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Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:52 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
monsterpile wrote:Lip you said you didn't know what to read into what you heard (thanks for posting that info) and I think that's about all you can really say. It could be as simple as reralizing there is a good chance Love may leave for nothing and knowing that Memphis has a much better roster even if Randolph doesn't resign than the Wolves have. It could have been also that Memphis wised up and realized maybe they better hold onto him after all and they showed him some love. Who knows ts all speculation right now and very confusing and fairly odd situation.
I get the feeling Flip is looking at a wide net of coaching options and he isn't in a hurry and that's a good thing. If we end up with Sam Mitchell I won't be thrilled but I won't be jumping off the ledge either. The Wolves are in a tough spot with the Love situation. If Love leaves or even if they trade him its not a good spot to want to come into as a coach. Another thing to consider is with teams hiring and firig like crazy you could wait till another opening to get a better opportunity. Who knows maybe we don't hire a coach till after the draft when a coach likes the guys we got in the draft and was one of the guys they really thought was worthwhile. Of course not terrifically likely but hey lots of crazy stuff has happened this offseason and the Finals aren't even being played yet.
Monster, I find your post here and on the other coaching thread to be the most balanced, and likely most accurate, that I have read. Almost all of us on this board were pleased with the possibility of Joerger coming here, and because of the goofy Memphis situation and his local ties, were convinced that it was a done deal. So Joerger's decision to stay in Memphis has created an emotional whipsaw. We're unhappy, and somebody needs to be blamed. The wolves dragged their feet in setting up meetings. Flip got too cute in negotiating compensation. Glen said something in the interview that repelled Joerger. Good heavens! I understand the emotional need to find a scapegoat here, but sometimes there are no villains in a bad outcome...it's just that the deck was stacked against us. It seems to me that the Wolves moved quite rapidly after the Joerger rumors emerged. And Joerger was interested, most likely because he felt unloved in Memphis. But there are some facts that we do know. The Kevin Love uncertainty makes Memphis a much more attractive coaching opportunity, and the Memphis brass realized their mistake and did everything they could this weekend to make Joerger feel wanted. Once they did that, it came down to his deciding where he had the best chance of winning, and unfortunately he has a better chance in Memphis.
Like Monster, I'm not thrilled with the possibility of Sam Mitchell being our next coach...but I would accept it and even see some promise in it. On the negative side, Mitchell has a history of offending a certain type of player...i.e. the petulant, entitled kind of player who doesn't like it when a coach criticizes him or gets tough with him. Kevin Love, for example. I'm convinced that if Mitchell comes here, Love is certainly gone. But that ship may have sailed already anyway, regardless of the next coach. On the positive side, Mitchell is a hard-nosed defensively-oriented coach who demands the best out of his players, and he was NBA Coach of the Year just 3-4 years ago, coaching a roster without the talent our roster has. Has he forgotten how to be a coach since he won that honor? I think Mitchell can succeed here, and is certainly a better option than Adelman or Saunders.
As I have written before here, though, I would prefer the Wolves seriously consider David Blatt before making their final decision. He has won everywhere he has coached, and has the reputation of being a coaching savant. Look at the job he did coaching the Russian Olympic team, and then compare the talent on that team with that of the US team. The US had Westbrook, Rose, Paul and Williams at point guard...Blatt had the much maligned Alexey Shved. Shved has become a laughingstock on this board, but take a look at his line from just two years ago in the bronze medal game: 25 points on 8-16 shooting (6-11 on threes), 7 assists, 5 rebounds and only 1 turnover. And this was against real NBA-like competition. I'd like to see what Blatt could do with Shved here, and the impact he could have on the rest of the roster. I don't know his contract status, but I hope the Wolves are looking closely at him.
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:55 am
by mjs34
worldK wrote:sjm34 wrote:The wolves didn't get strung along with Batum. The wolves negotiated two deals with Batum, one if they got him in a S&T, and one if they signed him outright. Kahn tried to get Portland to negotiate, but they wouldn't do so seriously. They didn't believe the wolves would offer Nic over ten mil a year. Kahn tried to force their hand by submitting a deal to the NBA office that he knew wouldn't go through, hoping Portland would take the bait. When they didn't Kahn signed Batum to a big deal and submitted it. Portland was forced to match, and ended up paying Batum more than he had expected, which was over 2 mil a season more than what they could have gotten him for had they signed him a during the previous season.
Sjm, Im not trying to compare the specifics of the batum and joerger thing. But what im getting at is that its the same feeling we get and always get as wolves fans. We always get our hopes up only to be disappointed in the end and settle for the 2nd ,3rd or 4th options. We never seem to be able to get things done properly. Even as simple as signing love to a proper max deal gets screwed up while we sign pek to a 5 year deal given his injury history. Whether mchale and his under the table deal, kahn or flip, we somehow always manage to screw things up. No wonder were a lottery team for a decade.
