Wolves 2017 Draft Thread

[Lipoli390]

I try to forget Flip's decision to pass on McCollum in favor of trading down for Bazz. I do remember that Rodney Cool Dangerfield was with me on that at the time. :). I confronted Flip on his decision. He said he liked CJ a lot, but made his decision for three reasons: concerns about CJ's foot, wanting to make sure we got Gorgui, and Flip's high opinion of Bazz. He admitted to me that he wasn't sure Gorgui would be gone by our 27th pick, but he wanted to make sure he got Gorgui -- his biggest reason for trading down. I mentioned Gobert as my alternative if Gorgui had already been taken by our 27th pick. Flip's response was just that he didn't think much of Gorbert, without providing any details. Flip then went on to rave about Bazz for at least a full minute.

I was really high on Gorgui at the time and that was the reason I cut Flip some slack on his decision to trade down. But I would have been comfortable with Gobert at the time -- although I'll admit I didn't think he'd be this good.

[kekgeek]

I try to forget Flip's decision to pass on McCollum in favor of trading down for Bazz. I do remember that Rodney Cool Dangerfield was with me on that at the time. :). I confronted Flip on his decision. He said he liked CJ a lot, but made his decision for three reasons: concerns about CJ's foot, wanting to make sure we got Gorgui, and Flip's high opinion of Bazz. He admitted to me that he wasn't sure Gorgui would be gone by our 27th pick, but he wanted to make sure he got Gorgui -- his biggest reason for trading down. I mentioned Gobert as my alternative if Gorgui had already been taken by our 27th pick. Flip's response was just that he didn't think much of Gorbert, without providing any details. Flip then went on to rave about Bazz for at least a full minute.

I was really high on Gorgui at the time and that was the reason I cut Flip some slack on his decision to trade down. But I would have been comfortable with Gobert at the time -- although I'll admit I didn't think he'd be this good.

Could some of the decision be based on where the wolves were as a franchise. We needed to make the playoffs with k love or we lose him. Ricky and Pek both looked like possible cornerstones still and AK47 hadn't opted out yet, also had cap space (signed Kmart). It looked like a playoff team. So we take 2 more "sure" things at the time in gorgui and bazz. Instead of taking a guy in McCollum coming off a foot injury (missed 1st six weeks of the season) and 2 raw players in Giannis and Gobert.

Not saying that is a great strategy.

[Lipoli390]

I try to forget Flip's decision to pass on McCollum in favor of trading down for Bazz. I do remember that Rodney Cool Dangerfield was with me on that at the time. :). I confronted Flip on his decision. He said he liked CJ a lot, but made his decision for three reasons: concerns about CJ's foot, wanting to make sure we got Gorgui, and Flip's high opinion of Bazz. He admitted to me that he wasn't sure Gorgui would be gone by our 27th pick, but he wanted to make sure he got Gorgui -- his biggest reason for trading down. I mentioned Gobert as my alternative if Gorgui had already been taken by our 27th pick. Flip's response was just that he didn't think much of Gorbert, without providing any details. Flip then went on to rave about Bazz for at least a full minute.

I was really high on Gorgui at the time and that was the reason I cut Flip some slack on his decision to trade down. But I would have been comfortable with Gobert at the time -- although I'll admit I didn't think he'd be this good.

Could some of the decision be based on where the wolves were as a franchise. We needed to make the playoffs with k love or we lose him. Ricky and Pek both looked like possible cornerstones still and AK47 hadn't opted out yet, also had cap space (signed Kmart). It looked like a playoff team. So we take 2 more "sure" things at the time in gorgui and bazz. Instead of taking a guy in McCollum coming off a foot injury (missed 1st six weeks of the season) and 2 raw players in Giannis and Gobert.

Not saying that is a great strategy.

Geek -- I that was Flip's thinking, he didn't reveal it to me. It was actually my criticism of his draft decision in my letter that drew Flip's focus in our 90-minute lunch. He started by challenging me on my assessment of Bazz. Then he went on to tell me he really like CJ but had concerns about his foot. Finally, he said, he wanted to make sure he got Gorgui. I told him I agreed with him on Gorgui. I think Flip would have told me if his decision was based on the status of the team. In fact, CL was as NBA-ready as any player in the draft that season.

Again, we had the benefit of hindsight now. Although I disagreed with Flip at the time, I wasn't furious with his decision and I was really happy we landed Gorgui.

[Monster]

Any thoughts on Anigbogu? This guy looks raw but also like he could be a good defensive rim protector at the 5, which is what so many of us want.

It's interesting that you say this (and Thibs mentioned it in his season ending presser as well). KAT and Dieng were both elite shot blockers in college. And they also get their fair share of blocks in the NBA. Length and the ability to block shots is the least of our defensive problems in my opinion and certainly a raw college prospect won't be a quick fix.

The bigger issue - and I'm wondering if this is what Thibs really means - is what I would more broadly call paint protection. It's so instructive watching the playoffs and seeing how guys like Aldridge, Draymond, and Marc Gasol are able to position themselves correctly and wall up without fouling. That sometimes means they get a hand on the ball, but most of the time they are simply squared up and holding their ground with their arms straight up. How often do we see KAT or Dieng just take an awful angle or bite on pump fakes and leave their feet?

