Minnesota Sports Forum

Sundog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:48 am On the one hand, I truly appreciate all the work and thought that’s gone into some of these posts, it’s fun to read what you’re thinking.

On the other, I’m finding it to be a little quirky to hear the hand-wringing about not selecting yet another rookie this year in the second round, or over the 14th guy with a partial guaranteed contract. Finch and his staff already have to integrate 2 new rookies and essentially a third rookie in Clark into the team, as well as see if either Miller or Minott can provide meaningful production this year. That’s certainly enough work for them, and I wouldn’t want their focus diluted by adding another rookie to that mix.

Dozier seems to be a no stress, low cost placeholder until they see what’s left of the vet minimum pool of free agents. Maybe he’s the best of that vet minimum pool, but don’t get too attached or too worried if he’s not.

As for not resigning either Morris or Kyle… yes, we’ll miss both of them at some point this year. But neither were going to produce anything close to the value of their cost to this luxury taxed team. For example, Kyle would have cost something like $30million this year (contract plus tax) and there’s simply no way he was going to play to that value. I’m sure the Wolves tried to resign him at a significant discount that better matched his cost to value ratio (I’m certain Gupta has a massive excel spreadsheet with weirdly complex formulas), but he made a different choice for he and his family. To ding Connelly for that seems off base to me, like we’re looking for something to complain about after an unexpected western conference finals run.

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 1:13 am Draft: A-
Trading for Dilly: A: Got the best bucket getter in the draft, yes we gave up future assets but that 31 pick was going to be frozen anyways after the year. I like that we used one of our few assets to get a promising player.

Drafting TSJ: A My favorite player in that range, gets to the line, 2nd best bucket getter in the draft, defends well. Age (What is a massive concern) and his trial dropped him but I love the pick

Trading 37 and Moore to fall back in the draft: D Obviously a Glen Taylor decision, saved him money getting rid of Moore salary. I get it but man it stinks

Trading our late 50s pick to get cash and a heavily protect swap: F, I get it again that Glen loves his cash but no reason to not take a flyer for a 2-way guy. Yes are these moves more than likely going to effect the Wolves, no but man it would of been nice to take a flyer when the wolves are in cap help going forward and we need to add cheap talent. Just unacceptable in my opinion. Would of been ok with a future 2nd but, whatever.


Free Agency: C
Losing Morris, Kyle: D+, it stinks to lose a rotation piece in Morris for the same amount of money. I get it he wanted more of a role and he will get in in Phx but still stinks to lose Monte. I get losing Kyle and get why Glen didn't want to pay 30 more million in lux tax. But I think Kyle on the court loss is bigger than most people are thinking.

Adding Ingles : A: favorite min guy available. Just a solid add overall
Adding Dozier: C-: Not sure he is an NBA player any more but I will trust TC
Signing Garza: A: Cheap "long reliever/utillty man" for the regular season, can't complain about adding Garza back, end of the bench guys who work hard and have an NBA skill matter and Garza has that, good for him.


Overall: B+: Did the wolves improve. Hard question to answer. I think the upside in the short term and long term went up. I think the room for error is a lot smaller this year. I think losing our 8th, 9th and 10th man really eliminates surviving a ton of injury variance. But I like what we did with the little movability we did. I actually think TC offseason increased the upside of this team more than anything he could realistically do, now I think the odds that upside is reached this season is low but it is there what he gets credit fof

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 9:54 am

kekgeek wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 1:13 am Draft: A-
Trading for Dilly: A: Got the best bucket getter in the draft, yes we gave up future assets but that 31 pick was going to be frozen anyways after the year. I like that we used one of our few assets to get a promising player.

Drafting TSJ: A My favorite player in that range, gets to the line, 2nd best bucket getter in the draft, defends well. Age (What is a massive concern) and his trial dropped him but I love the pick

Trading 37 and Moore to fall back in the draft: D Obviously a Glen Taylor decision, saved him money getting rid of Moore salary. I get it but man it stinks

Trading our late 50s pick to get cash and a heavily protect swap: F, I get it again that Glen loves his cash but no reason to not take a flyer for a 2-way guy. Yes are these moves more than likely going to effect the Wolves, no but man it would of been nice to take a flyer when the wolves are in cap help going forward and we need to add cheap talent. Just unacceptable in my opinion. Would of been ok with a future 2nd but, whatever.


Free Agency: C
Losing Morris, Kyle: D+, it stinks to lose a rotation piece in Morris for the same amount of money. I get it he wanted more of a role and he will get in in Phx but still stinks to lose Monte. I get losing Kyle and get why Glen didn't want to pay 30 more million in lux tax. But I think Kyle on the court loss is bigger than most people are thinking.

