Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:Great comments LST here are some follow up thoughts.

LST all there has been is reports Love is interested in resigning if Lebron joins up there are no quotes although who cares. Who doesn't want to play with Lebron besides Kobe? Its a no-brainer. I have no interest in trading a possible top 10 player for basically scraps because he might make life terrible for the team this year. This team will be terrible in that case we might as well hope we can change his mind. Very few quotes have been coming from Love this offseason and yet Love also said he has a good relationship with Flip. The non-contact with teammates is a bit troubling but he might have reached out to them in a non-public way we don't know. With the situation the way it is that would be wise.

I think your idea that the league doesn't value Love is not because nobody wants to give up something good for Love its because Flip is rightly asking a high price. Teams aren't willing to give up multiple assets for Love at this point. Klay is a VERY good SG which is hard to get and the Wolves would need more. Cavs don't want to give up Wiggins and we are actually on the same page of the thinking of them not doing it. Love for draft picks before the draft or now? Nah that's not good enough for Flip.

Let's be honest we know Love is planning to opt out because well if he wasn't thinking of leaving because he hasn't won here well he wouldn't be opting out right? Nobody here blames Love for leaving so him opting out makes sense plus he can make more money getting a max contract. Love for the most part has gone dark except a couple appearances that he was likely obligated to do. Love likes to be in the media and being quiet is probably the right way to go. That's basically what Lebron did. Lebron did Miami wrong cause he shouted out when Napier got drafted right? What a jerk-hole poor Miami. Lol :)

Is Love not well liked by his teammates? Well maybe not but lots of guys in the league have supposedly not gotten along and won championships. Winning solves a lot of problems and maybe the right vet leader or coach might change or manage that (or make it worse lol). Melo has his issues but look at all the teams that wanted him badly and I'd rather have Love the next 4 years no doubt. Good teams don't just give up guys as good as Love they convince them to stay. The deck is stacked against us no doubt but If I amFlip I try as hard as I can unless I get a great offer which may come who knows what may happen.

I agree with a lot of what Monster is saying here. I also think that I could care less if some mediocre players dont' like Love. Maybe we should move the other players. I want a winner, and I am a lot less concerned about a star player with an arrogant attitude as I am with a clown like DC who chokes out his gf.

Long, I think you have to consider the possibility that the media are wrong. Understand that most will take any opportunity to bash the wolves. Did you expect GS and Cleveland to alienate their young guns by admitting that they are on the block. I read and article where Kerr said he had talked to Lee and Klay about the rumors and told them that is why they make the money they do. He told them anyone can come to the gym everyday, but having to uproot your family is why they make the salaries they do.

Love's options next season are dwindling fast. Teams seem to be locking up their cap space. The assets it will require for teams like GS to open up space are the same ones they are publicly offering right now. One month from now, Cleveland is going to ask themselves are we better off with Love or Wiggins over the next 3 or 4 years. What do you think the answer is. That is what this comes down to, Period!

monsterpile wrote:Great comments LST here are some follow up thoughts.

LST all there has been is reports Love is interested in resigning if Lebron joins up there are no quotes although who cares. Who doesn't want to play with Lebron besides Kobe? Its a no-brainer. I have no interest in trading a possible top 10 player for basically scraps because he might make life terrible for the team this year. This team will be terrible in that case we might as well hope we can change his mind. Very few quotes have been coming from Love this offseason and yet Love also said he has a good relationship with Flip. The non-contact with teammates is a bit troubling but he might have reached out to them in a non-public way we don't know. With the situation the way it is that would be wise.

I think your idea that the league doesn't value Love is not because nobody wants to give up something good for Love its because Flip is rightly asking a high price. Teams aren't willing to give up multiple assets for Love at this point. Klay is a VERY good SG which is hard to get and the Wolves would need more. Cavs don't want to give up Wiggins and we are actually on the same page of the thinking of them not doing it. Love for draft picks before the draft or now? Nah that's not good enough for Flip.

