Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:A disappointing last few days has the Twins now a half game back in the WC. Colon was sharp last night, but his effort was wasted with us only getting 1 hit off of a not very good Odorizi. Now Slegers really has to come through today.

Monster, I agree that it's terrific to see Mauer over .300, but I still blame Mollie for batting Joe 3-5 most of the season when he just isn't a power hitter anymore. Jeez...Mauer's slugging percentage of .415 is 7th on the team, just slightly ahead of Buxton and Polanco who are destined to push him to 9th in the next week. And he is tied with Escobar at 6th in RBIs, despite having 80 more ABs than Eduardo and batting in run-producing positions most of the year. I don't blame Joe...he is what he is, and is really helping us out now that Mollie has him positioned correctly in the lineup. But Mollie's stubbornness in continuing to put a singles hitter in the 3-5 spots most of the year may ultimately cost us the WC. I still think we will get it because Mollie has finally come to his senses, but man he put out some boneheaded lineups most of the season.

Mauer is 16th in the majors in OBP. That's the sign of a pretty good hitter. Does Molitor not get some credit for this team's record? It feels like you are pretty stubborn about Mauer's role in the lineup when this team has been overachieving most of the season. Maybe its worth considering thinking outside the box?

I don't disagree that Mauer is a good hitter and that his OBP is excellent. My point is that experienced managers know that guys with great OBP belong in the 1 and 2 holes to set the table for the run producers. Molitor does it backward...he's had our best OBP guy and one of our worst run producers batting in the middle of the lineup, and our top RBI guy (Dozier) leading off and following the guys with the worst BAs on the team! Just imagine how much more productive this lineup could have been had Mollie followed lineup principals that have stood the test of time. Maybe Mollie's backwards lineup philosophy is right and all the other managers are doing it wrong, but I don't think so. And I think that's proven out by how much more productive we have been since he moved Joe out of the middle of the lineup. Hopefully he will keep him in the 1 or 2 hole the rest of the season and give us a better chance of getting that WC.

So let's here exactly what you would have done. Who is your lead off hitter?

Mauer batting 3rd doesn't seem like the worst spot. He only had 107 PA batting 4th and like 10 batting 5th.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:A disappointing last few days has the Twins now a half game back in the WC. Colon was sharp last night, but his effort was wasted with us only getting 1 hit off of a not very good Odorizi. Now Slegers really has to come through today.

Monster, I agree that it's terrific to see Mauer over .300, but I still blame Mollie for batting Joe 3-5 most of the season when he just isn't a power hitter anymore. Jeez...Mauer's slugging percentage of .415 is 7th on the team, just slightly ahead of Buxton and Polanco who are destined to push him to 9th in the next week. And he is tied with Escobar at 6th in RBIs, despite having 80 more ABs than Eduardo and batting in run-producing positions most of the year. I don't blame Joe...he is what he is, and is really helping us out now that Mollie has him positioned correctly in the lineup. But Mollie's stubbornness in continuing to put a singles hitter in the 3-5 spots most of the year may ultimately cost us the WC. I still think we will get it because Mollie has finally come to his senses, but man he put out some boneheaded lineups most of the season.

Mauer is 16th in the majors in OBP. That's the sign of a pretty good hitter. Does Molitor not get some credit for this team's record? It feels like you are pretty stubborn about Mauer's role in the lineup when this team has been overachieving most of the season. Maybe its worth considering thinking outside the box?

I don't disagree that Mauer is a good hitter and that his OBP is excellent. My point is that experienced managers know that guys with great OBP belong in the 1 and 2 holes to set the table for the run producers. Molitor does it backward...he's had our best OBP guy and one of our worst run producers batting in the middle of the lineup, and our top RBI guy (Dozier) leading off and following the guys with the worst BAs on the team! Just imagine how much more productive this lineup could have been had Mollie followed lineup principals that have stood the test of time. Maybe Mollie's backwards lineup philosophy is right and all the other managers are doing it wrong, but I don't think so. And I think that's proven out by how much more productive we have been since he moved Joe out of the middle of the lineup. Hopefully he will keep him in the 1 or 2 hole the rest of the season and give us a better chance of getting that WC.

So let's here exactly what you would have done. Who is your lead off hitter?

Mauer batting 3rd doesn't seem like the worst spot. He only had 107 PA batting 4th and like 10 batting 5th.