Can't argue that point World.
Have to admit it doesn't bother me much, but that might be even more telling!
Lip, that is a pretty scary scenario. Joerger and his agent may have been using the wolves all along, or Joerger realized that Flip and Glen are a couple of fools with no idea how to build a team.
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:31 pm
by WildWolf2813
monsterpile- Flip's net of coaching candidates is not as wide as you think. For someone who was brought back here because of all of the outside contacts he supposedly knew, it seems like if you're not from the state or a T'Wolf alumnus you're not gonna get major consideration.
and if this team goes through another draft without yet another coach, throw away next season altogether.
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:55 pm
by Coolbreeze44
LST, Mitchell can't succeed here. Not one chance that happens. This organization needs a dynamic up and comer like Blatt, or an established talent like Joerger or Hollins. Anything less and we continue to flounder.
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:56 pm
by Coolbreeze44
If we cant find the right guy this offseason, I'm in favor of Flip taking over until we do.
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:03 pm
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
CoolBreeze44 wrote:LST, Mitchell can't succeed here. Not one chance that happens. This organization needs a dynamic up and comer like Blatt, or an established talent like Joerger or Hollins. Anything less and we continue to flounder.[/quote
Maybe nobody can succeed here for a few years if Love leaves. I'm curious though, cool, why you think Sam Mitchell can't succeed here. Two playoff years out of four seasons with a not-very-impressive roster in Toronto, and one Coach of the Year award. Plus he's a guy who commands respect and is a true leader. Why would Flip be a better choice than Sam?
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:14 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
longstrangetrip wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:LST, Mitchell can't succeed here. Not one chance that happens. This organization needs a dynamic up and comer like Blatt, or an established talent like Joerger or Hollins. Anything less and we continue to flounder.[/quote
Maybe nobody can succeed here for a few years if Love leaves. I'm curious though, cool, why you think Sam Mitchell can't succeed here. Two playoff years out of four seasons with a not-very-impressive roster in Toronto, and one Coach of the Year award. Plus he's a guy who commands respect and is a true leader. Why would Flip be a better choice than Sam?
I think Jalen Rose can put it into better words then I can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qur_eh_xm8s&list=PLQK6nu7nx46xP36-FEJGNCBJFXB9KGn1n
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:17 pm
by Coolbreeze44
I don't think Sam is a true leader. He's never won big as a player or coach. He has a ceiling as head coach and we've seen what that is. Flip has been to the finals. He's not the greatest coach in the league but he has big game experience and has been to the playoffs many times. Nothing is hurt while Flip coaches. It just bides us time until the situation turns around and we can bring in the right guy.
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:31 pm
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
alexftbl8181 wrote:longstrangetrip wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:LST, Mitchell can't succeed here. Not one chance that happens. This organization needs a dynamic up and comer like Blatt, or an established talent like Joerger or Hollins. Anything less and we continue to flounder.[/quote
Maybe nobody can succeed here for a few years if Love leaves. I'm curious though, cool, why you think Sam Mitchell can't succeed here. Two playoff years out of four seasons with a not-very-impressive roster in Toronto, and one Coach of the Year award. Plus he's a guy who commands respect and is a true leader. Why would Flip be a better choice than Sam?
I think Jalen Rose can put it into better words then I can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qur_eh_xm8s&list=PLQK6nu7nx46xP36-FEJGNCBJFXB9KGn1n
I've always enjoyed that funny story, but that's what it is... a story. Anyone who knows Sam Mitchell or Vince Carter knows it's a no-brainer whom to believe here.http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/03/14/former-raptors-coach-sam-mitchell-says-toronto-vince-carter-should-reconcile/
Re: and another stomach punch to wolves fans!
Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:37 pm
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't think Sam is a true leader. He's never won big as a player or coach. He has a ceiling as head coach and we've seen what that is. Flip has been to the finals. He's not the greatest coach in the league but he has big game experience and has been to the playoffs many times. Nothing is hurt while Flip coaches. It just bides us time until the situation turns around and we can bring in the right guy.
We have a difference of opinion here about Sam's leadership. You make a fair point about Flip having more playoff success, but Sam never had anything like Garnett/Cassell/Spreewell to work with. Before evaluating a coach's performance, first look at what he has to work with (cough, cough...Phil Jackson). The reason Sam was coach of the year in 2007 is because the voters saw how much he overachieved with a mediocre roster. I'm not giving up on the team if Flip coaches (although I have never thought it was going to happen), but I think Blatt or Mitchell will do more with a team in transition.