Let's be honest we know Love is planning to opt out because well if he wasn't thinking of leaving because he hasn't won here well he wouldn't be opting out right? Nobody here blames Love for leaving so him opting out makes sense plus he can make more money getting a max contract. Love for the most part has gone dark except a couple appearances that he was likely obligated to do. Love likes to be in the media and being quiet is probably the right way to go. That's basically what Lebron did. Lebron did Miami wrong cause he shouted out when Napier got drafted right? What a jerk-hole poor Miami. Lol :)

Is Love not well liked by his teammates? Well maybe not but lots of guys in the league have supposedly not gotten along and won championships. Winning solves a lot of problems and maybe the right vet leader or coach might change or manage that (or make it worse lol). Melo has his issues but look at all the teams that wanted him badly and I'd rather have Love the next 4 years no doubt. Good teams don't just give up guys as good as Love they convince them to stay. The deck is stacked against us no doubt but If I amFlip I try as hard as I can unless I get a great offer which may come who knows what may happen.

Monster, I appreciate the optimism about Love coming back. I need it, because it appears more likely with every passing day. You're right that a superstar doesn't have to be well liked by teammates for the team to be successful...I'm just concerned that the lack of closeness of this team has been a contributing factor to their underperforming. But maybe it's not a factor.

You also make a good point about Love's silence...it probably is a good thing, and Love is probably taking his agent's advice. When Love opens his mouth, usually bad things happen, and it's in his best interest to try to keep everyone happy. I wish, though, that he had made a statement a couple weeks ago. Something like this: "I'm under contract for one more year, and I want the fans to know I am committed to making things work here in Minnesota. We haven't had the success I might have wanted, and as the highest paid player on the team, I need to take some of the blame for our results. I want to make it work here, but I also have a driving desire to make the playoffs once in my career, so I need to keep my options open. With the draft coming up, you fans are going to hear a noise about me, and I'm sorry you have to go through that. I want you to know that I am leaving everything up to my agent, so that I can focus on improving my game this summer and leading US to the playoffs next season." But Kevin doesn't do stuff like that. I wish he did.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Great comments LST here are some follow up thoughts.

LST all there has been is reports Love is interested in resigning if Lebron joins up there are no quotes although who cares. Who doesn't want to play with Lebron besides Kobe? Its a no-brainer. I have no interest in trading a possible top 10 player for basically scraps because he might make life terrible for the team this year. This team will be terrible in that case we might as well hope we can change his mind. Very few quotes have been coming from Love this offseason and yet Love also said he has a good relationship with Flip. The non-contact with teammates is a bit troubling but he might have reached out to them in a non-public way we don't know. With the situation the way it is that would be wise.

I think your idea that the league doesn't value Love is not because nobody wants to give up something good for Love its because Flip is rightly asking a high price. Teams aren't willing to give up multiple assets for Love at this point. Klay is a VERY good SG which is hard to get and the Wolves would need more. Cavs don't want to give up Wiggins and we are actually on the same page of the thinking of them not doing it. Love for draft picks before the draft or now? Nah that's not good enough for Flip.

Let's be honest we know Love is planning to opt out because well if he wasn't thinking of leaving because he hasn't won here well he wouldn't be opting out right? Nobody here blames Love for leaving so him opting out makes sense plus he can make more money getting a max contract. Love for the most part has gone dark except a couple appearances that he was likely obligated to do. Love likes to be in the media and being quiet is probably the right way to go. That's basically what Lebron did. Lebron did Miami wrong cause he shouted out when Napier got drafted right? What a jerk-hole poor Miami. Lol :)

Is Love not well liked by his teammates? Well maybe not but lots of guys in the league have supposedly not gotten along and won championships. Winning solves a lot of problems and maybe the right vet leader or coach might change or manage that (or make it worse lol). Melo has his issues but look at all the teams that wanted him badly and I'd rather have Love the next 4 years no doubt. Good teams don't just give up guys as good as Love they convince them to stay. The deck is stacked against us no doubt but If I amFlip I try as hard as I can unless I get a great offer which may come who knows what may happen.

Monster, I appreciate the optimism about Love coming back. I need it, because it appears more likely with every passing day. You're right that a superstar doesn't have to be well liked by teammates for the team to be successful...I'm just concerned that the lack of closeness of this team has been a contributing factor to their underperforming. But maybe it's not a factor.