Adding Ingles : A: favorite min guy available. Just a solid add overall
Adding Dozier: C-: Not sure he is an NBA player any more but I will trust TC
Signing Garza: A: Cheap "long reliever/utillty man" for the regular season, can't complain about adding Garza back, end of the bench guys who work hard and have an NBA skill matter and Garza has that, good for him.


Overall: B+: Did the wolves improve. Hard question to answer. I think the upside in the short term and long term went up. I think the room for error is a lot smaller this year. I think losing our 8th, 9th and 10th man really eliminates surviving a ton of injury variance. But I like what we did with the little movability we did. I actually think TC offseason increased the upside of this team more than anything he could realistically do, now I think the odds that upside is reached this season is low but it is there what he gets credit fof

Great analysis, kek. I agree completely. As usual our grades are pretty much aligned. I too love the Garza signing and reading your post has me raising TC’s free agency grade from C- to C.

I agree that losing Kyle Anderson is a big deal. But unlike Wendell Moore, the financial and transactional impact of matching the Warriors’ offer for Kyle would not have been trivial. The biggest factor was the fact that Kyle’s deal was multi year and it would have been risky to add significant salary beyond next season when we risk being a repeat 2nd apron team. Losing Morris was a big loss, but understandable after TC publicly (and honestly) declared that he expected Morris to play next season. Losing Morris was a risk associated with trading up into the lottery for a PG. But it was a risk worth taking in my view.

The entire second round had Glen Taylor’s finger prints all over it. It was reminiscent of drafts under prior Wolves regimes. That entire string of 2nd round transactions did not look anything like what we’ve seen from Tim Connelly. Everything else he’s done here so far has brought clear unmistakable value to the team. Multiple deals to land Minott. Trading up for Miller in the second round. Trading DLO for Conley, NAW and three 2nd round picks. Trading a 12 year old for the 8th pick. Even the trade I hated brought back a multi-season defensive player of the year. What happened in the second round this year fuels my desire to see Lore/A-Rod prevail in the pending ownership dispute with Glen.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 9:37 am

Sundog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:48 am On the one hand, I truly appreciate all the work and thought that’s gone into some of these posts, it’s fun to read what you’re thinking.

On the other, I’m finding it to be a little quirky to hear the hand-wringing about not selecting yet another rookie this year in the second round, or over the 14th guy with a partial guaranteed contract. Finch and his staff already have to integrate 2 new rookies and essentially a third rookie in Clark into the team, as well as see if either Miller or Minott can provide meaningful production this year. That’s certainly enough work for them, and I wouldn’t want their focus diluted by adding another rookie to that mix.

Dozier seems to be a no stress, low cost placeholder until they see what’s left of the vet minimum pool of free agents. Maybe he’s the best of that vet minimum pool, but don’t get too attached or too worried if he’s not.

As for not resigning either Morris or Kyle… yes, we’ll miss both of them at some point this year. But neither were going to produce anything close to the value of their cost to this luxury taxed team. For example, Kyle would have cost something like $30million this year (contract plus tax) and there’s simply no way he was going to play to that value. I’m sure the Wolves tried to resign him at a significant discount that better matched his cost to value ratio (I’m certain Gupta has a massive excel spreadsheet with weirdly complex formulas), but he made a different choice for he and his family. To ding Connelly for that seems off base to me, like we’re looking for something to complain about after an unexpected western conference finals run.

As I noted, I’m fine essentially swapping Slo Mo for Ingles. Losing Morris was a bigger deal, but I’m ok losing him too and I suspect TC knew drafting Dilly and publicly saying he was going to play would make Morris’s return unlikely. But TC says he wanted both back and he apparently tried. So my grade was based on what TC wanted. He prioritized bringing both back and failed. There are good reasons for losing them, but his grade have to be measured against his own goals. Understandably, the vet minimum wasn’t going to be enough to get a decent veteran backup PG so he was left with Dozier who couldn’t even land an end of bench slot in the NBA last season. Given those facts, I’d say a C (average) is a fair grade.

