Camden wrote:The Wolves did not turn Kevin Love, Zach LaVine, and Karl-Anthony Towns into great shooters. I find that statement to be far off, respectfully. All three of those guys had the shooting skill long before they made it to Minnesota. Their opportunities grew, of course, but the Wolves did not take bad or poor shooters in those three and groom them into what they are.
Camden, I need to know on what basis you found those three to have shooting skills before they got to Minnesota. I remember getting excited about seeing video of Towns pre-draft draining three after three unguarded in the gym, but then I remembered that even a proven non-shooter like Rubio looks great pre-game and at halftime. And I can remember getting excited at Target Center early in 2019 as I watched Culver make about 90% of his threes pre-game. There are very few NBA players who can't make an open shot. Heck, there's even video of RHJ making shot after shot in the gym, but it doesn't translate into game time. So all we really have to go on is their college 3-point results, which were not very impressive:
Love: 25% on 2 attempts per game
LaVine: 37.5% on 1.3 makes per game
KAT: 25% on only 8 attempts (and only 1 make per game even in HS!)
None of those stat lines jump out as overly impressive to me. In fact, none of them are as good as Josh Okogie's 38% on 4.2% his final year in college. You can say that each of them exhibited excellent form on their infrequent outside shots in college, but so did Wes Johnson, and his 42% on 3.5 attempts per game his final season was more impressive than any of the three. With all due respect, it takes a whole lot of hindsight to say anyone expected the three of them to be great 3-point shooters when they got to the pros. It would kinda be like me saying today I knew VanVleet was going to become a terrific 3-point shooter watching him at Wichita State. If you can't make 'em at a good clip in college, there's not much of an expectation of becoming a great 3-point shooter in the pros. I still think we're fortunate the Wolves were able to develop these three guys in a manner their college coaches, including the great Calipari, couldn't.
Kevin Love actually shot 35% in college.
There's also those who believe free throw shooting is the better indicator. Granted, Okogie and Rubio have been decent to good free throw shooters.
Whoops...bad typing skills. Yep, 35%...and he made fewer than one per game
I believe Love and KAT demonstrated the ability to hit outside shots consistently in their prep/AAU days. Coach Cal forced KAT into the post and discouraged him from taking outside shots.
And as Abe said, Love did shoot the ball decently at UCLA.
Okogie is a puzzle. His form is not horrible, but he is nowhere near making anything. Culver was a complete disaster of a pick if they didn't have a reputable shooting coach in place. The form is the worst I have seen, that coupled with the one really bad year of college FT shooting assumes the organization had a plan to work on this kid's shot. Maybe that is just an unfair assumption?
I think its fair to assume that none of Love, Zach, and KAT ever had a broken shot even if they never had volume shooting roles in college.
Camden wrote:The Wolves did not turn Kevin Love, Zach LaVine, and Karl-Anthony Towns into great shooters. I find that statement to be far off, respectfully. All three of those guys had the shooting skill long before they made it to Minnesota. Their opportunities grew, of course, but the Wolves did not take bad or poor shooters in those three and groom them into what they are.
Camden, I need to know on what basis you found those three to have shooting skills before they got to Minnesota. I remember getting excited about seeing video of Towns pre-draft draining three after three unguarded in the gym, but then I remembered that even a proven non-shooter like Rubio looks great pre-game and at halftime. And I can remember getting excited at Target Center early in 2019 as I watched Culver make about 90% of his threes pre-game. There are very few NBA players who can't make an open shot. Heck, there's even video of RHJ making shot after shot in the gym, but it doesn't translate into game time. So all we really have to go on is their college 3-point results, which were not very impressive:
Love: 25% on 2 attempts per game
LaVine: 37.5% on 1.3 makes per game
KAT: 25% on only 8 attempts (and only 1 make per game even in HS!)
None of those stat lines jump out as overly impressive to me. In fact, none of them are as good as Josh Okogie's 38% on 4.2% his final year in college. You can say that each of them exhibited excellent form on their infrequent outside shots in college, but so did Wes Johnson, and his 42% on 3.5 attempts per game his final season was more impressive than any of the three. With all due respect, it takes a whole lot of hindsight to say anyone expected the three of them to be great 3-point shooters when they got to the pros. It would kinda be like me saying today I knew VanVleet was going to become a terrific 3-point shooter watching him at Wichita State. If you can't make 'em at a good clip in college, there's not much of an expectation of becoming a great 3-point shooter in the pros. I still think we're fortunate the Wolves were able to develop these three guys in a manner their college coaches, including the great Calipari, couldn't.
I know you are newer around here so here is some context, Cam watches a ton of AAU and HS ball, he was huge into Kat coming into the draft and one of his main points was how good of a shooter Kat is. He loved Kat. Cam is a really polarizing figure this year, I like Cam a lot (we also agree a lot) but Cam has absolutely killed the draft process for many years outside of his Nik Stauskas miss. (I still love giving him shit for that). He loved Kat months before Wolves even got the #1 pick when there were arguments who should go #1 between Kat, Okafor and Dlo. Last year he loved Herro and was the #3 prospect on his board behind Zion and Morant. Cam has a really good reputation when it comes to draft prospects and he was for sure touting Kat shooting before the draft (I for one should know because I liked Kat but I argued many times that you can't just assume Kat will be a good shooter)
Camden wrote:The Wolves did not turn Kevin Love, Zach LaVine, and Karl-Anthony Towns into great shooters. I find that statement to be far off, respectfully. All three of those guys had the shooting skill long before they made it to Minnesota. Their opportunities grew, of course, but the Wolves did not take bad or poor shooters in those three and groom them into what they are.