107 PA in the 4 hole is 107 too many for a guy that ranks near the bottom of the team in slugging percentage and RBI, and he certainly didn't belong in the #3 hole by any traditional baseball metric either. I'm more of a fan of OBP than speed at the top of the order, so Mauer and Grossman would have looked good in front of true power guys like Sano, Dozier and Rosario...even Kepler would look better in the middle of the lineup with his 17 homers than Joe. After Grossman got hurt and Buxton learned to hit, Buxton and Mauer were logical choices to hit 1 and 2 (Buck has had OBPs of .457, .354, and .563 in July, August and September, and has truly game-changing speed), with Sano, Rosario, Dozier, Polanco, Kepler and even Escobar with his clutch hitting in the 3-6 spots depending on match ups. Mollie has finally started to get it the past month (although I still don't understand why he enjoys watching our leading HR hitter getting so many solo homers in the leadoff spot...Earl Weaver won a lot of championships with his fondness for the 3-run homer), but I still find him to be hopelessly overmatched in game management by more experienced managers. I think Jester has pointed this out before too. Ted Williams was one of the greatest hitters of all time, but was a terrible manager. I think the new young brain trust understands that great hitters don't often become great managers, and are strongly going to consider bringing in a real manager for next season. It's going to be difficult to replace Mollie if the Twins make the playoffs, but I'm pretty sure he will be gone if they don't.

Thanks for outlining your ideas. Wouldn't you have worry about Buxton adjusting his approach at the top of the order? A few months ago Smalley talked about how guys hitting in certain spots can effect what they do.

LST you may enjoy this article.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/3/31/16040426/2017-mlb-preview-leadoff-hitter-revolution-george-springer-kyle-schwarber-2e49f6ff7c58

monsterpile wrote:LST you may enjoy this article.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/3/31/16040426/2017-mlb-preview-leadoff-hitter-revolution-george-springer-kyle-schwarber-2e49f6ff7c58

Good stuff, monster...thx for posting. I'm a big fan of coaches and managers thinking outside the box, but then you need to evaluate whether it is successful or not. Pop is an innovator in many ways, and I think we would all agree that his odd methods have been successful. Same with Belichick. Thibs believes that playing starters more minutes than any other coach is the path to victory...I would say last year proved him wrong.

As for baseball lineups, I'm much more tolerant of putting a home run hitter in the 1 hole than I am putting one of your worst power hitters in the 3-5 spots. There's something to say about starting out the game with a home run. That said, it's clear that Dozier is going to come up with men on base much more often if he has Mauer batting in front of him than if he has Castro, and I don't know why you would want your best HR hitter batting with the bases empty more often than not. I would also point out that the Kyle Schwarber experiment has been a colossal failure. He's a power hitter, and who knows what it does to his psyche when he is put in the leadoff position. In Kyle's case, the numbers seem to indicate that when he is put in a traditional non-power position, he hits like it...half of his at bats this season have been in the leadoff role, and he is hitting .185 with a pitiful .356 slugging average.

So, while I am tolerant of Mollie batting Dozier 1st (although it wouldn't be my first choice), it makes no sense to me to have one of your worst slugging percentages in the middle of the lineup. I think Joe understands this too, even if Mollie doesn't. In his 89 ABs in the 4 hole, he is batting .213 with a pitiful slugging average of .292...who knows how many runners were left on base by Joe in those games where Mollie batted him 4th, and whether those lost opportunities might eventually cost us the WC in this very tight race.

Wow, what a big win last night! That's the third time in a week the Twins have rallied in the 9th...two wins, and one that fell one run short. I've been calling this team resilient all season, and the 9th inning rallies are another example. Another good outing for Gibby...4 in a row now. And a big winning hit by Polanco.

BUT...speaking of Polanco, Mollie made another terrible managing move last night that could have cost us another game. Down one run in the 8th, Mauer leads off the inning with a single (the OBP machine was on base all 4 times last night!). With our best run producers Polanco, Rosario and Buxton coming up, things were looking up. But inexplicitly, Mollie asks Polanco to sacrifice Mauer to second. Now, I'm not saying a bunt trying to move the tying run into scoring position is always a bad move (although I generally do not endorse it unless a very bad hitter is at the plate) but in this case it was completely boneheaded. Mike Minor is brutal against lefties (.141 BAA), but Polanco is a righty, red hot, and was 3 for 7 with two doubles against Minor. In contrast, LH Rosario was 0 for 6 with 3 K's and Buxton was 0 for 3 against Minor. Mollie elected to give up Polanco to allow two guys who were collectively 0 for 9 against Minor! Does Mollie even look at what his hitters have done against specific pitchers???? The results were entirely predictable to anyone other than our manager. Rosario struck out on three pitches, and Buxton grounded out weekly. And I threw another pillow at the TV.

