Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:37 pm**

kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:17 am
TheFuture wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:58 am
WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:50 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we didn't win with him, I don't think it would bother some of you guys. Don't overvalue character. Unless one of his baby moms is your sister, what he does in his private time shouldn't bother you til it directly affects the team and it hasn't.

A whipping boy is a whipping boy if you choose to make him one. You've chosen to make Ant that.
Yeah, I agree. He can have 30 kids this year for all I care. Not my $, not my life, not my morals. He's not my brother or family, he's not my friend, and like you said - it isn't with or to my sister/family/friend.

He is a basketball player for a team I watch for my entertainment. And he is entertaining and a good player on the court, and by all accounts a good teammate who wants to be here and bring success to MN. He hasn't shown to be slowing down in that regard. I don't give two shits about how he runs his life off the court.
To go along with this only reason this is a story is because Ant sex life got public. (Some of that is his fault) but I have a friend from high school that had a one night stand with Rubio the first time he was on the team. And she never talked to Rubio again. (I guess I should say she was 24 when they hooked up, haha) Professional athletes fuck. I mean shit the lakers coach is on record saying that girls would have to sign an NDA before having sex.

Magic Johnson won a championship having a ton of sex, so was wilt, Tony Parker cheated on his wife, Karl Malone had relations with a minor, Jason Kidd beat his wife, Kobe sexual assaulted a woman (allegedly). Rick Brunson accused of sexual Assualt multiple times, Rosas cheated on his wife, COY favorite Udoka cheated on his wife. Larry Bird is apparently a dead beat dad.

These people are not like us. They are not role models. But let’s not act like what Ant is doing in his free time is not common with 98% of NBA players. I mean Lebron James has a scam of a HS that not a single person in 8th grade is at proficiency standards in Ohio, not a single one, Lebron has drank wine on the bench when not playing, gave his kids alcohol as a minor, (not that I really care) his mom allegedly had sex with Dolante West. Anthony Davis has a hissy fit and refused to play at the end of his pelicans career.

These are not good humans. Ant, Naw, Jaden and Rudy all had kids last year and I believe none of them are married.

Some fair points, Kek, by you, WW and Future. But this is a debate forum so I will rebut. I'm not generally the morals police, and I recognize that many NBA players have out of wedlock (or relationship) sex. But Ant seems to be in a completely different category. Sure, he was one of at least 4 TWolves fathering children last night, but I am not aware that NAW, Jaden or Rudy fathered children outside of their committed relationship...that's a big difference in my mind. And there are reports that Ant has three other baby mommas in addition to his "girlfriend". I am not an expert in this area, but I frankly can't name one current NBA player who has even fathered two out of wedlock. We want Ant to lead the league in production, but not in this category!

But that's not the real reason he is my current whipping boy. I appreciate there are fans here who love him and want to defend him...I recognize his endearing childlike personality also, and cheer as loudly as anyone when he does something spectacular. But for those who are uncomfortable with me making him my whipping boy last night, let me ask is you saw what I saw last night.

1) Too many times I saw possessions where nobody but Ant touched the ball, or where he would give it up with 6 or 7 seconds left on the clock with no time to initiate an offense. Granted, he did have a couple nice possessions late in the 4th quarter where despite ball hogging for 15 seconds or so, he passed out of a double team and got an assist. But as Van Gundy pointed out, he didn't get his first assist until late in the 4th quarter despite being ball dominant.

2) I hated seeing him chumming it up with his Olympic Hall of Fame teammates during free throws and stoppages. They on the other hand seemed more focused on the game than on socializing with Ant.

3) I blamed him for several of the 5 on 4 fast break baskets the Lakers got. Several teams I watched him whining to the refs about a no call with his palms turned up as the other 9 players streaked down the court. This used to piss us off about KAT, but he mostly grew out of it. Let's hope Ant does too.

