Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:KAT is a modern day center and that's where he's going to be the best through out his career. Just because you have a hard on for Jakob, it's not gonna change.
Towns is a stud. You won't find a bigger Towns fan than me on the board or anywhere else you'd care to look. The difference between you and I is that I'm confident that he's a star player at power forward or center. Great players produce regardless of "position" and that's where I'll let this debate rest.
TeamRicky wrote:I think Poeltl is an option if we drafted 8-12, but not if we keep the pick. There aren't many near sure things outside of Ingram, Simmons and perhaps Dunn and this is even true of Poeltl. I worry that he could end up being a slightly better version of Luc Longley. There are a number of bigs available in free agency that could be options instead of Poelt. While Horford is the dream, Mahinmi, Whiteside, Jefferson, Ezeli, Noah, Biyombo, Pachulia, Mozgov, Nene and Ty Zeller are some decent options. Yeah we don't get the third big on a rookie contract, but if we draft Poeltl, we don't get a talented rookie like Brown, Bender, Dunn, Hield or Valentine on a rookie deal.
And now I know why we're not seeing eye to eye on Poeltl. I'm not sure where that comparison came from, but I think it's a poor one. When Longley was a 20-year old sophomore at NMSU, he averaged 13.0 PPG and 6.8 RPG while shooting 57% from the floor in about the same number of minutes per game as Poeltl. Poeltl's posting better numbers than that (17.6 & 9.0 w/ 66.7% shooting) offensively and figures to be a much better rebounder and defender than Longley ever was in the NBA.
Side note: Why is Valentine in this conversation? I've seen you bring up his name in the group of guys you'd look at with our pick, but he shouldn't be picked near the top-five. That's too high, especially when you're downplaying Poeltl as a prospect.
One more thought: Why is it that if we draft Poeltl, we don't get a "talented rookie" like those wings you listed? Poeltl would be a talented rookie and he comes at a position of need with a chance to be a future starter. I'm not sold that any of those wings are going to be starters in Minnesota as long as LaVine and Wiggins are here. They're slated in as bench guys from the jump barring some major improvements.
I think Poeltl will be better than Longley and if you compare sophomore years clearly Poeltl is the better prospect (though Longley did have more blocks), but Longley posted decent number his last two years of college. His last two years Longley scored 18.4 and 19.1 points, 9.7 and 9.2 rebounds, 3.4 and 3.2 blocks. His last year he shot 65.6%. I didn't say Poltl will be Longley, I said its my fear.
I didn't mean to imply Poeltl isn't talented. He is, but I also don't see anything that special about his game to warrant using a top 5 pick on him. Maybe if I saw sufficient evidence of him being a defensive force, I could be swayed to change my opinion. I know the comparison used on him is Bogut, but maybe its because they are both white, the same size, foreign born and pretty skilled. His block numbers are good, but not great. How well does he defend the paint?
Towns will be best utilized as the Spurs used Duncan. He played both spots to their advantage and to keep him from getting beat up. If you can find a skilled 7'1" center to add to the mix you can do much worse than that. I watched some highlight clips of Jakob and he does have a bit of awkwardness to the way he moves which probably makes people wonder how good he is or isn't. He looks pretty skilled with his footwork and at a legit 7'1" he will have some size and length on slot of guys he will have in the NBA which has some significance. I am not absolutely sold on him or anything but I do like a guy that size at his age doing what he is doing at the college level.
Brown is a terrible fit here, Hield and Valentine aren't top 5 picks and Bender is a project that we don't need to waste a high pick on because he doesn't solve any of our defensive problems in the frontcourt and we already have two good offensive bigs on the team. Dunn is ok, but he comes with his flaws (his shooting is likely an anomaly and he's not doing much to carry his team to victory as their leader). I've been disappointed both times I've tuned in to watch him. The upside that some of you are hoping for isn't in this draft. Teams are going to be lucky to find a quality starter after the top 2. This is going to be a worse draft than the Bennett draft outside the top 2. So then you try to fill needs which for us are a backup PG and a defensive center who can rebound and significantly improve the second team defense. I think Dunn and Poeltl are about even and Poeltl fills a more important hole with the potential to start because Towns can play either spot. Dunn's only potential to start is to trade Ricky away (Ricky is never coming off the bench for us so don't try to argue it).
Why is nobody talking up Murray? We need a shooter, and he is a terrific shooter. I think he represents great value with our pick as well. I think he can play both guard spots. Would be a great pick for us.
If we went for a big, I'm very intruiged with Deyonta Davis in a trade down. The guy is a great athlete and a terrific shot blocker and rebounder. Very high upside. Would be my target in a trade down.
TRKO wrote:Why is nobody talking up Murray? We need a shooter, and he is a terrific shooter. I think he represents great value with our pick as well. I think he can play both guard spots. Would be a great pick for us.
If we went for a big, I'm very intruiged with Deyonta Davis in a trade down. The guy is a great athlete and a terrific shot blocker and rebounder. Very high upside. Would be my target in a trade down.
Murray can't defend. That's why I don't talk about him as much as other guys.
khans2k5 wrote:Brown is a terrible fit here, Hield and Valentine aren't top 5 picks and Bender is a project that we don't need to waste a high pick on because he doesn't solve any of our defensive problems in the frontcourt and we already have two good offensive bigs on the team. Dunn is ok, but he comes with his flaws (his shooting is likely an anomaly and he's not doing much to carry his team to victory as their leader). I've been disappointed both times I've tuned in to watch him. The upside that some of you are hoping for isn't in this draft. Teams are going to be lucky to find a quality starter after the top 2. This is going to be a worse draft than the Bennett draft outside the top 2. So then you try to fill needs which for us are a backup PG and a defensive center who can rebound and significantly improve the second team defense. I think Dunn and Poeltl are about even and Poeltl fills a more important hole with the potential to start because Towns can play either spot. Dunn's only potential to start is to trade Ricky away (Ricky is never coming off the bench for us so don't try to argue it).
Hield is rated ahead of Poetll and he addresses a need as much or if not more than Poeltl. http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft I think we can sign a big in free agency that can help as much as Poeltl can, but can we sign a player that has the upside of Buddy Hield in free agency?
I don't hate Poeltl but I am not convinced he's our best option. I like Poeltl more than I like Murray,
Rabb or Ellenson.
Hield metrics point to him being a Marcus Thorton type player. I wouldn't take him before Jakob or Valetine or Dunn. I am not certain i take him ocer Sabonis. As mentioned before Baldwin is a young guard I would like to know more about. Not sure he has the upside or shown enough to.be in the top 5 though.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Hield metrics point to him being a Marcus Thorton type player. I wouldn't take him before Jakob or Valetine or Dunn for that matter. As mentioned before Baldwin is a young guard I would like to know more about.
What metrics? I think Hield will be much better on both sides of the ball than Thornton. What do the metrics say about Dragan Bender? He is very fluid for a big man.
What metrics? I think Hield will be much better on both sides of the ball than Thornton. What do the metrics say about Dragan Bender? He is very fluid for a big man.
Go back in this thread. There is a link to how he is projected in the nba.
