Minnesota Sports Forum

Lip, Appreciate your comments as I know you are not in favor of the deal.

- GMs, CEOs, Presidents, etc. are ultimately paid to make the big decisions. Period. How many hours they work, what processes they implement, who they hire around them is all secondary to that. TC made a big decision that may or may not work out. I would never characterize what he did as lazy or ill-considered. He did exactly what he's paid to do. You certainly don't have to agree with that decision.

- Do you not think Lore and A-Rod have their fingerprints on this? Do you think those two guys think this was a lazy, ill-considered move? This would have never happened without those two in the picture. So to pin this all on TC as if he works in a total vacuum with no other stakeholders is in and of itself a lazy statement. We knew what we were getting with these east coast owners - they think big and want to take risks. Well, here we are!

- Your groupthink analogy is valid. I've been on both the acquiring and getting acquired side of the table and seen it happen multiple times.

- I believe the perceived overpay is due to two things: 1) The front office believed, right or wrong, that Gobert was THE ideal component to add to the roster - like a once-in-a-career chance to get the perfect player to fill the biggest hole in the roster. 2) Utah asked for Jaden McDaniels. The only way to not give up Jaden was to give in on more draft picks. Depending on how you feel about Jaden, that may or may not have been the right decision.

- I actually think the hard work is just beginning. TC will have a lot of work to do to fill in the existing holes and use his knack for unearthing late 1st/2nd round talent to fill in whatever gaps remain.

Acquiring en elite player in the NBA isn't "lazy" or "idiotic" and I think we need to be really careful throwing that around. It's a calculated investment in a player that is very likely to be significantly better than anything that was given up for him. It's also clear from the reports we have that Minnesota was diligently looking to make a splash this off-season and increase their ceiling, and they worked through various trade targets as well as potential free agent signings. They certainly did that, and they retained their best young talents in the process, which isn't being valued enough given that known prospects exceed unknown draft picks more times than not. Additionally, it's now known that this trade came close to not happening as Tim Connelly and this front office stood firm in holding on to Jaden McDaniels. Utah relented and eventually accepted a deal in which the No. 22 overall pick Walker Kessler could be the highest pick exchanged if all goes right.

What would have been actually lazy would have been for Connelly to make this trade on draft night moving Patrick Beverley, Malik Beasley, Jarred Vanderbilt, Leandro Bolmaro -- all salary matching contracts -- as well as Jaden McDaniels, the 19th overall pick, and three additional first-round picks. That was potentially discussed and walked away from. Instead Connelly and the front office navigated the draft with precision -- adding multiple young pieces that could have value in trades while knowing that they were planning on trading future picks for win now talent. It turns out that those efforts helped them in this deal.

I think we can logically argue that Minnesota overpaid, but not by much when you break it down. We can also agree that the salary cap and luxury tax threshold will pose serious concerns in the future. What I think is a reach is to conclude that Connelly took the "lazy" or "easy" way out or that Gobert wasn't the best player they could have acquired besides Kevin Durant. While Dejounte Murray, Myles Turner, and Clint Capela would have been very fine additions and ones we could have rallied around, none of them push the Timberwolves into championship contention. Gobert likely does that, or at least gets them in that conversation.

Q-was-here wrote:Lip, Appreciate your comments as I know you are not in favor of the deal.

- GMs, CEOs, Presidents, etc. are ultimately paid to make the big decisions. Period. How many hours they work, what processes they implement, who they hire around them is all secondary to that. TC made a big decision that may or may not work out. I would never characterize what he did as lazy or ill-considered. He did exactly what he's paid to do. You certainly don't have to agree with that decision.

- Do you not think Lore and A-Rod have their fingerprints on this? Do you think those two guys think this was a lazy, ill-considered move? This would have never happened without those two in the picture. So to pin this all on TC as if he works in a total vacuum with no other stakeholders is in and of itself a lazy statement. We knew what we were getting with these east coast owners - they think big and want to take risks. Well, here we are!

- Your groupthink analogy is valid. I've been on both the acquiring and getting acquired side of the table and seen it happen multiple times.

- I believe the perceived overpay is due to two things: 1) The front office believed, right or wrong, that Gobert was THE ideal component to add to the roster - like a once-in-a-career chance to get the perfect player to fill the biggest hole in the roster. 2) Utah asked for Jaden McDaniels. The only way to not give up Jaden was to give in on more draft picks. Depending on how you feel about Jaden, that may or may not have been the right decision.

- I actually think the hard work is just beginning. TC will have a lot of work to do to fill in the existing holes and use his knack for unearthing late 1st/2nd round talent to fill in whatever gaps remain.

Q - I appreciate your comments as I know you are in favor of the deal. :). I'll add that I don't think TC is lazy or that he and his front office staff didn't work hard to make this deal happen; I was just noting that I can see DL's point. I think it is harder to resist the impulse for a big score in favor of making a lot of more surgical decisions over time. I think that's the point DL was trying to make with his lazy reference. As for my use of the term, ill-considered - it means badly thought out. So maybe my characterization was a bit too much in that regard, but you know what I mean.