4) And expanding on the defensive aspect, Ant is considered a terrific on ball defender. I agree...he can be special. But I can't remember one moment last night where I thought "Wow, nice defensive segment Ant!". I remember moments when I marveled at defensive things that NAW, DiVo, Jaden and Rudy did (and even one time when I noticed some good defensive footwork by Naz!), but Ant was invisible to me on defense last night. No steals, no deflections, no great defensive stops. That's not lack of talent...that's someone who decided not to show up on the defensive end in the first game of the year.

He's still our biggest hope, but I see all four of these as signs of not being a good teammate...and I usually consider Ant a food teammate. I'll continue to cheer for him because he is by far the best player on my favorite team. But I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't recognize some concerning aspects of his personality and style of play.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 2:26 pm**

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:05 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:22 am
thedoper wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 12:05 am

Yeah it was easy to appreciate his bravado but its teetering on the edge of delusion lacking character. He clearly had a rough history and is resilient but Im not sure how he will handle superstardom. Im a bit concerned too.
I thought I might be alone on this island, so I'm happy to have some company on the "concerned about Ant" train. Well, not entirely happy. Is Ant a remarkably talented basketball player? Of course...he deserves most of the national accolades he is getting. But it's his character that concerns me. I listened to Brit Robson raving about Ant's character on Dane Moore's recent pod, and I said out loud "What???". Not only the continuing dalliances with various women, there are also the occasional unfortunate tweets that he has to walk back. But his endearing childlike personality seems to save him over and over again. Not with me...I have real concerns that someone like Ant has the type of character to lead a team to a championship.

The word I used last year when I expressed my concerns was "gravitas". The great ones have it, and Ant doesn't. At least not yet. I found myself contrasting Ant's on-court behavior last night with two HOFers on the court with him...Davis and LeBron. They are all business out there and focused on one thing...winning. (Well, other than LeBron's need to get his son on the court with him for a couple minutes, but I'm not going to rip a dedicated dad). In contrast, Ant seems more concerned with his fame and rubbing shoulders with great ones than playing winning basketball. Did you see him taking every opportunity to chat during the game with his Olympic teammates? My favorite moment was when Davis got in his face. It was almost like Brow was saying "Hey, we were teammates and buddies last summer, but we are mortal enemies right now". That's the attitude I want from Ant. But my fear is he is much more into the NBA lifestyle...banging chicks and hobnobbing with true superstars...than reaching his enormous potential.

And how does Ant seem to think he is going to get to same level as a James and a Davis? Seemingly by playing lax defense and being a complete ball hog on offense. and whining to the refs every time he didn't get a foul call. Where was the beautiful ball movement and sharing we saw in preseason? Instead we saw Ant using up 3/4 of the shot clock dribbling while his teammates stood around. There was a bright spot late in the 4th quarter when Ant started out 3 consecutive possessions by ball stopping with me yelling at the screen, but then drawing the double team and finding an open man. But Reddick (who I think may end up being a very good coach) reacted by telling his guys not to double team.

Every year this board has a whipping boy. Barrea, Nowell, DLo...just three of the suspects. But it's a lot more serious when the whipping boy is the guy who should be by far our most valuable player. Fortunately this team has several veterans with gravitas...Conley, Randle, Gobert, even Ingles. Whether they get in Ant's face and teach him how to be a winner, and whether he chooses to listen to them, might be the key to this team's ceiling this year.

What's it gonna be, Ant?
I remember my main concern with Ant in the draft was whether he truly loved the game and had the competitive zeal to be great. I remember wondering whether he would even take the game seriously enough. That concern faded with me as Ant improved substantially year to year. As a result, I’ve pushed back a bit on some of Cool’s previous expressions of concern about Ant’s character. But now I’m beginning to have some concerns that take me back to my qualms about him in the draft.

