Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:Shouldn't KAT be expected to have some immaturity issues? Jimmy's immaturity should have the real scrutiny here. He's the vet, who is a petulant child. Jimmy has no reason to have any issue with anyone based on maturity after coming out with his reason for this tirade. The guy is a baby and needs a spanking and a timeout.

Well said, Doper.

To those who say KAT passes up shots or "didn't want the looks" I'd say they haven't watched KAT enough Wolves basketball or haven't paid much attention to KAT. He loves to shoot and is constantly calling for the ball in the post. Thibodeau's criticisms of KAT on the offensive end was failure to pass and make players around him better. KG was a guy who passed up a lot of shots he could and should have taken. KAT has never had that problem. There's an unfortunate false narrative developing around KAT. He has plent of faults that include poor judgment and missed assignments on the defensive end as well as an overly rehearsed public persona, but not wanting shots is not among them. KAT's offensive and rebounding production throughout his still short career have been outstanding and speak for themselves. And his durability is amazing as he NEVER misses games. His durability is all the more amazing as you watch him game after game live at Target Center get pounded by the biggest, strongest players in the NBA.

Now let's be clear. KAT still has a lot to learn and at age 23 entering his 4th season that shouldn't be surprising. Further, KAT hasn't shown himself to be an alpha. Maybe he will eventually, but at this point I see him as an outstanding #2 (a Scottie Pippen equivalent) on a championship caliber team. His talent is clearly worthy of building around, but the team needs an alpha #1 if it's going ultimately for a championship. Butler was Thibodeau's stab at pairing KAT with an alpha #1. Unfortunately, and not surprisingly, it was a poor choice given Butler's age relative to KAT, his injury propensity and his personality. This teams needs to continue to load up with young talent around KAT over the next couple years, get a modern elite head coach and see how things develop.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.



https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.

I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.

Richardson and Waiters and Riley hung up when Thibs asked for a pick? I'm not surprised by any of that. I knew these offers were going to be lowballing us. Glad Thibs said no. I like Richardson a lot, but Waiters is the opposite, definitely not an asset.

Guys, we have been vastly optimistic in thinking about what trades we could make for Butler, but also for Gorgui and Wiggins, both of whom really have to be moved.

Reports are out now that teams would have wanted 2 firsts just to take on G's salary. I knew it would be at least one (that's been the going rate for G's salary for a couple years now), but I didn't think two. At that price, you almost have to hold on to him and stretch him if we can/need to down the line.

And does anybody think we could actually move Wiggins for something valuable? I've seen guys here propose trades in which we actually get decent stuff back. That's crazy given how overpaid Wiggins is and how much everybody knows it now. My guess is that we'd at least have to take on some bad but shorter salary to dump Wiggins.

The future of this franchise is not exactly bright.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Richardson and Waiters and Riley hung up when Thibs asked for a pick? I'm not surprised by any of that. I knew these offers were going to be lowballing us. Glad Thibs said no. I like Richardson a lot, but Waiters is the opposite, definitely not an asset.

Guys, we have been vastly optimistic in thinking about what trades we could make for Butler, but also for Gorgui and Wiggins, both of whom really have to be moved.

Reports are out now that teams would have wanted 2 firsts just to take on G's salary. I knew it would be at least one (that's been the going rate for G's salary for a couple years now), but I didn't think two. At that price, you almost have to hold on to him and stretch him if we can/need to down the line.

And does anybody think we could actually move Wiggins for something valuable? I've seen guys here propose trades in which we actually get decent stuff back. That's crazy given how overpaid Wiggins is and how much everybody knows it now. My guess is that we'd at least have to take on some bad but shorter salary to dump Wiggins.

The future of this franchise is not exactly bright.

I heard the same thing about Gorgui's current negative market value, with teams expecting two first round picks as the price for taking Gorgui.

Of course it was Thibodeau's decision to give Gorgui and Wiggins those contracts. About 8 months after giving Gorgui that big contract and coaching him for a full season, Thibodeau told a group of us at a season ticket holder gathering that Gorgui was the team's more improved player. Let's review. Thibodeau gives Gorgui a lucrative, long-term deal obviously based on all the video he says he watched of the Wolves the year before and based on all the time he spent coaching Gorgui in practice. And then, after coaching him for a season, Thibodeau believes Gorgui is even better - improving more than any other player on the team. But then Thibodeau signs Taj to a big-money deal to replace Gorgui in the starting lineup.