You also make a good point about Love's silence...it probably is a good thing, and Love is probably taking his agent's advice. When Love opens his mouth, usually bad things happen, and it's in his best interest to try to keep everyone happy. I wish, though, that he had made a statement a couple weeks ago. Something like this: "I'm under contract for one more year, and I want the fans to know I am committed to making things work here in Minnesota. We haven't had the success I might have wanted, and as the highest paid player on the team, I need to take some of the blame for our results. I want to make it work here, but I also have a driving desire to make the playoffs once in my career, so I need to keep my options open. With the draft coming up, you fans are going to hear a noise about me, and I'm sorry you have to go through that. I want you to know that I am leaving everything up to my agent, so that I can focus on improving my game this summer and leading US to the playoffs next season." But Kevin doesn't do stuff like that. I wish he did.

LST that comment sounds nice but it could make Flip look bad if he traded Love if a deal came along that was good for everyone. Love is better off staying quiet nothing he can say in his position is going to sound good right now. If he is on the team when training camp opens my guess is he will say something like what you stated. The strongest public statements he has made is it kills him he hasn't won.

In addition Love does get in trouble when he opens his mouth but I also find him engaging and funny. Also people forget Love is sort of an old school guy he is a student of the game. He isn't stupid when it comes to basketball. I actually like him as much as I know about him. I miss him being out in the media. I like that if he talks he tends to say what is on his mind. That gets him in trouble but I don't think its anything terrible either.

Keep in mind that Love has gone beyond simply deciding not to opt into the 4th year of his deal. He has put the word out that he wants to go elsewhere and went so far as to appear publicly and drive that point home with comments that included references to his current team and teammates as "them" and "they."

My point regarding Love going beyond simply declining to extend is two fold. First, It has reduced Flip's leverage, especially when coupled with Love's very limited list of teams he would be willing to commit to long term. Second, it confirms that Love's issues with the Wolves go beyond his desire to win. If it were just a matter of wins/losses, Love could and would have simply declined to extend and either kept his mouth shut or stated that his decision next summer will turn on how well the team performs this upcoming season. Moreover, if it were just a matter of wins/losses, the Celtics would not be one only several teams Love has indicated he'd commit to long term.

Clearly Love's issues with the Wolves go well beyond his frustration with losing. And don't assume that all is well between Love and Flip. If you're wondering, look back at Flip's public comment that Love doesn't have the right to be frustrated and that he essentially needs to step up as a leader and bear the burden. Then consider Ricky's subtle poke at Love and Kahn's final comment that Love needs to win back the respect of his teammates. Recall also that the Wolves owner approved and publicly defended the decision not to give Love the 5-year max deal.

The point is this. No matter how well the Wolves do this upcoming season in the very tough Western Conference, the notion that Love will choose to stay here thereafter is highly problematic - actually vey unlikely. And if he leaves as a FA next summer, the cap space he leaves in his wake will do little for this team since we won't have the existing stars, market or reputation to attract the caliber players we'd need to set the team up to be anything close to a contender. That's why, in my view, Flip needs to ultimately take the best deal he can get before the season.

If Flip can't get a top young vet like a Parsons or Thompson or a potential star rookie like Wiggins, Exum or Parker, then He needs to take the deal that gives us the best array of future picks and short term contracts. That's obviously much better than just letting Love walk. Either way we bottom out, but getting picks at least gives us some additional building blocks for the future in addition to cap space created by Love's departure, rather than just relying on or own picks cap space. And I think it's better than rolling the dice against very long odds that Love will re-sign here after next season.