We continue to lead in the WC race, but we are doing it despite of moves from Molitor. He is way overmatched in every game.

longstrangetrip wrote:Wow, what a big win last night! That's the third time in a week the Twins have rallied in the 9th...two wins, and one that fell one run short. I've been calling this team resilient all season, and the 9th inning rallies are another example. Another good outing for Gibby...4 in a row now. And a big winning hit by Polanco.

BUT...speaking of Polanco, Mollie made another terrible managing move last night that could have cost us another game. Down one run in the 8th, Mauer leads off the inning with a single (the OBP machine was on base all 4 times last night!). With our best run producers Polanco, Rosario and Buxton coming up, things were looking up. But inexplicitly, Mollie asks Polanco to sacrifice Mauer to second. Now, I'm not saying a bunt trying to move the tying run into scoring position is always a bad move (although I generally do not endorse it unless a very bad hitter is at the plate) but in this case it was completely boneheaded. Mike Minor is brutal against lefties (.141 BAA), but Polanco is a righty, red hot, and was 3 for 7 with two doubles against Minor. In contrast, LH Rosario was 0 for 6 with 3 K's and Buxton was 0 for 3 against Minor. Mollie elected to give up Polanco to allow two guys who were collectively 0 for 9 against Minor! Does Mollie even look at what his hitters have done against specific pitchers???? The results were entirely predictable to anyone other than our manager. Rosario struck out on three pitches, and Buxton grounded out weekly. And I threw another pillow at the TV.

We continue to lead in the WC race, but we are doing it despite of moves from Molitor. He is way overmatched in every game.

Based on what Thad Levine said on podcast with Wolfson Molitor looks at all kinds of numbers and matchups. I wasn't a big fan of the move either and I didn't know all those numbers. Maybe they saw something in the field that made them go for the bunt.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Wow, what a big win last night! That's the third time in a week the Twins have rallied in the 9th...two wins, and one that fell one run short. I've been calling this team resilient all season, and the 9th inning rallies are another example. Another good outing for Gibby...4 in a row now. And a big winning hit by Polanco.

BUT...speaking of Polanco, Mollie made another terrible managing move last night that could have cost us another game. Down one run in the 8th, Mauer leads off the inning with a single (the OBP machine was on base all 4 times last night!). With our best run producers Polanco, Rosario and Buxton coming up, things were looking up. But inexplicitly, Mollie asks Polanco to sacrifice Mauer to second. Now, I'm not saying a bunt trying to move the tying run into scoring position is always a bad move (although I generally do not endorse it unless a very bad hitter is at the plate) but in this case it was completely boneheaded. Mike Minor is brutal against lefties (.141 BAA), but Polanco is a righty, red hot, and was 3 for 7 with two doubles against Minor. In contrast, LH Rosario was 0 for 6 with 3 K's and Buxton was 0 for 3 against Minor. Mollie elected to give up Polanco to allow two guys who were collectively 0 for 9 against Minor! Does Mollie even look at what his hitters have done against specific pitchers???? The results were entirely predictable to anyone other than our manager. Rosario struck out on three pitches, and Buxton grounded out weekly. And I threw another pillow at the TV.

We continue to lead in the WC race, but we are doing it despite of moves from Molitor. He is way overmatched in every game.

Based on what Thad Levine said on podcast with Wolfson Molitor looks at all kinds of numbers and matchups. I wasn't a big fan of the move either and I didn't know all those numbers. Maybe they saw something in the field that made them go for the bunt.

I guess in all fairness we don't know if perhaps Polanco bunted on his own...it did clearly look like a sacrifice rather than bunting for a hit though, so I'm guessing the bunt sign was on. The important thing is we won another game with a gritty 9th inning rally...really fun to watch.

Off topic, monster, but since I have your attention. Your guy Jeremiah Sirles was on KFAN last night from 6 to 7. Great guy...funny and really smart. I don't know how good a lineman he is, but he was fun to listen to.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Wow, what a big win last night! That's the third time in a week the Twins have rallied in the 9th...two wins, and one that fell one run short. I've been calling this team resilient all season, and the 9th inning rallies are another example. Another good outing for Gibby...4 in a row now. And a big winning hit by Polanco.

