Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:I know the OL is horrible. I think it can be fixed faster then people expect if you have the right staff. I look at the Patriots and Packers as examples of teams that plug and play guys that are not top picks.

I also love the multi TE sets. It really screws with todays teams that play a lot of nickel. If you can throw out 2 TE's that are okay blockers and can line up outside you just can really make matchup problems for a defense. If Gronk didn't get hurt the Pats would have been so much tougher than they already were.

Having HOF QBs makes everybody look good. I'm not joking either some of the greatness of a guy like Farve or Brady or Rodger is Manning was they made WRs and lineman a little better than they were. I'm not saying the coaching staffs and front offices don't deserve credit because they clearly do but I want to give deserved credit to those great QBs also.

Honestly I don't think we know exactly how good Bradford is. After this last season I think many here would feel comfortable with someone saying he is a good QB. We really weren't sure but he has a nice body of work especially last year under about as bad of circumstances as you can imagine. What Teddy was able to do in his short career was to be able to make some plays and do enough good things often with a not very good supporting cast. If he was able to cut loose and chuck the ball...he would have made even more plays and taken advantage of what he had. Bradford clearly looks like the better player but he is also more of a pocket guy even though he is a good enough athlete to move around he doesn't seem to do it much. In some ways that's good because he is predictable to block for and protect. He also is more likely to just get rid of the ball and do it more quickly.

I do think it's possible that the line can be fixed it's hard to be too optimistic right now. If they can get a LT that's just solid (even relatively healthy Kalil level player) that would help a lot. Anything more than that would be a huge boast.

I think the other questions we have to ask is what isntheboffensive system going to look like? Will that help the oline? Will that help the QB and or the skill position players? Do some of the oline players still on the roster fit that system well? There are good offensive lineman that play much better in certain systems and you see teams pass on them (especially the older vets) when they are available because they don't fit the system. Maybe the guys they have now will work in a little different system. We will see.

Good call on the QB, but wasn't Rodgers a guy that held the ball longer than anyone? Seems like a guy that always has all day to throw. Brady seems to make his reads and just get rid of it.

bleedspeed177 wrote:Good call on the QB, but wasn't Rodgers a guy that held the ball longer than anyone? Seems like a guy that always has all day to throw. Brady seems to make his reads and just get rid of it.

Well didn't Teddy hold the ball as long as anyone a year ago or something? :) Rodgers is like the best of all worlds. He can pick a team apart and he can extend a play (terrific on the run) AND oh yeah he has a big arm. No doubt for years it's been amazing the Packers have been able to do what they do and their oline has been decimated nearly every year including a couple years they won the freaking Super Bowl.

That is true about Teddy, but it was hi having no idea what to do with it. Rodgers kills the blitz so you better get to him with 4 or he will rip your secondary a part.

Looking at centers.
http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-centers

RANK PLAYER SCHOOL MEASURABLES
1 Pat Elflein Ohio State 6' 3", 300 lbs.
2 Ethan Pocic LSU 6' 7", 302 lbs.
3 Tyler Orlosky West Virginia 6' 4", 296 lbs.
4 Kyle Fuller Baylor 6' 5", 315 lbs.
5 Jon Toth Kentucky 6' 5", 310 lbs.

I will take any, but Elflein looks perfect type fo guy I would want.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/pat-elflein?id=2557879

bleedspeed177 wrote:That is true about Teddy, but it was hi having no idea what to do with it. Rodgers kills the blitz so you better get to him with 4 or he will rip your secondary a part.

Looking at centers.
http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-centers

RANK PLAYER SCHOOL MEASURABLES
1 Pat Elflein Ohio State 6' 3", 300 lbs.
2 Ethan Pocic LSU 6' 7", 302 lbs.
3 Tyler Orlosky West Virginia 6' 4", 296 lbs.
4 Kyle Fuller Baylor 6' 5", 315 lbs.
5 Jon Toth Kentucky 6' 5", 310 lbs.

I will take any.

I'm not saying Easton or Kerin are the answer but both guys were top college centers. Both guys went undrafted. It's a weird position in a way. Most teams want a bigger/more athletic guy but sometimes the guys that were able to get it done in college get it done at the next level too. I'm not against drafting a center but it's probably the lowest on my priority list of the oline. If you can draft a good one that's good though obviously.