You don't just take a deal to take a deal. That is how you end up with garbage that never helps you and then you end up with nothing valuable for giving up a top 10 player which is an utter disaster. There aren't any winning teams with the cap space to straight up sign Love so his options are also limited on the market. Flip challenged Love like any coach should do to keep his 25 year old superstar in his place. Love doesn't run this franchise, so he shouldn't be babied and we should not operate based on what he wants. We should operate on what is best for the franchise. You set the franchise back another decade if you take a substandard deal just to get your superstar out of town. You mention Boston specifically and Boston has another all-star to pair Love with in a weaker conference. That is a better situation than we have here in a stacked conference with no other all-star on the team. If Love just wanted out, then he wouldn't be limiting his options this much. He'd go pretty much anywhere just to get out. Love wants to win and get paid the max. That's it. The worst thing Flip could do is take a deal just to take a deal for a top 10 player in the league. That is how you set back your franchise for another decade because you don't end up with good picks or cap space.

The point is this. No matter how well the Wolves do this upcoming season in the very tough Western Conference, the notion that Love will choose to stay here thereafter is highly problematic - actually vey unlikely.

Its unlikely that we do that well, but you are telling me that if the Wolves get to the WCF Love won't have interest in staying? Love actually made fun of the Lakers last year and said the Wolves had a better core or something like that. He isn't going to some other rebuilding crap team.

khans2k5 wrote:You don't just take a deal to take a deal. That is how you end up with garbage that never helps you and then you end up with nothing valuable for giving up a top 10 player which is an utter disaster. There aren't any winning teams with the cap space to straight up sign Love so his options are also limited on the market. Flip challenged Love like any coach should do to keep his 25 year old superstar in his place. Love doesn't run this franchise, so he shouldn't be babied and we should not operate based on what he wants. We should operate on what is best for the franchise. You set the franchise back another decade if you take a substandard deal just to get your superstar out of town. You mention Boston specifically and Boston has another all-star to pair Love with in a weaker conference. That is a better situation than we have here in a stacked conference with no other all-star on the team. If Love just wanted out, then he wouldn't be limiting his options this much. He'd go pretty much anywhere just to get out. Love wants to win and get paid the max. That's it. The worst thing Flip could do is take a deal just to take a deal for a top 10 player in the league. That is how you set back your franchise for another decade because you don't end up with good picks or cap space.

Co-sign.

LIP---If Flip can't get a top young vet like a Parsons or Thompson or a potential star rookie like Wiggins, Exum or Parker, then He needs to take the deal that gives us the best array of future picks and short term contracts.

I agree
He is not coming back, period. He believes (I believe) that he has been dissed by Khan, Taylor, and now Flip and Ricky. He was detached and uninterested, that was rumored last year. He's gone.

So the question - do we want picks (Boston deal) or nothing, and do what we can with the cap space. Q and Cam seem to think we have some form of leverage here. We don't have shit. This is make the best of a blown relationship. Value for value is not going to happen.

papalrep wrote:LIP---If Flip can't get a top young vet like a Parsons or Thompson or a potential star rookie like Wiggins, Exum or Parker, then He needs to take the deal that gives us the best array of future picks and short term contracts.

I agree
He is not coming back, period. He believes (I believe) that he has been dissed by Khan, Taylor, and now Flip and Ricky. He was detached and uninterested, that was rumored last year. He's gone.

So the question - do we want picks (Boston deal) or nothing, and do what we can with the cap space. Q and Cam seem to think we have some form of leverage here. We don't have shit. This is make the best of a blown relationship. Value for value is not going to happen.

The Wolves have no leverage? So tell me... how will the Warriors or Cavs sign Love next summer?

The Wolves have leverage over any team that wants him that can't sign him outright next summer or w/o dumping key assets. Both those teams would have to unload assets in order to sign him. Sure it could come down to a game of chicken where the Wolves call their bluff, go into the season, not get a decent deadline deal and then go into next summer, but they can also refuse to even do a S&T at that point. Flip has plenty of leverage.

EDIT: Plus teams like Boston, NYC, etc may have available cap space to just sign him next summer. Teams w/o that option know this.

The Wolves have leverage over any team that wants him that can't sign him outright next summer or w/o dumping key assets

Good Point

But if they think Flip wants the crown jewels (Klay or Wiggins), I think they wait, and move people they value less than those players and then make a run at him on their terms. I still don't believe we are getting value for value here. All Love has to say is "wont extend there" and its over. Flip is NOT in a good position