Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:53 am

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:27 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:23 am

Agreed. DLO for Conley wasn't going to propel us to greatness nor was it a step back. Hopefully he provides another strong veteran voice that pays dividends in future years as his knowledge is passed down to guys like Ant, NAW (if he's still with us), and Jaden.

But unlike the Wolves, the Lakers have multiple other guys stepping up. Using your VORP stat, guys like Rui, Vando, and Reaves are all making positive contributions toward winning basketball. So they don't need AD or LeBron to go nuts every game. And DLO can just be mediocre DLO. The West seems wide open.

The Wolves on the other hand have one top-end guy doing his part (Ant), a few vets doing OK-ish (Conley, Gobert, Anderson) and then a bunch of other guys that are neutral at best (NAW) or hurting us (KAT, Prince, Nowell, McLaughlin).

I know he's annoying as hell and has underperformed... but grouping Towns in with Prince (7 - 23 fg), Nowell (5 - 25 fg) and McLaughlin (0-4 fg) seems extra harsh.

I was using Carlos's preferred stat, which is VORP. What VORP doesn't account for is how much attention he might be drawing, the tough shots he's taking others don't have to, etc. But still, relative to expectations, he's not just underperforming. He's way underperforming. I'd argue he's underperforming his role as much as Prince is underperforming in his role.

Per game averages this series: 16 pts, 10 rebs, 2 assists, 3.8 TOs, 43% FG, and 28% 3 pt%. I mean, he's a big reason our offense hasn't really gotten off the ground. He turns it over too much and is missing shots.

Yeah. I thought about the expectations/performance part of it after posting.

He's been pretty damn bad.

He's averaging 4+ TOs the past two years in the playoffs... while his assists have plummeted. Obviously, his habitual offensive fouls contribute to the number, but he just doesn't measure up protecting the ball.

Towns Assist/TO in the '22/'23 playoffs: 20/42.

OUCH!

VORP works. It's not perfect. But it pretty good. Towns is better than the other negative VORP guys for this playoff series. IF we can get more games played, I'm sure that would reflect in VORP. But his first couple games were really bad, so it what it is.

And think about it...Towns is supposed to be a max player. An All Star. Yet we are not hearing (or at least I'm not) how Denver needs to account for him or shut him down. Towns has settled into the second fiddle role behind Edwards. I want my max guys to shine. I'd really like to KAT put up 30 tonight. Is that out of the question for a max guy? We need scoring (and you know he's not bringing any defense).

DLO has played in 15 playoff games in his career, and he has failed to shoot 50% in any one of them. Yet that Laker team is set up for a run to the West finals.

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:53 am VORP works. It's not perfect. But it pretty good. Towns is better than the other negative VORP guys for this playoff series. IF we can get more games played, I'm sure that would reflect in VORP. But his first couple games were really bad, so it what it is.

And think about it...Towns is supposed to be a max player. An All Star. Yet we are not hearing (or at least I'm not) how Denver needs to account for him or shut him down. Towns has settled into the second fiddle role behind Edwards. I want my max guys to shine. I'd really like to KAT put up 30 tonight. Is that out of the question for a max guy? We need scoring (and you know he's not bringing any defense).

Regardless of all the things Towns hasn’t been good enough as a whole in this series. Still I will mention I do think it’s fair to consider how long he was out and the amount of games he played in before he jumps into a playoff series against a #1 seed.

To some extent Towns has an excellent skill set to be a compliment to other offensive players. I thought for a few games after he come back he was doing a pretty or or solid job of meshing on on offense. Last playoffs Russell struggled big time and then in the regular season after a slow start really found a groove playing on and off the ball. Towns may need to find his balance (he is a better offensive player than Russell) as well. I’d guess Denver is keying in on him to some extent I doubt they are trying to keep NAW or Prince from scoring and in general they are probably cool with letting Gobert and Conley get theirs…but they probably key on Conley to some extent since he is the PG.

Towns can be a frustrating player but he is a heck of a talent and while I don’t think he is some awesome defender he is far from bad on that end.

I know Memphis is 28-8 the past two years when Strip Club Shootin’ Ja is out. What is Memphis’ record with and without Ja this series?

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:23 am

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:07 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:02 am

Gotta give them credit. They scraped together a pretty decent team with trades and getting everyone healthy. And while LeBron is still really good, they don't over-rely on him. They have multiple ball handlers and guys that can create shots, including DLO.

I haven't been watching much of the Laker series, but just checking stats, it doesn't look like DLO is doing anything too special IMO. VORP is zero. He's their 5th leading scorer in PPG. In fact, DLO's traditional stat line is basically what we are getting from Conley in the playoffs:

Russell: 14.5 points, 5.3 assists, 4.0 rebounds, 2.3 turnovers
Conley: 13.3 points, 5.8 assists, 2.3 rebounds, 1.0 turnovers

DLO's line is a little better (except the turnovers). But not a huge separation IMO. Still, DLO is probably due for a 30 point game which is something we won't get from Conley - so I give them that. But up to this point, I'm happy with what Conley has done and have zero regrets from the trade. I'm also very curious if the Lakers re-sign DLO and for how much.

Agreed. DLO for Conley wasn't going to propel us to greatness nor was it a step back. Hopefully he provides another strong veteran voice that pays dividends in future years as his knowledge is passed down to guys like Ant, NAW (if he's still with us), and Jaden.

But unlike the Wolves, the Lakers have multiple other guys stepping up. Using your VORP stat, guys like Rui, Vando, and Reaves are all making positive contributions toward winning basketball. So they don't need AD or LeBron to go nuts every game. And DLO can just be mediocre DLO. The West seems wide open.