Also with Teddy there was plenty of times he was pretty much running for his life. It's not easy to make quick decisions when your about to get pummeled. That doesn't excuse everything (doesnt have the big arm and played it too safe) but that was a factor. If the WRs hadn't been such a pleasant surprise this year it would have been a bit of a shame Mike Wallace left because Bradford had enough of an arm to hit him for some big plays. He was a terrific fit for Flacco so it worked out well for everyone...assuming Treadwell turns out to be a worthwhile receiver.

I would draft Tackles first and then look at Center. We actually have guards in making in Beavers and Clemmings. (god help us) I like that Elflein kid. Lockerroom work ethic type. Basically a leader of the line that also plays guard if needed.

Top Tackles.
http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-offensive-tackle

RANK PLAYER SCHOOL MEASURABLES
1 Cam Robinson Alabama 6' 6", 327 lbs.
2 Ryan Ramczyk Wisconsin 6' 6", 314 lbs.
3 Taylor Moton W Michigan 6' 5", 330 lbs.
4 Garett Bolles Utah 6' 5", 300 lbs.
5 Forrest Lamp W Kentucky 6' 4", 305 lbs.
6 Roderick Johnson Florida State 6' 7", 311 lbs.
7 Antonio Garcia Troy 6' 6", 293 lbs.
8 Avery Gennessy Texas A&M 6' 5", 315 lbs.
9 Chad Wheeler USC 6' 6", 310 lbs.
10 Julien Davenport Bucknell 6' 7", 310 lbs.


I like Roderick Johnson

OVERVIEW
It appears Florida State has a tight grip on the ACC's award for the top offensive lineman. First, Cam Erving won the award in 2013 and 2014 before being picked in the first round of the 2015 NFL Draft by Cleveland. The past two years, Johnson has received the Jacobs Blocking Trophy from league coaches because of his work at left tackle for the Seminoles. The two-time first-team All-ACC pick has started every game on the blind side since midway through the 2014 season, when he garnered Freshman All-American honors for his play.
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Exceptionally long with well-proportioned frame. Looks the part. Has telephone poles for arms. Unfurls his length and consistently jabs into defenders with maximum arm extension. Punch can be very disruptive for edge rushers who have to alter their rush plans. Plus power as a run blocker. Can finish with authority once he latches into the defender's frame and gets momentum churned up. Shows ability to make late adjustments in space. Gathers weight and focuses power into opponent at point of attack. Massive wingspan can buy him time to recover against sudden changes of direction. Plays with good awareness. Sees blitzers lurking and is ready to respond. Good transition speed to slide from his stance. Can snap and catch E/Ts. Plays with a very stiff outside hand in pass protection.
WEAKNESSES High-cut waist bender and leaner who is constantly playing with his weight way out in front of his feet. Plays with an alarming lack of body control and balance. Weight is rarely centered. Big feet get tripped up too often. Pass slides lack proper base width and control. Allows his feet to cross over causing regrettable change of direction attempts against inside counters. Hands and feet are in disharmony and need to get synced. Straight-legged into contact. Always in a race to get to the edge in pass pro causing him to panic and lunge. Takes questionable angles when attempting to seal. Power seems to be an issue with redirect blocks. Has athletic traits but doesn't always manifest itself in play. Sluggish with lateral movement.
SOURCES TELL US "He should have gone back, but I think he's interesting because I still think he is growing into his body. He will probably always have some balance issues because he's always going to be a leaner. If he can improve his body control with that length? That could be really interesting." - AFC Director of College Scouting
NFL COMPARISON Morgan Moses
BOTTOM LINE Long-limbed left tackle who has the physical traits that teams want from their blind-side protector, but who is missing some of the body control and balance that is needed to succeed at his position. Despite his balance inconsistencies, Johnson can be a powerful run blocker when he gets defenders framed up. Teams will have to decide if they want to play him on the left or right side, but an offensive line coach will need to try and correct issues with his pass sets and his footwork before he gets his shot.

COMBINE WEEK

Here are 5 players the Vikings should be watching at the combine according to ESPN.