It's unbelievable that Thibodeau is still the Wolves top basketball executive. Maybe his head coach gave him misleading player evaluations of those two guys. Of course, that's it. So maybe just fire the head coach. :)

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Richardson and Waiters and Riley hung up when Thibs asked for a pick? I'm not surprised by any of that. I knew these offers were going to be lowballing us. Glad Thibs said no. I like Richardson a lot, but Waiters is the opposite, definitely not an asset.

Guys, we have been vastly optimistic in thinking about what trades we could make for Butler, but also for Gorgui and Wiggins, both of whom really have to be moved.

Reports are out now that teams would have wanted 2 firsts just to take on G's salary. I knew it would be at least one (that's been the going rate for G's salary for a couple years now), but I didn't think two. At that price, you almost have to hold on to him and stretch him if we can/need to down the line.

And does anybody think we could actually move Wiggins for something valuable? I've seen guys here propose trades in which we actually get decent stuff back. That's crazy given how overpaid Wiggins is and how much everybody knows it now. My guess is that we'd at least have to take on some bad but shorter salary to dump Wiggins.

The future of this franchise is not exactly bright.

I heard the same thing about Gorgui's current negative market value, with teams expecting two first round picks as the price for taking Gorgui.

Of course it was Thibodeau's decision to give Gorgui and Wiggins those contracts. About 8 months after giving Gorgui that big contract and coaching him for a full season, Thibodeau told a group of us at a season ticket holder gathering that Gorgui was the team's more improved player. Let's review. Thibodeau gives Gorgui a lucrative, long-term deal obviously based on all the video he says he watched of the Wolves the year before and based on all the time he spent coaching Gorgui in practice. And then, after coaching him for a season, Thibodeau believes Gorgui is even better - improving more than any other player on the team. But then Thibodeau signs Taj to a big-money deal to replace Gorgui in the starting lineup.

It's unbelievable that Thibodeau is still the Wolves top basketball executive. Maybe his head coach gave him misleading player evaluations of those two guys. Of course, that's it. So maybe just fire the head coach. :)

The Wiggins deal is 100% on Glen. If you have to ask whether someone warrants the max on your team, you shouldn't ok the offer, let alone jump at the chance to do so.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Richardson and Waiters and Riley hung up when Thibs asked for a pick? I'm not surprised by any of that. I knew these offers were going to be lowballing us. Glad Thibs said no. I like Richardson a lot, but Waiters is the opposite, definitely not an asset.

Guys, we have been vastly optimistic in thinking about what trades we could make for Butler, but also for Gorgui and Wiggins, both of whom really have to be moved.

Reports are out now that teams would have wanted 2 firsts just to take on G's salary. I knew it would be at least one (that's been the going rate for G's salary for a couple years now), but I didn't think two. At that price, you almost have to hold on to him and stretch him if we can/need to down the line.

And does anybody think we could actually move Wiggins for something valuable? I've seen guys here propose trades in which we actually get decent stuff back. That's crazy given how overpaid Wiggins is and how much everybody knows it now. My guess is that we'd at least have to take on some bad but shorter salary to dump Wiggins.

The future of this franchise is not exactly bright.

I heard the same thing about Gorgui's current negative market value, with teams expecting two first round picks as the price for taking Gorgui.

Of course it was Thibodeau's decision to give Gorgui and Wiggins those contracts. About 8 months after giving Gorgui that big contract and coaching him for a full season, Thibodeau told a group of us at a season ticket holder gathering that Gorgui was the team's more improved player. Let's review. Thibodeau gives Gorgui a lucrative, long-term deal obviously based on all the video he says he watched of the Wolves the year before and based on all the time he spent coaching Gorgui in practice. And then, after coaching him for a season, Thibodeau believes Gorgui is even better - improving more than any other player on the team. But then Thibodeau signs Taj to a big-money deal to replace Gorgui in the starting lineup.

It's unbelievable that Thibodeau is still the Wolves top basketball executive. Maybe his head coach gave him misleading player evaluations of those two guys. Of course, that's it. So maybe just fire the head coach. :)

The Wiggins deal is 100% on Glen. If you have to ask whether someone warrants the max on your team, you shouldn't ok the offer, let alone jump at the chance to do so.

No. You hire a top executive to make those decisions. In fact, Glen deserves credit for at least having some doubt about Wiggins to the point where he required that one-on-one conversation with Wiggins before approving the contract. As an NBA owner, like a shareholder in a company, you ultimately lean on the experts you hire to run your team or company. I wish Glen had refused to approve the deal. But I can certainly understand him deferring to the expert he hired as his top executive.