I think strength and defensive positioning is a far bigger problem than shot blocking for our interior guys.

Good post Q but Thibs said in the pressers that he was looking for shotblocking as one of the things he wanted to add to the roster so...yeah I just thought I would point that out. :)

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Since I have inside information that Flip reads this board from above :), I'm going to toss him a bone and give some hindsight support for his trading for G and Bazz. I have never liked CJ, and despite his scoring much better than I ever would have expected, I still am not a fan...and I am perhaps the only guy here that still supports Flip's trade after 4 years. And I will argue (and show) that advanced stats like the deal too. Getting a reliable starter and a high-scoring 6th (or 7th) man in exchange for a high-scoring SG who does little else is still a good move in my book. And I'm surprised at those who say CJ is a good defender...when I watch him, I still see one of the worst defensive SG's in the game, and his defensive stats largely back up my take. Here is basketball-reference's comparison of G and CJ's first 4 years:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Gorgui+Dieng&player_id1_select=Gorgui+Dieng&player_id1=dienggo01&player_id2_hint=C.J.+McCollum&player_id2_select=C.J.+McCollum&player_id2=mccolcj01

CJ is far more utilized than G and thus is the far more prolific scorer, but he lags behind G in almost all advanced stats. G's offensive vs. defensive rating is a solid 111-107, while the poor-defending CJ shows a deficit at 109-111...so according to these advanced stats, G is superior both on offense and defense, despite CJ's decisive scoring and 3-point shooting advantage. And because G adds value in so many areas other than scoring (unlike CJ) it's not surprising that he has a superior win shares to CJ for their respective careers.

Something else that doesn't show up in the stats is that Gorgui is the clear leader of his team in the clubhouse...he's the guy the Wolves' young players all look up to. And this is not just a CJ vs. G discussion, because in addition Flip got a high-scoring rotation guy in Shabazz. Shabazz's usage and points per minute are not much lower than CJ's, and in some ways he is a version of CJ light...a high-scoring option who is a liability on defense and doesn't do much to help his club.

With hindsight, Flip's best move would have been to trade his pick for the Freak and Gobert...I don't think anyone is disputing that. But I don't recall anybody here strongly advocating for that move at the time...I know I wasn't. I loved Flip's deal at the time, and four years later, getting a versatile starter and a sixth man in exchange for a 1-trick pony (albeit very good scorer) still seems like a good deal to me.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

If we don't bring Bazz back that trade becomes a 4 year rental that never really panned out and G for CJ which is hugely in favor of them as CJ is a borderline all-star.

[BloopOracle]

If CJ was on this team people would clamor to trade him because he only scores lol

[Monster]

If we don't bring Bazz back that trade becomes a 4 year rental that never really panned out and G for CJ which is hugely in favor of them as CJ is a borderline all-star.

Agreed. Flip redeemed himself getting Lavine the next year. But let's say you go back to that draft and pick CJ. You still have another first round draft pick where you could have selected another player possibly even Dieng if he fell. Of course Andre Roberson was picked by OKC when they got the the pick and then Gobert the next pick. The Wolves could have selected someone that wasn't any good either so...but yeah. He did get Bojan Dubljevi? who is a nice player with a late 2nd in that draft. The problem with him though I heard recently is he isn't desperate to come over here and if he comes to the NBA he wants to have a legit role not just ride the bench. I honestly can't blame him.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

If we don't bring Bazz back that trade becomes a 4 year rental that never really panned out and G for CJ which is hugely in favor of them as CJ is a borderline all-star.

Agreed. Flip redeemed himself getting Lavine the next year. But let's say you go back to that draft and pick CJ. You still have another first round draft pick where you could have selected another player possibly even Dieng if he fell. Of course Andre Roberson was picked by OKC when they got the the pick and then Gobert the next pick. The Wolves could have selected someone that wasn't any good either so...but yeah. He did get Bojan Dubljevi? who is a nice player with a late 2nd in that draft. The problem with him though I heard recently is he isn't desperate to come over here and if he comes to the NBA he wants to have a legit role not just ride the bench. I honestly can't blame him.

Well we could have had Jokic over Zach LOL Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Kyle Anderson, Nurkic and TJ Warren were all available too, and so only time will tell how good the Lavine pick turns out to be.

[Monster]

If we don't bring Bazz back that trade becomes a 4 year rental that never really panned out and G for CJ which is hugely in favor of them as CJ is a borderline all-star.

Agreed. Flip redeemed himself getting Lavine the next year. But let's say you go back to that draft and pick CJ. You still have another first round draft pick where you could have selected another player possibly even Dieng if he fell. Of course Andre Roberson was picked by OKC when they got the the pick and then Gobert the next pick. The Wolves could have selected someone that wasn't any good either so...but yeah. He did get Bojan Dubljevi? who is a nice player with a late 2nd in that draft. The problem with him though I heard recently is he isn't desperate to come over here and if he comes to the NBA he wants to have a legit role not just ride the bench. I honestly can't blame him.

Well we could have had Jokic over Zach LOL Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Kyle Anderson, Nurkic and TJ Warren were all available too, and so only time will tell how good the Lavine pick turns out to be.

Well if you insist on being greedy...Nurkic went the pick after we selected GR3. :)