Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I've given a lot of thought lately to what the Wolves should and likely will do. My prediction is that the Wolves will trade for Jimmy Butler. I'm convinced the Bulls are going enter full rebuild mode this summer and Butler will be their key to getting draft assets to jump start their rebuild. We will likely have a top 6 pick and could have a top 3, which the Bulls would covet. The Celtics will have the best collection of the sort of assets the Bulls would want in exchange for Butler. But Thibs' single-minded obsession with the guys he coached with the Bulls suggests he'll give up a lot to compete for Butler. If we end up with a top 3 pick, I guarantee we'll end up with Butler. If it's #6, then I'd say it's 60/40 we end up with Butler.

It is a possibility but I think you are way to harsh on Thibs saying he has an obsession with his former players.

Butler: Rumored lavine and draft rights for Dunn on draft night trade not made.

Deng: rumored on him in the offseason, not on team.

Noah: Same as Deng rumored but not on the team.

Rose: all we heard is it was a done deal rubio for rose. Well no trade was made.

Gasol: The one player I think we tried hard to get not on the team.

Snell: Rumored near the trade deadline. Not on the team.

For all his obsession over these players none are on the roster. Makes it feel to me that the media is trying to connect the dots that are not there.

Geek -- Your list can cut both ways. I think it illustrates my point. By all media accounts, Thibs pursued all the guys you mentioned. No reports at all about him pursuing any other players via trade or free agency. That he pursued all these guys and no others to speak of is more telling than the fact that none of them ended up here. Apparently, our trade offers weren't enough for non-free agents and the money wasn't enough for the free agents. Or maybe the free agents didn't like playing for Thibs.

I guess all these reports from multiple sources could have been fake news manufactured by the sports media. But where there's smoke there tends to be fire.

So I guess those Reggie Jackson rumors never happened and we didn't sign 3 free agents who weren't Bulls when we had the money to sign any of the ones we wanted.

Wow, you sure got me there, Kahns. Thibs was rumored to have pursued 7 players through trades or free agency and one of them, Reggie Jackson, wasn't a former Bull when he was coaching there. Hmm. No doubt, most or even all the reports could have been wrong or grossly exaggerated -- including the report that the Wolves were engaged in trade talks for Reggie. But assuming the reports were true, then Thibs sure seems to have a pretty laser-like focus on pursuing players he coached with the Bulls unless you assume that what Thibs does is only reported when it involves Bulls players -- except of course in the case of Reggie Jackson.

The fact that none of these players, including Reggie, didn't sign here or weren't traded here doesn't change the apparent scope of Thibs' pursuit. It just tells us who ended up here. That we didn't end up with any of these guys tells us that Thibs is not willing to spend or give up anything to get guys he wants -- and that's a good thing, which I've praised in previous threads. It might tell us something about a lack of enthusiasm among former players at the prospect of playing for Thibs again, but that's more speculative. Of course, Thibs has only had one summer and season with us so far. So let's see what he does this summer.

I do know Thibs is very interested in Butler and that comes from a friend of mine who is close to someone high up inside the Bulls organization. That shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us since there are lots of good reasons for the Wolves to be interested in Butler and Thibs knows Butler well. But my friend's contact with the Bulls seems to believe that Thibs will give up a lot this summer to get Jimmy. They're counting on that. Apparently, last summer the Bulls didn't want to trade Butler because, at the time, they wanted to give their current roster one more shot. I'm told the Bulls have flipped and now see the need to start rebuilding.

By the way, I'm told that no one in the Bulls organization likes Thibs, but contrary to speculation they are perfectly happy to do a deal with him if they think the deal's a good one for them. And they think Thibs is so intensely interested in Butler that the Bulls will end up with what they consider a favorable deal. But Thibs could certainly be outbid by another team like the Celtics. Just what I've heard. We'll see.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I've given a lot of thought lately to what the Wolves should and likely will do. My prediction is that the Wolves will trade for Jimmy Butler. I'm convinced the Bulls are going enter full rebuild mode this summer and Butler will be their key to getting draft assets to jump start their rebuild. We will likely have a top 6 pick and could have a top 3, which the Bulls would covet. The Celtics will have the best collection of the sort of assets the Bulls would want in exchange for Butler. But Thibs' single-minded obsession with the guys he coached with the Bulls suggests he'll give up a lot to compete for Butler. If we end up with a top 3 pick, I guarantee we'll end up with Butler. If it's #6, then I'd say it's 60/40 we end up with Butler.