I generally don’t worry much about how many women these guys sleep with. That’s a given for so many of them. It’s the NBA culture. I don’t like it, but I accept it. What troubles me about Ant is how irresponsible he’s been in his prurient pursuits as he has obviously failed to use protection, which has lead to multiple children and has exposed him to health risks that even with modern meds could be physically devastating. Irresponsible sexual exploits didn’t stop Wilt of Magic from becoming among the greatest players to ever play, but in Magic’s case it prematurely ended his career and could have prematurely ended his life. Moreover, it suggests a failure to take serious things seriously and a profound lack of maturity and responsibility. When you pair what we’re learning about him in his private life with some of what we see on the court, we begin to see the picture of a great talent without the seriousness, maturity and gravitas to become a truly great player.

I think Ant needs a serious intervention by some vets on this team. Randle, Rudy and Conley need to take him aside some evening in someone’s home and berate him with a level of intensity that gets his attention. They need to tell him he’s not a great player as evidenced by his failure to carry the team against Dallas and more recently the way he played last night. They need to tell him he’s way too full of himself relative to what he’s actually accomplished. They need to challenge him to take the game, his team and life more seriously. Most of all, they need to tell him to grow up and take responsibility for himself and those around him including his teammates and his team. He’s nowhere close to being an MJ, Kobe, Dwayne Wade, LeBron, or Steph Curry and he won’t be until he grows up and gets serious about life and his profession as an NBA basketball player.

In my view, the next and final step in Ant’s growth will require that sort of veteran intervention. Otherwise, I fear he’ll end up as another great talent who leaves behind a ton of unfulfilled promise.

Yeah, well said. I have no doubt he will be an all star player for many years. Maybe not as many as he should, but he's going to be quite accomplished as a player. My perspective comes from that of wanting a championship and having a parade. He gives us a chance we haven't had before, save for the Cassell and Spree year. So when I'm critical of him it's because I see that chance possibly flickering before fading away. I attended games in the Metrodome. I've invested a ton of time and money in the pursuit of the ultimate goal. It's just as much my team as it is Ant's. And I don't want him to fuck it up.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:44 pm**

FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:37 pm
kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:17 am
TheFuture wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:58 am

I am not an expert in this area, but I frankly can't name one current NBA player who has even fathered two out of wedlock.
I'm pretty sure a quick cursory search would provide you with a solid list of players.

[Note: I'm definitely in the camp that judges basketball players as basketball players. There's no way to know what any of these guys are like in real life... so why even make assumptions. Some things bother me more than others though. Knocking up a bunch of women with his prolific semen escapades... meh, not ideal, but ok, I guess. Not supporting those children would be another issue entirely and put him in the Karl Malone or Royce White crowd.]

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:12 pm**

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:44 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:37 pm
kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:17 am

I am not an expert in this area, but I frankly can't name one current NBA player who has even fathered two out of wedlock.
I'm pretty sure a quick cursory search would provide you with a solid list of players.

[Note: I'm definitely in the camp that judges basketball players as basketball players. There's no way to know what any of these guys are like in real life... so why even make assumptions. Some things bother me more than others though. Knocking up a bunch of women with his prolific semen escapades... meh, not ideal, but ok, I guess. Not supporting those children would be another issue entirely and put him in the Karl Malone or Royce White crowd.]
Ha, I’m having a relatively slow day, so I actually did that cursory search. Couldn’t come up with any current NBA player who has been more productive in this area in the last year than our young Ant.

I think the marketing department might be missing a big angle. We’re promoting having the defensive player of the year, the 6th man of the year, and the coach of the year. Why aren’t they promoting the FOY (father of the year)?

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 7:24 pm**

FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:12 pm
AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:44 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:37 pm

I'm pretty sure a quick cursory search would provide you with a solid list of players.

[Note: I'm definitely in the camp that judges basketball players as basketball players. There's no way to know what any of these guys are like in real life... so why even make assumptions. Some things bother me more than others though. Knocking up a bunch of women with his prolific semen escapades... meh, not ideal, but ok, I guess. Not supporting those children would be another issue entirely and put him in the Karl Malone or Royce White crowd.]
Ha, I’m having a relatively slow day, so I actually did that cursory search. Couldn’t come up with any current NBA player who has been more productive in this area in the last year than our young Ant.

