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Re: Running It Back
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:48 pm
by FNG
60WinTim wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:36 am
FNG - I looked at your calculations for 2024-25 salaries, and you have a flaw! You're projected 180 mil 2nd apron threshold is off -- the current estimate is 191.5 mil. That's an additional 11.5 mil to fill out the roster. No problem!
I know TC didn't make the Gobert trade without understanding the salary cap ramifications for this coming year and beyond. It's clear he has a 2-year vision to make the KAT-Gobert tandem work. If something needs to change after that, then so be it. And they had to be operating under the assumption that if it is working, they are willing to go into the luxury tax in 2024-25.
While this season fell short of their expectations, I don't see why they would change course this offseason given the adverse circumstances thrown at them. Run it back, see what happens, and make adjustments/tweaks next offseason.
Thanks for that, Tim...I like that flaw! I came up with a scenario in the salary cap thread that kept us under the apron even including KAT, Rudy, Ant, Jaden and SloMo, but the additional $11.5 million makes TC's job not so daunting. I still would not extend Naz this year, even though we have the room. Naz for me is the new DLo...a likable player with the ability to score at times, but who continually (3 years in a row now) gets badly outscored when he's on the court. And I think the reasons for that are similar to the reasons DLo consistently got outscored...while both can be good scorers, neither play adequate defense or do the other things that made teammates better. I really hope TC doesn't blow $15 million on a player like Naz, because it would only complicate the 2024-5 situation.
So I know definitely on board with running it all back with the exception of Naz. If Finchie thinks the post-injury JMac is what we're going to get in the future, then look for an alternative backup PG. But other than that, let's see if this roster can stay healthy and win 54 games.
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:22 pm
by kekgeek
Sundog wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:46 pm
Connelly also said that Ant and Jaden should expect aggressive offers as soon as they are eligible for extension -- does anyone know when that is? I'd hope that the FO is checking with Ant about roster construction going forward, since we all agree this is Ant's team now.
Crickets is all we're hearing from this team on any subject... hence the umpteen pages of speculation on multiple threads
July 1st
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:13 pm
by Monster
I’m just gonna say this: the Wolves don’t absolutely have to make any moves because of lux tax implications how we many months from now. Is there reasons why they should make moves sooner rather than later or be concerned with those implications? Absolutely. They don’t HAVE to do anything though.
On the other hand what of the Wolves have a damned good team right now and basically all they need to do is add around the margins? Typically the hard part is getting the top end players. Every year teams sign guys who are worthwhile for absolute peanuts. For years Jeff Green was a vet min player. Sure we can’t bank on signing good vet guys for the vet min or finding undrafted players like the Heat have but making a trade for some guy/s making an averagish salary isn’t for sure gonna be the answer either. Trading Towns for some huge haul might not work out either although to be honest it’s certainly tempting.
I’m not locked into this roster (if they bring most everyone back) but it’s not the worst thing in the world either. People currently don’t have faith in Connelly mostly because of the Gobert trade and no he hasn’t nailed every single move of his career. Neither did Rosas who some people here want to build a statue for. Lol I tend to think Connelly is a smart/good GM (who is a good relationship guy so everything is actually sustainable) who will be able to find some guys on cheap contracts in one way shape or form to add to the Wolves talent. He did it in Denver he can likely do it here too. I’m actually sorta expecting it. We should if we actually think the Wolves are ever going to be contenders. I’m not saying I believe they will be contenders but I also don’t think this is the same downtrodden franchise it’s been for many many years filled with multiple re-re-re-re-re-builds (Abe TM). It’s time to expect some real competence from the front office. Compete genius moves all the time every time? No but we should expect people that can actually provide more value than some random fan. Where we are now is what Connelly has been good at. Finding players here and there most of the time outside the lottery. NAW might be one of his next successes in that regard.
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:27 pm
by WildWolf2813
Monster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:13 pm
I’m just gonna say this: the Wolves don’t absolutely have to make any moves because of lux tax implications how we many months from now. Is there reasons why they should make moves sooner rather than later or be concerned with those implications? Absolutely. They don’t HAVE to do anything though.