It is a possibility but I think you are way to harsh on Thibs saying he has an obsession with his former players.

Butler: Rumored lavine and draft rights for Dunn on draft night trade not made.

Deng: rumored on him in the offseason, not on team.

Noah: Same as Deng rumored but not on the team.

Rose: all we heard is it was a done deal rubio for rose. Well no trade was made.

Gasol: The one player I think we tried hard to get not on the team.

Snell: Rumored near the trade deadline. Not on the team.

For all his obsession over these players none are on the roster. Makes it feel to me that the media is trying to connect the dots that are not there.

Geek -- Your list can cut both ways. I think it illustrates my point. By all media accounts, Thibs pursued all the guys you mentioned. No reports at all about him pursuing any other players via trade or free agency. That he pursued all these guys and no others to speak of is more telling than the fact that none of them ended up here. Apparently, our trade offers weren't enough for non-free agents and the money wasn't enough for the free agents. Or maybe the free agents didn't like playing for Thibs.

I guess all these reports from multiple sources could have been fake news manufactured by the sports media. But where there's smoke there tends to be fire.

So I guess those Reggie Jackson rumors never happened and we didn't sign 3 free agents who weren't Bulls when we had the money to sign any of the ones we wanted.

Wow, you sure got me there, Kahns. Thibs was rumored to have pursued 7 players through trades or free agency and one of them, Reggie Jackson, wasn't a former Bull when he was coaching there. Hmm. No doubt, most or even all the reports could have been wrong or grossly exaggerated -- including the report that the Wolves were engaged in trade talks for Reggie. But assuming the reports were true, then Thibs sure seems to have a pretty laser-like focus on pursuing players he coached with the Bulls unless you assume that what Thibs does is only reported when it involves Bulls players -- except of course in the case of Reggie Jackson.

The fact that none of these players, including Reggie, didn't sign here or weren't traded here doesn't change the apparent scope of Thibs' pursuit. It just tells us who ended up here. That we didn't end up with any of these guys tells us that Thibs is not willing to spend or give up anything to get guys he wants -- and that's a good thing, which I've praised in previous threads. It might tell us something about a lack of enthusiasm among former players at the prospect of playing for Thibs again, but that's more speculative. Of course, Thibs has only had one summer and season with us so far. So let's see what he does this summer.

I do know Thibs is very interested in Butler and that comes from a friend of mine who is close to someone high up inside the Bulls organization. That shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us since there are lots of good reasons for the Wolves to be interested in Butler and Thibs knows Butler well. But my friend's contact with the Bulls seems to believe that Thibs will give up a lot this summer to get Jimmy. They're counting on that. Apparently, last summer the Bulls didn't want to trade Butler because, at the time, they wanted to give their current roster one more shot. I'm told the Bulls have flipped and now see the need to start rebuilding.

By the way, I'm told that no one in the Bulls organization likes Thibs, but contrary to speculation they are perfectly happy to do a deal with him if they think the deal's a good one for them. And they think Thibs is so intensely interested in Butler that the Bulls will end up with what they consider a favorable deal. But Thibs could certainly be outbid by another team like the Celtics. Just what I've heard. We'll see.

Thanks for the info. You could have lead with that to begin with but instead you led us along. :)

I'll say this about the Thibs will do whatever to get his guy thing...I'm not convinced of that. We heard that stuff about Rose and it was crap. How do we know Lavine isn't one of Thibs guys now? What exactly kind of crazy deal do the Bulls think they are going to get? I'm not trying to poop on your info because there certainly merit to what you have shared. However I've seen all kinds of reports for months that Thibs is all in on his guy or a guy that fits his style or whatever and none of it has come to pass yet. Remember when Lucas was the 3rd PG and Tyus was gonna get traded? Yep. Remember for months Rubio was gonna be traded and Thibs didn't like him only for Rubio to go on to have a career year playing under him? There is some legit reason to be skeptical of this stuff too. If Bitler is available for a price there will be a number of teams that will have some intruiging offers including the Lakers especially if they keep their draft pick.

