to be the best player in the draft. I wasn't sold on him but yeah. I'll absolutely agree that he didn't succeed mostly because it doesn't seem like he is very good no matter where he plays. Maybe another team that played him in another system and at PF maybe he develops more but he also has Rubio spoon feeding him for a decent chunk of his career. I'm sure here are tons of examples of teams that took BPA and it didn't work out but it was too easy to mention DW since he was the Wolves highest pick ever and he turned out to be a bench player at best. You wonder if Ronzone that seemed to love Kanter left because Kahn didn't listen to him about him. Wolves could have made some other selections in that draft to build the team and I think there were some flashes of Lee being a pretty solid pick but he couldn't stay healthy. Its going to be interesting to see how all those bigs work out in Utah including Kanter.

[mrhockey89]

bleed, I think with the Spurs, they would have been able to be much more patient with him and hope he could become another Leonard...but I don't think he'd get much playing time with them, at least not yet. If he's going to develop, he'd have a long ways to go either way I think.

monster, I agree he was the consensus top 2 player by most media/scouts and by some top 1 (I was REALLY hoping we'd trade anything not named Love or Rubio to trade up to #1 when Cleveland suggested they might be open to that option of trading down as they were conflicted already. Before Irving got injured at Duke, he was looking like the real deal even though he was a freshman. He could have made for a dynamic backcourt combo guard with Rubio. But I guess my point was that even though DW was a top 2 prospect, he wasn't actually the best available player. If DW became the next Rasheed Wallace without the bad stuff, then DW would have been the right pick even though he played the same position, that's my point.

[Monster]

Hockey are you saying DW in hindsight wasn't the best player available or at the time. I'm not sure so I am just clarifying. Either way I am pretty sure I get your point though.

It hit me while thinking about DW and the Wolves that he might be the biggest Wolves bust of all-time. He is the highest pick got traded off for a decent vet and based on what he did in Sac last year he seems like maybe a solid rotation player that's the best I can see unless some magical lightbulb comes on but I really doubt it. That's pretty brutal but a very possible reality. That's tough on teams when they get nothing out of top 6 picks. Ok need to stop this I'm getting depressed. Sigh

[mrhockey89]

Hockey are you saying DW in hindsight wasn't the best player available or at the time. I'm not sure so I am just clarifying. Either way I am pretty sure I get your point though.

It hit me while thinking about DW and the Wolves that he might be the biggest Wolves bust of all-time. He is the highest pick got traded off for a decent vet and based on what he did in Sac last year he seems like maybe a solid rotation player that's the best I can see unless some magical lightbulb comes on but I really doubt it. That's pretty brutal but a very possible reality. That's tough on teams when they get nothing out of top 6 picks. Ok need to stop this I'm getting depressed. Sigh

Hi Monster,

Yep, in hindsight I'm saying that. I'm not saying he wasn't the obvious pick at that position. I guess to better illustrate what I'm trying to say is we project all these players out to the NBA, and that's what you're drafting off of. If DW had become what he was supposed to, then he would have been the right pick of what was available at #2. If a player busts out, that's not something you can control (outside of better scouting), so you have to trust your board...and if a player is at the top of your board, you definitely aren't projecting them to bust.

I think your ultimate point was that if 3 players all have the same rating on your board, you take the one who fits your positional needs, and I think that's a valid (and agreeable) take. My only point is that when we've got so much invested in our scouting, I'd hope they'd be able to make a decision on who will be the best player and not just throw them all in together. But maybe I'm wrong there.

You might be right on him being our biggest bust... I'd say it's gotta be him, Flynn, or Wes Johnson. But perhaps I'm missing someone.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The Flynn and Johnson busts hurt more, in my opinion. We all knew Curry/DeRozan was the better pick even at the time of the selection. Same can be said about the Johnson pick for me. I thought picking Cousins was the easiest decision in the world. 18 year old that was as big as he was, as skilled as he was. Nope. Let's take the old guy from Cuse. What??

D-Will busted, but I don't see anyone after him that was the logical pick. We can say Thompson or whoever, but that's all hindsight.

[Monster]

Hockey I think we are on the same page then. I just really hope somehow this franchise can target some guys in the draft that can actually help the team. I don't think we ever got a clear answer of who Flip wanted last year that got taken before our pick and he traded down. Bazz showed some signs of life and Dieng looks like a steal. Hey I got back to the point of this thread! Lol

To me DW is the biggest bust he is the highest pick in franchise history and really other than a handful of games in a little over 2 years he didn't do a whole lot for the team. I held out hope for him partly because I didn't think we would get much of a return on him especially if something clicked but what a dissappointment he was/is. Its too early we have to see if DW can maybe be a worthwhile guy to someone yet before we decide his legacy as a bust. Lol

[mrhockey89]

monster, Flip said on the Funkadelic today that he believes there are about...19? (I only partially heard) guys in this draft that can be regular rotation guys and mentioned he thinks it's a very strong draft. Based on those comments, I think it's a given we plan on keeping our pick, and it's also a given that Flip, if he trades Love, will be targeting more early picks.

[bleedspeed]

The Flynn and Johnson busts hurt more, in my opinion. We all knew Curry/DeRozan was the better pick even at the time of the selection. Same can be said about the Johnson pick for me. I thought picking Cousins was the easiest decision in the world. 18 year old that was as big as he was, as skilled as he was. Nope. Let's take the old guy from Cuse. What??

D-Will busted, but I don't see anyone after him that was the logical pick. We can say Thompson or whoever, but that's all hindsight.

Don't forget about Monroe being available too. Johnson was the popular pick, but some knew it was not the right pick.