It’s not hand wringing to suggest that the Wolves made poor use of the #37 pick. That’s a valuable pick and using it to save the trivial amount of money associated with Moore’s contract deserves criticism. It smacks of Glen Taylor and reminds me when the Wolves sold the 27th pick that they could have used to select Rudy Gobert. It’s not a matter of integrating another rookie. It’s about adding more young PG talent to the organization to compete for a position that currently very thin. The PGs I had in mind were college juniors and seniors with lots of minutes and highly productive stats. While they don’t have the same upside as Dilly they all probably have higher rookie floors, which would be valuable for a team that has no PGs with NBA experience behind the 37 year old Mike Conley. If the pick doesn’t end up playing any meaningful minutes for the Wolves, that pick can push Dilly and remain as a valuable young asset for the further or for a trade down the road. We have an open 2-way slot. There were also other ways to more productively use the value of the #37 pick, including trading it for future 2nd round picks. I still gave TC an A- overall for the draft, but I decided not to put my head in the sand and ignore poor 2nd round decisions that reminded me of prior regimes smeared with Glen Taylor’s finger prints.

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 2:59 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 9:37 am

Sundog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:48 am On the one hand, I truly appreciate all the work and thought that’s gone into some of these posts, it’s fun to read what you’re thinking.

On the other, I’m finding it to be a little quirky to hear the hand-wringing about not selecting yet another rookie this year in the second round, or over the 14th guy with a partial guaranteed contract. Finch and his staff already have to integrate 2 new rookies and essentially a third rookie in Clark into the team, as well as see if either Miller or Minott can provide meaningful production this year. That’s certainly enough work for them, and I wouldn’t want their focus diluted by adding another rookie to that mix.

Dozier seems to be a no stress, low cost placeholder until they see what’s left of the vet minimum pool of free agents. Maybe he’s the best of that vet minimum pool, but don’t get too attached or too worried if he’s not.

As for not resigning either Morris or Kyle… yes, we’ll miss both of them at some point this year. But neither were going to produce anything close to the value of their cost to this luxury taxed team. For example, Kyle would have cost something like $30million this year (contract plus tax) and there’s simply no way he was going to play to that value. I’m sure the Wolves tried to resign him at a significant discount that better matched his cost to value ratio (I’m certain Gupta has a massive excel spreadsheet with weirdly complex formulas), but he made a different choice for he and his family. To ding Connelly for that seems off base to me, like we’re looking for something to complain about after an unexpected western conference finals run.

As I noted, I’m fine essentially swapping Slo Mo for Ingles. Losing Morris was a bigger deal, but I’m ok losing him too and I suspect TC knew drafting Dilly and publicly saying he was going to play would make Morris’s return unlikely. But TC says he wanted both back and he apparently tried. So my grade was based on what TC wanted. He prioritized bringing both back and failed. There are good reasons for losing them, but his grade have to be measured against his own goals. Understandably, the vet minimum wasn’t going to be enough to get a decent veteran backup PG so he was left with Dozier who couldn’t even land an end of bench slot in the NBA last season. Given those facts, I’d say a C (average) is a fair grade.

It’s not hand wringing to suggest that the Wolves made poor use of the #37 pick. That’s a valuable pick and using it to save the trivial amount of money associated with Moore’s contract deserves criticism. It smacks of Glen Taylor and reminds me when the Wolves sold the 27th pick that they could have used to select Rudy Gobert. It’s not a matter of integrating another rookie. It’s about adding more young PG talent to the organization to compete for a position that currently very thin. The PGs I had in mind were college juniors and seniors with lots of minutes and highly productive stats. While they don’t have the same upside as Dilly they all probably have higher rookie floors, which would be valuable for a team that has no PGs with NBA experience behind the 37 year old Mike Conley. If the pick doesn’t end up playing any meaningful minutes for the Wolves, that pick can push Dilly and remain as a valuable young asset for the further or for a trade down the road. We have an open 2-way slot. There were also other ways to more productively use the value of the #37 pick, including trading it for future 2nd round picks. I still gave TC an A- overall for the draft, but I decided not to put my head in the sand and ignore poor 2nd round decisions that reminded me of prior regimes smeared with Glen Taylor’s finger prints.

I'm with Sundog. We have a half dozen NBA unproven young guys already (Dilly, Shannon, Minott, Miller, Clark, Nix, Garza). TC added 30 million damn near to the lux tax payment by the drafting of Dilly. Not having a flier in the second round at this point is a no brainer. Let Glen / Arod/Lore save some money. The odds of that 37th pick with the dumping of Moores salary making a difference is very small. Never mind the even ability to have a chance to succeed. He would have to outperform all the higher picked more proven players first (still haven't played meaningful minutes yet) just to get a chance.

Like I said we have a ton of guys already which we don't really know much about. Adding a later flier or roster spot which will likely never play? I don't care. The overall net is huge by adding a ton of salary with Dilly with a a top 8 pick. The big picture matters most. They got Dilly and Shannon. You don't need to draft more guys they probably don't really even like that much.