If we want to go big, I'd rather go after Otto Porter than Jimmy Butler. Its primarily because of the age difference, and I like how Porter would fit in our lineup, and the thought that Porter might come more cheaply (but not sure of that). Another bonus is that part of the deal would be signing Porter to a 4 or 5 year deal so that we'd control him much longer than two years for Butler.

Otto Porter is 23 and Butler is 27 (though they will be 24 and 28 before the season starts, respectively). Porter is restricted and I'd be willing to sign him (up to the max if necessary) and give something to Washington to not match (I doubt Belly would be enough, so our 1st rounder would likely be required). I am willing to give up one big time asset for Butler or Porter, but not multiple big time assets. Dunn might be appealing to Chicago, but Washington has Wall. Reasonable deals would be Dunn plus either Lavine or 6 (not all three) for Butler or Belly and 6 for Porter.

I love the draft this year, so I am not sold on needing to make a trade. Getting Jackson, Isaac or Tatum gets us a talented two way wing that is only 19, which lengthens our window to contend.

Why couldn't Cleveland have drafted Otto Porter instead of Bennett and traded him along with Wiggins to us for Love? Porter didn't play much his first year, so its not a stretch that he could have been thrown in.

If we can get Butler without giving up our main 3 I am all for it, otherwise absolutely not I don't think he's even a 2nd option on a championship team

Washington isn't giving up Porter they are battlng for the ECF in win now mode, they have to max him

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I've given a lot of thought lately to what the Wolves should and likely will do. My prediction is that the Wolves will trade for Jimmy Butler. I'm convinced the Bulls are going enter full rebuild mode this summer and Butler will be their key to getting draft assets to jump start their rebuild. We will likely have a top 6 pick and could have a top 3, which the Bulls would covet. The Celtics will have the best collection of the sort of assets the Bulls would want in exchange for Butler. But Thibs' single-minded obsession with the guys he coached with the Bulls suggests he'll give up a lot to compete for Butler. If we end up with a top 3 pick, I guarantee we'll end up with Butler. If it's #6, then I'd say it's 60/40 we end up with Butler.

It is a possibility but I think you are way to harsh on Thibs saying he has an obsession with his former players.

Butler: Rumored lavine and draft rights for Dunn on draft night trade not made.

Deng: rumored on him in the offseason, not on team.

Noah: Same as Deng rumored but not on the team.

Rose: all we heard is it was a done deal rubio for rose. Well no trade was made.

Gasol: The one player I think we tried hard to get not on the team.

Snell: Rumored near the trade deadline. Not on the team.

For all his obsession over these players none are on the roster. Makes it feel to me that the media is trying to connect the dots that are not there.

Geek -- Your list can cut both ways. I think it illustrates my point. By all media accounts, Thibs pursued all the guys you mentioned. No reports at all about him pursuing any other players via trade or free agency. That he pursued all these guys and no others to speak of is more telling than the fact that none of them ended up here. Apparently, our trade offers weren't enough for non-free agents and the money wasn't enough for the free agents. Or maybe the free agents didn't like playing for Thibs.

I guess all these reports from multiple sources could have been fake news manufactured by the sports media. But where there's smoke there tends to be fire.

So I guess those Reggie Jackson rumors never happened and we didn't sign 3 free agents who weren't Bulls when we had the money to sign any of the ones we wanted.

Wow, you sure got me there, Kahns. Thibs was rumored to have pursued 7 players through trades or free agency and one of them, Reggie Jackson, wasn't a former Bull when he was coaching there. Hmm. No doubt, most or even all the reports could have been wrong or grossly exaggerated -- including the report that the Wolves were engaged in trade talks for Reggie. But assuming the reports were true, then Thibs sure seems to have a pretty laser-like focus on pursuing players he coached with the Bulls unless you assume that what Thibs does is only reported when it involves Bulls players -- except of course in the case of Reggie Jackson.