Camden, I need to know on what basis you found those three to have shooting skills before they got to Minnesota. I remember getting excited about seeing video of Towns pre-draft draining three after three unguarded in the gym, but then I remembered that even a proven non-shooter like Rubio looks great pre-game and at halftime. And I can remember getting excited at Target Center early in 2019 as I watched Culver make about 90% of his threes pre-game. There are very few NBA players who can't make an open shot. Heck, there's even video of RHJ making shot after shot in the gym, but it doesn't translate into game time. So all we really have to go on is their college 3-point results, which were not very impressive:
Love: 25% on 2 attempts per game
LaVine: 37.5% on 1.3 makes per game
KAT: 25% on only 8 attempts (and only 1 make per game even in HS!)
None of those stat lines jump out as overly impressive to me. In fact, none of them are as good as Josh Okogie's 38% on 4.2% his final year in college. You can say that each of them exhibited excellent form on their infrequent outside shots in college, but so did Wes Johnson, and his 42% on 3.5 attempts per game his final season was more impressive than any of the three. With all due respect, it takes a whole lot of hindsight to say anyone expected the three of them to be great 3-point shooters when they got to the pros. It would kinda be like me saying today I knew VanVleet was going to become a terrific 3-point shooter watching him at Wichita State. If you can't make 'em at a good clip in college, there's not much of an expectation of becoming a great 3-point shooter in the pros. I still think we're fortunate the Wolves were able to develop these three guys in a manner their college coaches, including the great Calipari, couldn't.
I know you are newer around here so here is some context, Cam watches a ton of AAU and HS ball, he was huge into Kat coming into the draft and one of his main points was how good of a shooter Kat is. He loved Kat. Cam is a really polarizing figure this year, I like Cam a lot (we also agree a lot) but Cam has absolutely killed the draft process for many years outside of his Nik Stauskas miss. (I still love giving him shit for that). He loved Kat months before Wolves even got the #1 pick when there were arguments who should go #1 between Kat, Okafor and Dlo. Last year he loved Herro and was the #3 prospect on his board behind Zion and Morant. Cam has a really good reputation when it comes to draft prospects and he was for sure touting Kat shooting before the draft (I for one should know because I liked Kat but I argued many times that you can't just assume Kat will be a good shooter)
Yeah, in reviewing this year's draft threads, I did notice that Cam had a lot of good information when it came to college players...I found the thread quite informative. I don't watch a lot of college ball, so I tend to rely more on what the experts say when it comes to the draft (this year being the exception, when I ignored the majority of draft experts who were touting Ball). KAT was the only possible choice at #1 in his draft year in my opinion, even though some tried to make a case for Okafor...I never understood that. But I wanted him because his rebounding, defense and passing looked NBA-ready, and he looked like a guy who could score quite efficiently close to the basket. Bit it was quite the stretch to project a guy who only made 1 three-pointer per game in HS and only tried 8 his entire freshman year in college into a stud 3-point shooter merely because he had good form. And I suspect that if I went back and reviewed what is likely a very long draft thread in KAT's year, 3-point shooting would be far down the list of attributes most of us would have listed as why we wanted him at #1. I don't think many of us would have anticipated KAT making 41% of his threes on 8 attempts per game like he did last season when we drafted him. I think Flip, Thibs and Ryan deserve a lot of credit for developing him into the three-point shooter he never was in HS or college.
With Wiseman out with a sprained wrist, Andrew Wiggins was the tallest player of the 9 Warriors who played last night...and the Warriors beat the Mavs by 31! Even better, the Mavs started a front-line that was 7'3", 6'10" and 6'10", with 6'7" Doncik at PG. It must have been a bizarre sight watching the Warriors defending a team with such an extreme height advantage, but height just doesn't matter if you can make 22 out of 43 threes.
FNG wrote:With Wiseman out with a sprained wrist, Andrew Wiggins was the tallest player of the 9 Warriors who played last night...and the Warriors beat the Mavs by 31! Even better, the Mavs started a front-line that was 7'3", 6'10" and 6'10", with 6'7" Doncik at PG. It must have been a bizarre sight watching the Warriors defending a team with such an extreme height advantage, but height just doesn't matter if you can make 22 out of 43 threes.
Kelly Oubre started out the season embarrassingly bad. 2 - 30 on three pointers...
Golden State crept into the top 10 in defensive rating. Not bad with and aging Draymond, a rookie, and two wings who had been lambasted for their D in previous stops. We love helping other teams out I suppose. They'll look good with our pick (either as a trade chip or player) and Klay back next year.
I took the over on points for Steph Curry last night with a line of 28.5. When they took him out in the 3rd quarter, he had 28 points. The Warriors then proceeded to blow out the Mavs, allowing for Steph to remain on the bench for the entire 4th quarter. Yeah, I wasn't pissed or anything.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:I took the over on points for Steph Curry last night with a line of 28.5. When they took him out in the 3rd quarter, he had 28 points. The Warriors then proceeded to blow out the Mavs, allowing for Steph to remain on the bench for the entire 4th quarter. Yeah, I wasn't pissed or anything.
Nooo!!!! But look at it this way, Cool. At least you didn't have the Globetrotters plus 3 1/2 in that Generals 4-point upset...that would have really hurt!