On the other hand what of the Wolves have a damned good team right now and basically all they need to do is add around the margins? Typically the hard part is getting the top end players. Every year teams sign guys who are worthwhile for absolute peanuts. For years Jeff Green was a vet min player. Sure we can’t bank on signing good vet guys for the vet min or finding undrafted players like the Heat have but making a trade for some guy/s making an averagish salary isn’t for sure gonna be the answer either. Trading Towns for some huge haul might not work out either although to be honest it’s certainly tempting.
I’m not locked into this roster (if they bring most everyone back) but it’s not the worst thing in the world either. People currently don’t have faith in Connelly mostly because of the Gobert trade and no he hasn’t nailed every single move of his career. Neither did Rosas who some people here want to build a statue for. Lol I tend to think Connelly is a smart/good GM (who is a good relationship guy so everything is actually sustainable) who will be able to find some guys on cheap contracts in one way shape or form to add to the Wolves talent. He did it in Denver he can likely do it here too. I’m actually sorta expecting it. We should if we actually think the Wolves are ever going to be contenders. I’m not saying I believe they will be contenders but I also don’t think this is the same downtrodden franchise it’s been for many many years filled with multiple re-re-re-re-re-builds (Abe TM). It’s time to expect some real competence from the front office. Compete genius moves all the time every time? No but we should expect people that can actually provide more value than some random fan. Where we are now is what Connelly has been good at. Finding players here and there most of the time outside the lottery. NAW might be one of his next successes in that regard.
I think we're starting to realize that we hired Connelly with his biggest achievement being Jokic, a once in a lifetime player and we doubled his salary with the expectation that he'd be able to hit in a similar way for us, and then as soon as he comes here, he has a mediocre draft and tops it off by dumping everything he has into Gobert. Some people truly didn't mind if he ditched us to take the Wizards job less than a year after signing and now with this CBA stuff, we don't even know if this is rock bottom.
and I'll disagree with you on this: he has to hit EVERY SINGLE TIME. Why? He willingly killed his margin of error. That 53rd pick better pan out. One of his two ways better eventually crack the rotation the way Reid did. His signings better pay dividends. If he trades KAT (or Rudy) he better be able to somehow improve in the short term after that. He took so many possibilities away by acquiring Gobert than he can only dream of recouping that by dumping one of the best players this team has ever had and still have a clunky roster.
and a side comments regarding KAT: I'm 100% convinced he either didn't watch Jokic's crowning moment at all or wasn't affected one way or another by it, which is why I'm fine with him gone. I saw a Nuggets roster with a major lack of bitchassness for lack of a better term. If nothing else, Connelly has to get that attitude off the team.
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:44 am
by Lipoli390
Apparently, the Atlanta Hawks aren’t going to run it back. It’s been widely reported that the Hawks are looking to trade DeJounte Murray after giving up three future first-round picks to get him last summer.
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:06 am
by Carlos Danger
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:44 am
Apparently, the Atlanta Hawks aren’t going to run it back. It’s been widely reported that the Hawks are looking to trade DeJounte Murray after giving up three future first-round picks to get him last summer.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyXkZY_XwAI ... ame=medium
Murry had a tweet about this (above) which he has since deleted. I'm not sure if there is much to the rumors. But I'd take that guy on our team if he's available. Limit Mike Conley minutes by having him come off the bench. Let's go!
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:37 am
by Lipoli390
Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:06 am
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:44 am
Apparently, the Atlanta Hawks aren’t going to run it back. It’s been widely reported that the Hawks are looking to trade DeJounte Murray after giving up three future first-round picks to get him last summer.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyXkZY_XwAI ... ame=medium
Murry had a tweet about this (above) which he has since deleted. I'm not sure if there is much to the rumors. But I'd take that guy on our team if he's available. Limit Mike Conley minutes by having him come off the bench. Let's go!
