Rudy Gobert to the Timberwolves

[Q-is-here]

I thought about Kris Dunn. He can be a one man wrecking crew at the point of attack. Just incredible strength, doggedness, and quick hands for a guard. But man, he's a wrecking crew in a bad way on offense with loose handles and a horrible shot. Another draft pick I was kinda excited about and got completely wrong!

[Monster]

Karl-Anthony Towns is "over the moon" about the Rudy Gobert trade and the roster is "doing cartwheels," especially D'Angelo Russell, via @DWolfsonKSTP's podcast.

Well, that's the two guys that benefit most from this trade, so not surprised they are happy. Let's hope they don't expect Rudy to do all the dirty work though! We still need KAT and DLO to defend!

Finch needs a defensive leader on the roster with PBev gone. Who is going to be the tone-setter with everyone else so that Rudy isn't always left on an island?

Q - I agree we need a defensive leader - a hard-nosed defender with a log of dog in him. Can you think of any current free agents who fit that mold?

I looked at Cam's list of names and none jumped out to me. Is Rondo a leader anymore or is that guy just a vagabond cashing a check at this point?

Ya know, I wasn't interested in him when his name was being thrown out there a week or two ago, but now that we are literally trying to contend (!!), PJ Tucker suddenly comes to mind as a guy we could have used...perhaps at the expense of using the MLE on Kyle Anderson. I know he doesn't play PG, but that's a guy you want in the trenches with you come playoff time.

What about Avery Bradley? I didn't see him on Cam's list, but I think he's still available as an unrestricted free agent. He's always been a very good defender, 3-point shooter and ball-handler. He's also always had durability issues, but so did Beverley. I think Bradley and Beverley are about the same age.

For what it's worth, Avery Bradley missed 87 games combined over the past three seasons. He also appeared to have lost a step defensively from what I saw of him and his defensive metrics continue to climb in the wrong direction, although that's not entirely his fault. I think Bradley's more reputation than production at this point in his career, but I'm open to hearing alternative views. At 31-years old, he should still have a couple worthy seasons left in him, but I don't think he's trending in the right direction, personally. I know Lakers fans think he's washed.

I pretty much assumed he's washed up. His durability issues have been far greater than Beverley's. But the pickings are slim. I wouldn't bother with Rondo either. I don't there's anything left in his tank except a sour attitude. I'm intrigued by the Kris Dunn. but hard to know whether he's back from his two-year leg injury. Dunn was quoted recently saying it felt like he only had one leg the past two years. He said he's starting to feel normal again. Hmm. Not sure.

FWIW not that I am stumping for Avery Bradley (how is he still only 31?!?) but even a few years ago when he was still playing a decent chunk of games and defending well a lot of advanced stats said he wasn't good on that end. I know I didn't watch him game in game out but when I did he looked pretty good on that end to me. I know some people that worked or had worked in the league said those stats somehow missed the value of him on that end because he still was a very impactful defender. I think a lot of guys on the Lakers looked washed and some of them probably were but I would not be surprised if a couple guys go elsewhere or if they return tot he Lakers they play better. Something was just off last year and I think it was a combination of things no one person was to blame.

[Monster]

I thought about Kris Dunn. He can be a one man wrecking crew at the point of attack. Just incredible strength, doggedness, and quick hands for a guard. But man, he's a wrecking crew in a bad way on offense with loose handles and a horrible shot. Another draft pick I was kinda excited about and got completely wrong!

You had Dunn mostly right in that draft. If Dunn was able to stay healthy he would have a shot at being a Marcus Smart type guy. I think all those injuries hurt his shot which was never good but it wasn't as bad as the last could years...I recently looked and shuttered I didn't realize it was that bad. Lol still we are talking about a bench guy who the last season 2019-2020 he played over half the season advanced stats had him as a massive plus as a defender. Was that real? Can he stay healthy? I think his D is real but him staying healthy is a tough ask. For the vet min depending on the other options if he looks healthy in SL it might be worth a shot to hope he stays healthy.

[Lipoli390]

We need a guard who's a defensive dog who can also handle the ball or shoot the three. I don't see any viable free agents guards who even fit the defensive dog criterion. And we don't have the assets to trade for one either.

[Phenom]

What about Lance Stephenson?

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

Thank you for coherently articulating your position D-Loser. I actually think you have some intelligent insights, but it's hard to take them seriously when you use bombast and exaggeration. You're right - it's an unmoderated message board, freedom of speech, yada, yada yada....you can say whatever you want to say.

As for your proposal, I actually don't view it as significantly different, especially in light of the Wolves not having to give up any of their top three existing assets. And based on that, it seems like a really short distance between your definition of a smart deal and an allegedly lazy, idiotic imbecile that, despite his incompetence, just increased our odds of winning a title by 3X according to you!