The Wolves on the other hand have one top-end guy doing his part (Ant), a few vets doing OK-ish (Conley, Gobert, Anderson) and then a bunch of other guys that are neutral at best (NAW) or hurting us (KAT, Prince, Nowell, McLaughlin).

Not much separating Russell and Conley?!? Conley has been WAAAAAAAAY more efficient than Russell scoring almost the same as Russell taking over 5 less shots a game all while also taking more FTs and half as many TOs. That’s a pretty big difference. Lol Here is a fun stat despite playing fewer minutes in the playoffs so far Russell has racked up the same amount of fouls (15) as Towns.

Honestly I think Reaves and a healthy AD is the biggest reason the Lakers went on the run they did after the trade deadline. Did other guys they added help? Sure but Reaves playing like a really good starting guard was and is a pretty big deal. I don’t like the Lakers in general but again they find another gem in Reaves who is putting up some pretty nice stats in this playoff series as a high minute starter.

Just wait till next year the Clippers are going to make some noise.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:37 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:23 am

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:07 am

I haven't been watching much of the Laker series, but just checking stats, it doesn't look like DLO is doing anything too special IMO. VORP is zero. He's their 5th leading scorer in PPG. In fact, DLO's traditional stat line is basically what we are getting from Conley in the playoffs:

Russell: 14.5 points, 5.3 assists, 4.0 rebounds, 2.3 turnovers
Conley: 13.3 points, 5.8 assists, 2.3 rebounds, 1.0 turnovers

DLO's line is a little better (except the turnovers). But not a huge separation IMO. Still, DLO is probably due for a 30 point game which is something we won't get from Conley - so I give them that. But up to this point, I'm happy with what Conley has done and have zero regrets from the trade. I'm also very curious if the Lakers re-sign DLO and for how much.

Agreed. DLO for Conley wasn't going to propel us to greatness nor was it a step back. Hopefully he provides another strong veteran voice that pays dividends in future years as his knowledge is passed down to guys like Ant, NAW (if he's still with us), and Jaden.

But unlike the Wolves, the Lakers have multiple other guys stepping up. Using your VORP stat, guys like Rui, Vando, and Reaves are all making positive contributions toward winning basketball. So they don't need AD or LeBron to go nuts every game. And DLO can just be mediocre DLO. The West seems wide open.

The Wolves on the other hand have one top-end guy doing his part (Ant), a few vets doing OK-ish (Conley, Gobert, Anderson) and then a bunch of other guys that are neutral at best (NAW) or hurting us (KAT, Prince, Nowell, McLaughlin).

Not much separating Russell and Conley?!? Conley has been WAAAAAAAAY more efficient than Russell scoring almost the same as Russell taking over 5 less shots a game all while also taking more FTs and half as many TOs. That’s a pretty big difference. Lol Here is a fun stat despite playing fewer minutes in the playoffs so far Russell has racked up the same amount of fouls (15) as Towns.

Honestly I think Reaves and a healthy AD is the biggest reason the Lakers went on the run they did after the trade deadline. Did other guys they added help? Sure but Reaves playing like a really good starting guard was and is a pretty big deal. I don’t like the Lakers in general but again they find another gem in Reaves who is putting up some pretty nice stats in this playoff series as a high minute starter.

I agree with that. Conley is shooting much better than DLO and plays his role much better. DLO takes shots away from his more efficient teammates. Dennis Schroder is the best point guard in the playoffs for the Lakers and so far DLO is along for the ride, with AD, LeBron and Reeves carrying the load.

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:37 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 9:23 am

Agreed. DLO for Conley wasn't going to propel us to greatness nor was it a step back. Hopefully he provides another strong veteran voice that pays dividends in future years as his knowledge is passed down to guys like Ant, NAW (if he's still with us), and Jaden.

But unlike the Wolves, the Lakers have multiple other guys stepping up. Using your VORP stat, guys like Rui, Vando, and Reaves are all making positive contributions toward winning basketball. So they don't need AD or LeBron to go nuts every game. And DLO can just be mediocre DLO. The West seems wide open.

The Wolves on the other hand have one top-end guy doing his part (Ant), a few vets doing OK-ish (Conley, Gobert, Anderson) and then a bunch of other guys that are neutral at best (NAW) or hurting us (KAT, Prince, Nowell, McLaughlin).

Not much separating Russell and Conley?!? Conley has been WAAAAAAAAY more efficient than Russell scoring almost the same as Russell taking over 5 less shots a game all while also taking more FTs and half as many TOs. That’s a pretty big difference. Lol Here is a fun stat despite playing fewer minutes in the playoffs so far Russell has racked up the same amount of fouls (15) as Towns.

Honestly I think Reaves and a healthy AD is the biggest reason the Lakers went on the run they did after the trade deadline. Did other guys they added help? Sure but Reaves playing like a really good starting guard was and is a pretty big deal. I don’t like the Lakers in general but again they find another gem in Reaves who is putting up some pretty nice stats in this playoff series as a high minute starter.

I agree with that. Conley is shooting much better than DLO and plays his role much better. DLO takes shots away from his more efficient teammates. Dennis Schroder is the best point guard in the playoffs for the Lakers and so far DLO is along for the ride, with AD, LeBron and Reeves carrying the load.

Not to mention that defense thang...

Malik Monk has sort of snuck up and become one hell of a bench scoring guard. One of these guys that just keeps getting a little better each season and eventually flips to being a plus-level player.