Thanks for posting that tweet, Carlos. Murray was obviously mocking the reports that he’s on the trading block. But the fact that he took that he deleted the tweet suggests that he realized they might be true. I have no idea whether those reports have any merit. But I know this. The Atlanta Hawks won 41 games and went nowhere in the playoffs after giving up 3 future unprotected 1st-round picks for Murray. They didn’t give up as much for Murray as the Wolves gave up for Rudy, but they still gave up a lot. Yet, the Hawks finished with 41 wins, one less than the Wolves, even though none of the Hawks core players missed most of the season like KAT. There is something clearly wrong with that team and I don’t think management can simply run it back. Under the circumstances, I’d be really surprised if the Hawks weren’t shopping Murray. That doesn’t mean they’ll definitely trade him, but it suggests the reports about Murray being shopped are probably true.
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:50 pm
by Monster
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:37 am
Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:06 am
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:44 am
Apparently, the Atlanta Hawks aren’t going to run it back. It’s been widely reported that the Hawks are looking to trade DeJounte Murray after giving up three future first-round picks to get him last summer.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyXkZY_XwAI ... ame=medium
Murry had a tweet about this (above) which he has since deleted. I'm not sure if there is much to the rumors. But I'd take that guy on our team if he's available. Limit Mike Conley minutes by having him come off the bench. Let's go!
Thanks for posting that tweet, Carlos. Murray was obviously mocking the reports that he’s on the trading block. But the fact that he took that he deleted the tweet suggests that he realized they might be true. I have no idea whether those reports have any merit. But I know this. The Atlanta Hawks won 41 games and went nowhere in the playoffs after giving up 3 future unprotected 1st-round picks for Murray. They didn’t give up as much for Murray as the Wolves gave up for Rudy, but they still gave up a lot. Yet, the Hawks finished with 41 wins, one less than the Wolves, even though none of the Hawks core players missed most of the season like KAT. There is something clearly wrong with that team and I don’t think management can simply run it back. Under the circumstances, I’d be really surprised if the Hawks weren’t shopping Murray. That doesn’t mean they’ll definitely trade him, but it suggests the reports about Murray being shopped are probably true.
Well…They wouldn’t be totally running it back because they hired Quinn Snyder in season. They went 6 games with the Celtics who I think most of this board things is a really talented team. I’m not saying everything is fine there but they did make a legit change to that team via head coach that COULD make a difference.
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:52 pm
by Sundog
Ya know, not for nothin, but didn’t Rudy have his best seasons under Quin Snyder?
Re: Running It Back
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:03 pm
by Lipoli390
Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:50 pm
Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:37 am
Thanks for posting that tweet, Carlos. Murray was obviously mocking the reports that he’s on the trading block. But the fact that he took that he deleted the tweet suggests that he realized they might be true. I have no idea whether those reports have any merit. But I know this. The Atlanta Hawks won 41 games and went nowhere in the playoffs after giving up 3 future unprotected 1st-round picks for Murray. They didn’t give up as much for Murray as the Wolves gave up for Rudy, but they still gave up a lot. Yet, the Hawks finished with 41 wins, one less than the Wolves, even though none of the Hawks core players missed most of the season like KAT. There is something clearly wrong with that team and I don’t think management can simply run it back. Under the circumstances, I’d be really surprised if the Hawks weren’t shopping Murray. That doesn’t mean they’ll definitely trade him, but it suggests the reports about Murray being shopped are probably true.
Well…They wouldn’t be totally running it back because they hired Quinn Snyder in season. They went 6 games with the Celtics who I think most of this board things is a really talented team. I’m not saying everything is fine there but they did make a legit change to that team via head coach that COULD make a difference.
It’s still running it back even though they brought in a new head coach late last season. Quinn is replacing a darn good head coach. I’d say the Hawks have a roster problem and Quinn knows it. Another issue with Murray is that his contract ends a year from now and CBA restrictions on how much the Hawks can pay him on a contract extension is a big problem. Again, it doesn’t mean they’ll trade Murray this summer. But I’d be really surprised if they’re not shopping him. Good organizations spot and deal with problems quickly. They don’t allow those problems to fester or fail to take corrective action because of concerns about perception.
I know nothing about Atlanta’s front office or ownership so I can’t comment on the competency of their organization. But if I were in charge there, I’d be shopping everyone on that roster, including Trae Young. As much as I’m convinced that TC blundered terribly making the Gobert deal last summer, I feel much better about the Wolves than I would about the Hawks if I were a Hawks fan.