BUT...speaking of Polanco, Mollie made another terrible managing move last night that could have cost us another game. Down one run in the 8th, Mauer leads off the inning with a single (the OBP machine was on base all 4 times last night!). With our best run producers Polanco, Rosario and Buxton coming up, things were looking up. But inexplicitly, Mollie asks Polanco to sacrifice Mauer to second. Now, I'm not saying a bunt trying to move the tying run into scoring position is always a bad move (although I generally do not endorse it unless a very bad hitter is at the plate) but in this case it was completely boneheaded. Mike Minor is brutal against lefties (.141 BAA), but Polanco is a righty, red hot, and was 3 for 7 with two doubles against Minor. In contrast, LH Rosario was 0 for 6 with 3 K's and Buxton was 0 for 3 against Minor. Mollie elected to give up Polanco to allow two guys who were collectively 0 for 9 against Minor! Does Mollie even look at what his hitters have done against specific pitchers???? The results were entirely predictable to anyone other than our manager. Rosario struck out on three pitches, and Buxton grounded out weekly. And I threw another pillow at the TV.

We continue to lead in the WC race, but we are doing it despite of moves from Molitor. He is way overmatched in every game.

Based on what Thad Levine said on podcast with Wolfson Molitor looks at all kinds of numbers and matchups. I wasn't a big fan of the move either and I didn't know all those numbers. Maybe they saw something in the field that made them go for the bunt.

I guess in all fairness we don't know if perhaps Polanco bunted on his own...it did clearly look like a sacrifice rather than bunting for a hit though, so I'm guessing the bunt sign was on. The important thing is we won another game with a gritty 9th inning rally...really fun to watch.

Off topic, monster, but since I have your attention. Your guy Jeremiah Sirles was on KFAN last night from 6 to 7. Great guy...funny and really smart. I don't know how good a lineman he is, but he was fun to listen to.

Oh yeah he has been on the local shows here pretty often he is really good. What show was he on? Maybe I will listen to it. I wonder if his wife does anything with soccer in the area.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Wow, what a big win last night! That's the third time in a week the Twins have rallied in the 9th...two wins, and one that fell one run short. I've been calling this team resilient all season, and the 9th inning rallies are another example. Another good outing for Gibby...4 in a row now. And a big winning hit by Polanco.

BUT...speaking of Polanco, Mollie made another terrible managing move last night that could have cost us another game. Down one run in the 8th, Mauer leads off the inning with a single (the OBP machine was on base all 4 times last night!). With our best run producers Polanco, Rosario and Buxton coming up, things were looking up. But inexplicitly, Mollie asks Polanco to sacrifice Mauer to second. Now, I'm not saying a bunt trying to move the tying run into scoring position is always a bad move (although I generally do not endorse it unless a very bad hitter is at the plate) but in this case it was completely boneheaded. Mike Minor is brutal against lefties (.141 BAA), but Polanco is a righty, red hot, and was 3 for 7 with two doubles against Minor. In contrast, LH Rosario was 0 for 6 with 3 K's and Buxton was 0 for 3 against Minor. Mollie elected to give up Polanco to allow two guys who were collectively 0 for 9 against Minor! Does Mollie even look at what his hitters have done against specific pitchers???? The results were entirely predictable to anyone other than our manager. Rosario struck out on three pitches, and Buxton grounded out weekly. And I threw another pillow at the TV.

We continue to lead in the WC race, but we are doing it despite of moves from Molitor. He is way overmatched in every game.

Based on what Thad Levine said on podcast with Wolfson Molitor looks at all kinds of numbers and matchups. I wasn't a big fan of the move either and I didn't know all those numbers. Maybe they saw something in the field that made them go for the bunt.

I guess in all fairness we don't know if perhaps Polanco bunted on his own...it did clearly look like a sacrifice rather than bunting for a hit though, so I'm guessing the bunt sign was on. The important thing is we won another game with a gritty 9th inning rally...really fun to watch.

Off topic, monster, but since I have your attention. Your guy Jeremiah Sirles was on KFAN last night from 6 to 7. Great guy...funny and really smart. I don't know how good a lineman he is, but he was fun to listen to.

Oh yeah he has been on the local shows here pretty often he is really good. What show was he on? Maybe I will listen to it. I wonder if his wife does anything with soccer in the area.

Not sure the name of the show, monster, but it's on from 6 to 7 on Thursdays on KFAN. He's a good guy.