Five players the Vikings could focus on at the combine:

Zach Banner (tackle), USC: The Vikings could look at tackles like Wisconsin's Ryan Ramczyk or Alabama's Cam Robinson, too, but those players might be off the board by the time Minnesota makes its first pick in the second round of the draft. Absent a Rick Spielman trade back into the first round, a player like Banner could be more realistic for the Vikings. He certainly has the size for the position, at 6-foot-8 and 373 pounds, though he might be better as a Phil Loadholt-type road grader on the right side than he would be on the left.

Forrest Lamp (guard), Western Kentucky: Only 6-foot-4, Lamp is seen more as a guard than a tackle in the NFL, but he might be one of the best guards on the board, thanks to his nimble feet and strong work ethic. His frame might be too small for him to play tackle in the NFL -- you'll hear the dreaded arm-length question attached to his name -- but the Vikings could use help at guard after releasing Brandon Fusco, as well.


Antonio Garcia (tackle), Troy: He'll likely have to put on some mass to succeed in the NFL, after playing between 280 and 290 pounds in college, but he's a former high school basketball player with great footwork. He's not the type of player you'd expect to step in and protect Sam Bradford's blind side on day one, but his combination of size (6-foot-6) and quickness will attract attention from teams that believe they can develop him into a solid NFL starter.

Alvin Kamara (running back), Tennessee: His stock is on the rise, and while he doesn't have breakaway speed, he's got good quickness and strength to pick up decent chunks of yardage. He also would be an asset in the passing game, which should become even more important as Pat Shurmur develops his offense in Minnesota. Kamara caught 40 passes for 392 yards and four touchdowns at Tennessee last year. In a deep running back class, he's one of the players who could make sense for the Vikings.

Jaleel Johnson (defensive tackle), Iowa: The 6-foot-4 Johnson attracted plenty of attention with an impressive showing at the Senior Bowl, and his first step will help him get an edge on blockers and penetrate into the backfield. He's probably not going to be a stout run defender in the NFL, but the Vikings could use help at 3-technique tackle, where they could release Floyd instead of keeping him on his fifth-year option. Tom Johnson will be 33 before the start of the season, and the addition of another interior rusher could make sense for a team that always seems to be on the lookout for players who can get after the quarterback.

http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/22016/vikings-should-focus-on-offensive-line-running-back-at-combine

Looking at that Banner. I am not really interested in him. Seems like a huge limitation.

NFL Draft Profile
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/zach-banner?id=2557908

ESPN Insider Profile
Overall Football Traits
Production 2
Height-Weight-Speed 2
Durability 4
Intangibles 2

1 = EXCEPTIONAL2 = ABOVE AVERAGE3 = AVERAGE4 = BELOW AVERAGE5 = MARGINAL

Offensive Tackle Specific Traits

Pass Protection 4 Massive right tackle who is difficult to get around. Long arms and heavy hands. Shows good patience for the most part. Has no trouble anchoring when set properly prior to initial contact. Natural knee bender but slower feet in set. Has trouble versus speed rushers off the edge. Quick outside-in moves also give him trouble.

Run Blocking 2 Road grading type with a massive frame and good overall strength. When he is in position and makes good initial contact, he has the lower-body strength to drive defenders off the line of scrimmage. Also has good initial pop to jar defenders. Runs relatively well as a second-level run blocker for his size. Will struggle at times on blocks that require great initial quickness to cross the defenders face.

Awareness 2 Good experience. Adequate timing on combo blocks. Above average feel for games (stunts, twists, blitzes, etc.).

Toughness 3 Flashes a mean streak but not as consistently nasty as he could be. Inconsistent finisher in run game. Stamina is an issue, as well. Typically leaves the field to rest for a series or two per game.

Looking at possible DT in the draft makes me think...

How good do people think Sharrif Floyd is? I tend to think he is a good player (sorta vague descriptor on purpose) and turns 25 in May so he is still young. He has a problem staying healthy and right now has a 6.7 million dollar cap hit which seems like too much to pay him at this point (that's what Linval makes). I really don't know what a fair longer term conract would be for him if they went that route which could reduce that cap number if Floyd and the team could agree on something. They have to cut him before June 1 if they want to let him go and pay nothing.