I think the marketing department might be missing a big angle. We’re promoting having the defensive player of the year, the 6th man of the year, and the coach of the year. Why aren’t they promoting the FOY (father of the year)?
Jalen Green got 3 girls pregnant last year. PJ Washington has multiple baby mamas, Zion has multiple. Brandon Ingram baby mama is pregnant with Anfrenee Simon kid.

HOFers like: Pippen, Malone, Dwight Howard, MJ, Dominque Wilkins have multiple baby mamas

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 8:23 pm**

kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 7:24 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:12 pm
AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:44 pm

Ha, I’m having a relatively slow day, so I actually did that cursory search. Couldn’t come up with any current NBA player who has been more productive in this area in the last year than our young Ant.

I think the marketing department might be missing a big angle. We’re promoting having the defensive player of the year, the 6th man of the year, and the coach of the year. Why aren’t they promoting the FOY (father of the year)?
Jalen Green got 3 girls pregnant last year. PJ Washington has multiple baby mamas, Zion has multiple. Brandon Ingram baby mama is pregnant with Anfrenee Simon kid.

HOFers like: Pippen, Malone, Dwight Howard, MJ, Dominque Wilkins have multiple baby mamas
Yeah, prominent men throughout history that may have done a lot of good things professionally (in athletics, politics, business, etc.) were often pretty undisciplined with their relationships and sex lives. We could make a loooooooong list of historical figures that did great things for humanity, yet were terrible husbands and often terrible fathers as well.

The "father" part is what probably bothers me a little bit in all of these cases. While I'm sure however many kids Ant ultimately has will be taken care of financially, no amount of money can replace a Dad that is present and involved with their kid's life. I find it hard to believe Ant will be able to juggle that responsibility across all three (or four or five or...) biological mothers.

I'm not a big LeBron fan, but he seems to have gotten the Dad part right.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:23 pm**

kekgeek wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 7:24 pm
FNG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 6:12 pm
AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 5:44 pm

Ha, I’m having a relatively slow day, so I actually did that cursory search. Couldn’t come up with any current NBA player who has been more productive in this area in the last year than our young Ant.

I think the marketing department might be missing a big angle. We’re promoting having the defensive player of the year, the 6th man of the year, and the coach of the year. Why aren’t they promoting the FOY (father of the year)?
Jalen Green got 3 girls pregnant last year. PJ Washington has multiple baby mamas, Zion has multiple. Brandon Ingram baby mama is pregnant with Anfrenee Simon kid.

HOFers like: Pippen, Malone, Dwight Howard, MJ, Dominque Wilkins have multiple baby mamas
Sounds like Jalen is going to be Ant's main competition, but Ant is still the league leader with his 4. I'm confident Ant can hold him off and win the FOY award.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:44 pm**

I wonder if Calumet Farm would be willing to let Ant stand stud there during the offseason. At least that's what we will tell Ant is happening, when in all actuality they will return him to us the following season as a gelding. That would be the best thing for all concerned.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:08 pm**

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:44 pm I wonder if Calumet Farm would be willing to let Ant stand stud there during the offseason. At least that's what we will tell Ant is happening, when in all actuality they will return him to us the following season as a gelding. That would be the best thing for all concerned.

FNG! I thought at least you would have appreciated this post.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:15 pm**

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2024 6:08 pm
Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:44 pm I wonder if Calumet Farm would be willing to let Ant stand stud there during the offseason. At least that's what we will tell Ant is happening, when in all actuality they will return him to us the following season as a gelding. That would be the best thing for all concerned.
FNG! I thought at least you would have appreciated this post.
[/quote

Ha, yeah I loved it…very clever! I just thought I was piling on our boy Ant too much, so I elected to back off a little.

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