As I've said before, hiring Thibodeau in the first place was a mistake, which is obviously 100% on Glen. Failing to fire Thibodeau after this latest Butler debocle is entirely on Glen as well. But contrary to the false narrative of Glen as a "meddling" owner, he typically allows those he hires to make the decisions they're hired to make. It's more than fair to criticize Glen for bad hiring decisions when it comes to selecting basketball executives and coaches. But its nuts to criticize him for failing to ignore or overrule their judgments and decisions.

SameOldDrew wrote:Richardson and Waiters and Riley hung up when Thibs asked for a pick? I'm not surprised by any of that. I knew these offers were going to be lowballing us. Glad Thibs said no. I like Richardson a lot, but Waiters is the opposite, definitely not an asset.

Guys, we have been vastly optimistic in thinking about what trades we could make for Butler, but also for Gorgui and Wiggins, both of whom really have to be moved.

Reports are out now that teams would have wanted 2 firsts just to take on G's salary. I knew it would be at least one (that's been the going rate for G's salary for a couple years now), but I didn't think two. At that price, you almost have to hold on to him and stretch him if we can/need to down the line.

And does anybody think we could actually move Wiggins for something valuable? I've seen guys here propose trades in which we actually get decent stuff back. That's crazy given how overpaid Wiggins is and how much everybody knows it now. My guess is that we'd at least have to take on some bad but shorter salary to dump Wiggins.

The future of this franchise is not exactly bright.

Riley hung up when thibs asked for more picks.

The first they give is for taking on waiters. Considering it would have taken 2 firsts to unload dieng, this is a severe underpay by miami. This doesnt ven include getting butler for basically nothing.

We need to get tougher with the heat. Call miami and tell them we trade butler for richardson/miami first and tell them to figure out how to unload waiters on another team.

Miami is guilty of signing a bunch of bad long term contracts themselves and they are acting like they own us by having to dump 1 of those to us. They are not going anywhere with the current roster they have and need a star badly. Thibs needs to grow some balls and tell pat to go fuck himself.

Wig and towns needs to step up in practice and stand up to butler. No need for a confrontation or fistfight. Just go hard and dont back down. Its not fair to them that they are being used like this. These are 23 year old guys. I doubt jimmy would have done something when he was 23 and in kat/wigs shoes. They didnt see it coming. But now, they have to be prepared.

There is chatter on the internets lately that Glen wouldn't move Wiggins and Thibs may have actually have been open to it. I do remember It's being reported Glen was not trading Wiggins in the Chicago deal. I don't think Thibs wanted to do that either but some people wonder if Thibs would have given him up for Kyrie etc. it's all water under the bridge but kind of interring to think about. It's weird think of of this being somewhat of a male or break season in some ways for Wiggins when he is 23.

The same guy (Dane Moore) that reported that it would take 2 firsts to move Dieng said this inner he had a couple executives say that there would be more than a couple teams that would take on Wiggins and bank on his talent etc. Dane said he was actually somewhat surprised by what these executives told him what the market for Wiggins would be.

Also I doubt that even 2 first round picks from the Wolves would have been enough to move Dieng this summer. That's a hell of a lot of money to take on. That would have been the starting point I have no doubt but I don't even know if that would have gotten it done but it doesn't matter the Wolves weren't going to do that thankfully.

monsterpile wrote:There is chatter on the internets lately that Glen wouldn't move Wiggins and Thibs may have actually have been open to it. I do remember It's being reported Glen was not trading Wiggins in the Chicago deal. I don't think Thibs wanted to do that either but some people wonder if Thibs would have given him up for Kyrie etc. it's all water under the bridge but kind of interring to think about. It's weird think of of this being somewhat of a male or break season in some ways for Wiggins when he is 23.

The same guy (Dane Moore) that reported that it would take 2 firsts to move Dieng said this inner he had a couple executives say that there would be more than a couple teams that would take on Wiggins and bank on his talent etc. Dane said he was actually somewhat surprised by what these executives told him what the market for Wiggins would be.

Also I doubt that even 2 first round picks from the Wolves would have been enough to move Dieng this summer. That's a hell of a lot of money to take on. That would have been the starting point I have no doubt but I don't even know if that would have gotten it done but it doesn't matter the Wolves weren't going to do that thankfully.

The wiggins thing doesn't surprise me.

Organizations that need some sort of starpower will gamble on him. The kings and magic come to mind.

Others could figure that thibs is using him wrong and is miscast in his offense, so a better coach
might think that they can get more out of him.

I mean, He is the same age as some kids drafted this year.

Although i don't think any return would be too good.