You think 2 first round picks and more protection on another as my FINAL offer is a short distance??? Ok, whatever you say. I'm trying to work on being nice on here, so I'm just going to leave it at that.

But yeah, TC is nothing short of a lazy, irresponsible idiot for making this trade. I'm not backing off that an inch.

EDIT - Exactly as I described in my previous post, my FINAL offer in exact detail...

Bev
Beasley
Bolmaro
Vando
2023 unprotected
2025 unprotected
2027 lottery protected

OR

Beverly
Beasley
Vando
Kessler
2023 unprotected
2025 lottery protected
2027 lottery protected

There you go Q, I'm spelling it out for you exact, because I know how my posts suck and lack enough detail for you :)

This is my final offer, meaning I'm not thrilled to give this up but if this is what it takes, let's go for it.

I happen to think there's a pretty massive difference between these proposed versions and the trade we ultimately made.

[Monster]

We need a guard who's a defensive dog who can also handle the ball or shoot the three. I don't see any viable free agents guards who even fit the defensive dog criterion. And we don't have the assets to trade for one either.

Guys that can do those 3 things (sometimes even 2 of them) are pretty hard to find so it's no surprise that there is nobody available at this point. I think for that guard spot we may be looking for a while so I'm ready for Summer league to start!

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

Q, one more thing, please give me an example of what I'm exaggerating. I genuinely think Dlo is a loser as a max level starting pg and I also think TC is showing himself to be a lazy, irresponsible idiot as an executive making 8 mil a year... so I hope you were referring to something else by saying that I "exaggerate".

Also, for the 86th freaking time, yeah I think this move increases our title odds 3x in the next four years, but I also said that I think there were several other cheaper/smarter moves that could have increased our title odds almost as much (2.5 x) over the next four years.

I think I've defended myself on everything. If you don't like me calling people idiots or losers, i totally get that, although I think they're making plenty of money to handle it from a stupid chat board. I'll start saying that TC is apparently in over his head when making trades and DLo is an underachiever... you'll know what I really mean though :)

[Q-is-here]

Q, one more thing, please give me an example of what I'm exaggerating. I genuinely think Dlo is a loser as a max level starting pg and I also think TC is showing himself to be a lazy, irresponsible idiot as an executive making 8 mil a year... so I hope you were referring to something else by saying that I "exaggerate".

Also, for the 86th freaking time, yeah I think this move increases our title odds 3x in the next four years, but I also said that I think there were several other cheaper/smarter moves that could have increased our title odds almost as much (2.5 x) over the next four years.

I think I've defended myself on everything. If you don't like me calling people idiots or losers, i totally get that, although I think they're making plenty of money to handle it from a stupid chat board. I'll start saying that TC is apparently in over his head when making trades and DLo is an underachiever... you'll know what I really mean though :)

- If you think DLO is a loser than not only are you exaggerating, you are simply wrong on the facts. He's literally not a loser based on his Net Rating with the Wolves and their record with him playing versus not playing. I will agree that he is not worth the contract he's being paid, but he's not the one that gave himself a max deal nor does it make him a loser. Again, call him whatever you want! Heck, even I think we'd be better off eventually moving on from DLO, but I'm also not in denial about how he helped this team win games last season.

- Your comments on TC are just insults with no basis or understanding of what other stakeholders wanted, including the ownership group. The fact I have to defend TC as not being a lazy, incompetent GM is silly on its face.

- And lastly, no, your offer vs. the offer the Wolves ultimately reached with Utah is not that different in my eyes. Quality always trumps quantity in the NBA. We got the best paint protector in the last 20 years without giving up any of our top players. So for you to say the deal you came up with is sound strategy and the deal TC came up with is the work of a lazy imbecile is - yes - a gross exaggeration.

I appreciate you engaging in this debate.

[Lipoli390]

Q, one more thing, please give me an example of what I'm exaggerating. I genuinely think Dlo is a loser as a max level starting pg and I also think TC is showing himself to be a lazy, irresponsible idiot as an executive making 8 mil a year... so I hope you were referring to something else by saying that I "exaggerate".

Also, for the 86th freaking time, yeah I think this move increases our title odds 3x in the next four years, but I also said that I think there were several other cheaper/smarter moves that could have increased our title odds almost as much (2.5 x) over the next four years.

I think I've defended myself on everything. If you don't like me calling people idiots or losers, i totally get that, although I think they're making plenty of money to handle it from a stupid chat board. I'll start saying that TC is apparently in over his head when making trades and DLo is an underachiever... you'll know what I really mean though :)

- If you think DLO is a loser than not only are you exaggerating, you are simply wrong on the facts. He's literally not a loser based on his Net Rating with the Wolves and their record with him playing versus not playing. I will agree that he is not worth the contract he's being paid, but he's not the one that gave himself a max deal nor does it make him a loser. Again, call him whatever you want! Heck, even I think we'd be better off eventually moving on from DLO, but I'm also not in denial about how he helped this team win games last season.