The fact that none of these players, including Reggie, didn't sign here or weren't traded here doesn't change the apparent scope of Thibs' pursuit. It just tells us who ended up here. That we didn't end up with any of these guys tells us that Thibs is not willing to spend or give up anything to get guys he wants -- and that's a good thing, which I've praised in previous threads. It might tell us something about a lack of enthusiasm among former players at the prospect of playing for Thibs again, but that's more speculative. Of course, Thibs has only had one summer and season with us so far. So let's see what he does this summer.

I do know Thibs is very interested in Butler and that comes from a friend of mine who is close to someone high up inside the Bulls organization. That shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us since there are lots of good reasons for the Wolves to be interested in Butler and Thibs knows Butler well. But my friend's contact with the Bulls seems to believe that Thibs will give up a lot this summer to get Jimmy. They're counting on that. Apparently, last summer the Bulls didn't want to trade Butler because, at the time, they wanted to give their current roster one more shot. I'm told the Bulls have flipped and now see the need to start rebuilding.

By the way, I'm told that no one in the Bulls organization likes Thibs, but contrary to speculation they are perfectly happy to do a deal with him if they think the deal's a good one for them. And they think Thibs is so intensely interested in Butler that the Bulls will end up with what they consider a favorable deal. But Thibs could certainly be outbid by another team like the Celtics. Just what I've heard. We'll see.

We had the trade assets and money to get any one of his former players he wanted to last season. A "single-minded obsessed" coach would get his guy(s). He's not obsessed if he's holding out for the right deal. That's called being a good POBO. He'd be crazy not to want a large chunk of the players who helped him consistently be a top team in the East. The fact remains we had the assets and the money to get several of them and we currently have none of them on the roster. That doesn't sound like much of an obsession to me.

BloopOracle wrote:If we can get Butler without giving up our main 3 I am all for it, otherwise absolutely not I don't think he's even a 2nd option on a championship team

Washington isn't giving up Porter they are battlng for the ECF in win now mode, they have to max him

Its funny a year ago, Porter's stock was not nearly this high. There was some talk that Oubre could even start. Not many expected this monster season from Porter though. He ended up in the top 6 for True Shooting Percentage and made over 43% from beyond the arc.

TeamRicky wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:If we can get Butler without giving up our main 3 I am all for it, otherwise absolutely not I don't think he's even a 2nd option on a championship team

Washington isn't giving up Porter they are battlng for the ECF in win now mode, they have to max him

Its funny a year ago, Porter's stock was not nearly this high. There was some talk that Oubre could even start. Not many expected this monster season from Porter though. He ended up in the top 6 for True Shooting Percentage and made over 43% from beyond the arc.

Ok not trying to be a jerk here but I don't think Otto Porter would be as successful here. In Washington he is guarded by the opposing team 3rd best perimeter defender. I mean Isiah Thomas is guarding him in the series.

Also it is easier to get quality looks when the help needs to come to stop a driving wall. Rubio even though a very good passer and can hit him in the shooting pocket but rubio does not the same threat wall is off the dribble so less good looks for Porter

Its funny how many young players have blossomed playing for Scott Brooks. KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden, and now Porter, Wall and Beal all improved a lot, especially Porter.

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Alright... what about this...

Tony Parker might be done. Let's say the Spurs want space for a run at Chris Paul or George Hill (a Pop favorite). Pau Gasol is on the books at $16M (player option).

Reports are that Thibodeau wanted him last year.
The Wolves have plenty of cap room.
He's a big... and not completely done.
He's a veteran with legit winning experience.
It's only one year. But it could lead to more wins/development without compromising the future.

And, perhaps most importantly, he can be had for cheap. The Spurs will need to move him for the cap space and not so much for what they get in return.

Thoughts?


[Note: Actually, scratch Chris Paul. The guy is in line to make $200M from the Clippers. I can't see him taking THAT much of a paycut.]

I'd love to pick up Pau on the cheap. I do think it's plausible because I think Paul's competitive nature will drive him to seek a team that has a good chance of winning a title while he's still young enough to be a core piece.

Wait. What?

But SAS won 61 games. Minnesota won 31 games.