- Your comments on TC are just insults with no basis or understanding of what other stakeholders wanted, including the ownership group. The fact I have to defend TC as not being a lazy, incompetent GM is silly on its face.

- And lastly, no, your offer vs. the offer the Wolves ultimately reached with Utah is not that different in my eyes. Quality always trumps quantity in the NBA. We got the best paint protector in the last 20 years without giving up any of our top players. So for you to say the deal you came up with is sound strategy and the deal TC came up with is the work of a lazy imbecile is - yes - a gross exaggeration.

I appreciate you engaging in this debate.

I don't want to get in the middle of this heated debate. :) But I do agree with DL that his suggested deal retaining Kessler is materially better for the Wolves than the deal Connelly made.

DL's deal would have kept Kessler, kept the Wolves' 2029 first-round pick and put full lottery protection on the 2027 pick with no 2026 pick swap. Added together, those differences strike me as significant. Lottery protection on the 2027 pick is particularly significant because that draft will be a year removed from the expiration of Gobert's contract. In other words, Gobert won't even be with the Wolves the season leading up to that draft unless he signs a new contract - and if he remains here he'll be 34 and who knows what shape he'll be in. If nothing else, I think it's problematic to give up unprotected 1st-round picks in years beyond when you can be certain the player you're trading for will even be with the team or in years when the acquired player will no longer be in his prime. Finally, retaining Kessler would have been a big deal (pun intended). He's someone who could potentially develop into a Gobert-like player to provide insurance and continuity over time in the face of any uncertainties regarding Gobert. Moreover, retaining young talent like Kessler becomes even more important when you're trading away multiple first round picks.

In any event, here's the materiality test: Would Utah have made DL's suggested deal? I think the answer is no - precisely because it would have been significantly better for the Wolves and, therefore, worse for Utah.

And I don't think anyone else in the League was going to give Utah a package as good as the one the Wolves gave them - especially with Durant in play, which likely had some potential Gobert-suitors holding their assets for a potential run at Durant. I think the Wolves front office were so intent on getting Gobert that group-think took over and getting him because a self-fulfilling prophesy. I've worked with a lot of companies over the years on big merger deals and I've watched top executives increasingly ignore risks (and contrary facts) as they became increasingly attached to the idea of making the deal. The best companies I've advised would always resist that impulse. In this case, among other things, the laser focus on getting Gobert caused Connelly and his front office team to pass on a deal for Murray that would have required significantly fewer assets, provided far more financial flexibility over the next two years and aligned better developmentally with the age of our cornerstone talent Anthony Edwards.

It's fair to get excited about this deal. In fact, those of us who would not have done this deal, including me and DL, have acknowledged that the deal instantly makes the Wolves substantially better. But it's also fair to consider how much better the Wolves would have gotten both organically, via free agency and through other far less costly for Capela, Myles Turner or (as we now know) Murray - deals that would have required much less from the Wolves and been far better for future financial flexibility to maneuver. Every asset the Wolves gave up - Beverley, Beasley, Kessler, Bolmaro and all the picks - were not only potential players for the Wolves but also potential trade assets for any number of deals to improve the talent around KAT, Edwards and McDaniels. The outgoing picks prevent the Wolves from making any deals that include future 1st-round picks. That's a huge constraint that can't be overlooked or taken lightly.

As you said, Q - this trade was a ballsy move by Connelly. But I also think it's fair for DL to call it lazy. What I think he means is that it spares Connelly the hard work of finishing the Wolves building process through multiple more savvy moves. I'd say the deal was ballsy, but not particularly savvy. TC threw a bunch of assets at a team looking to get rid of a huge contract and start a rebuild process. Anyone could have done that. This deal was sort of a "set-it-and-forget-it" move with little more for Connelly to do now other than scrounge around for a couple veteran role-players willing to come here on minimum vet contracts. I probably wouldn't characterize the deal as lazy, but I see DL's point. I'd just characterize the deal as too risky, a bit ill-considered and the product of unjustified impatience. I say unjustified because the team was on a solid upward trajectory with a 20-year old likely star in the middle of his rookie deal and another star who wasn't a threat to leave. This team is mainly Ant's team. Pairing the 20 year old Ant with a 30-year old Gobert seems like a pretty poor alignment.

But like any ballsy move, this one could pay off for Connelly and the Wolves. The KAT/Gobert pair in is fascinating. So I'm definitely hoping for the best. And I'm excited to see what this group can do.