Connelly was hired to complete the construction of a championship caliber team. That's what he's paid to do. He's not paid to make big ballsy moves. But if this big ballsy move turns the Wolves into a bona fide championship contender over the next four years, then I'd say that Connelly earned his pay. :)

Q-was-here wrote:Lip, Appreciate your comments as I know you are not in favor of the deal.

- GMs, CEOs, Presidents, etc. are ultimately paid to make the big decisions. Period. How many hours they work, what processes they implement, who they hire around them is all secondary to that. TC made a big decision that may or may not work out. I would never characterize what he did as lazy or ill-considered. He did exactly what he's paid to do. You certainly don't have to agree with that decision.

- Do you not think Lore and A-Rod have their fingerprints on this? Do you think those two guys think this was a lazy, ill-considered move? This would have never happened without those two in the picture. So to pin this all on TC as if he works in a total vacuum with no other stakeholders is in and of itself a lazy statement. We knew what we were getting with these east coast owners - they think big and want to take risks. Well, here we are!

- Your groupthink analogy is valid. I've been on both the acquiring and getting acquired side of the table and seen it happen multiple times.

- I believe the perceived overpay is due to two things: 1) The front office believed, right or wrong, that Gobert was THE ideal component to add to the roster - like a once-in-a-career chance to get the perfect player to fill the biggest hole in the roster. 2) Utah asked for Jaden McDaniels. The only way to not give up Jaden was to give in on more draft picks. Depending on how you feel about Jaden, that may or may not have been the right decision.

- I actually think the hard work is just beginning. TC will have a lot of work to do to fill in the existing holes and use his knack for unearthing late 1st/2nd round talent to fill in whatever gaps remain.

These posts are good back and forth I see where everyone is coming from. I can see the positive that it feels like anyone could roll up and give up a bunch of assets for a good player. In this situation it's a very accomplished person making that decision. Connelly doesn't get a free pass though.

Lip You said that Utah was ready to rebuild. I think I would clarify what they wanted to do is more of a retool which might have also been what you meant. They didn't get much in terms of guys that cab help them now or possibly a season from now in this deal. If Bolmaro and Kessler aren't really ready (or with Bolmaro maybe even have an opportunity) the only player helping them win games in 2023-2024 from this deal is Vanderbilt. That's not exciting. That's partly why there are so many draft assets attached to this deal. Like I said before can Utah turn some players and/or assets to help them win now if that's what they want to do? Probably but again that's less certain.

It's weird in a way that Ainge is making these decisions for Utah or is a significant player in them. Imagine going from Dennis Lindsey (apparently still with the Jazz) to Ainge. Also apparently Brad Stephen seems to be a basketball genius. A top level sports executive is worth so much. I'm glad ownership went and got Connelly. Even if this Gobert trade doesn't work out super well I still have faith in Connelly, eye for talent. It's a bit like Sean Marks with the Nets. They went for it and it's a bit messy over there but they will be relatively fine because Marks is a keen talent evaluator. He will be able to build up the roster in one way or another and I'd say that even if they weren't going to get some sort of haul for Durant.

It is lazy because nobody else was going to give up anything close to this amount of assets for Rudy. What other team would have even considered anything close to this deal?

Huge risk spending all these assets for a 30 year old 7'3" guy, hoping he can maintain his health and athleticism. It is huge risk and very short sighted. Lazy is a great word for it.

Hopefully the wolves get lucky and Rudy the giant can avoid age and keep his athleticism at the same level it was in his 20s.

Perfectdraft wrote:It is lazy because nobody else was going to give up anything close to this amount of assets for Rudy.. What other team would have even considered anything close to this deal?

Huge risk spending all these assets for a 30 year old 7'3" guy, hoping he can maintain his health and athleticism. It is huge risk and very short sighted. Lazy is a great word for it.

Hopefully the wolves get lucky and Rudy the giant can avoid age and keep his athleticism at the same level it was in his 20s.

Do we know that for a fact? How are you so certain?

Obviously we offered the best package since they did the deal with us, but how do you know there was no one even close to us?

Believe it or not, I have my own trepidation about the deal. It's eye-watering in terms of the sheer volume of what we gave up and also the combined salaries we'll be paying KAT and Gobert. I'm probably over-rotating a bit in my defense of TC because I vigorously disagree with the notion of TC being incompetent and/or lazy. And in fact, anyone applying that label to him because they don't agree with the deal are they themselves being lazy.

Long time Lurker...back to the ESPN board days, first time poster.

When I first saw the Gobert trade, my jaw dropped. That many picks! But the more I think about this, I'm fully on board. Name a section at the target center after TC already! Ok, getting a bit a head of our selves.

If this trade works out like it could, we could be dynamite for several years, maybe not Golden State big show, but is it now times for the t-pups era? Lets see how the c-suite rounds out the rest of the squad.

Instead of thinking about this from a common trend of other teams standpoint, why not try to break the mold with the talent we have.

Scoring, creating plays on the team from last year:
ANT = 1A
KAT = 1B
DLO = 2

When this worked, it really really worked. Rarely did it work though.

So how do we optimize that team?

Gobert!

Towns can now be Towns, a 7 foot shooting guard who can drop bombs as a 3 level scorer on offense with out expending all of the energy on defense guarding the other teams big. He acts like a shooting guard, not a center, why make him guard centers? Put him on the undersized PF where he be so so at defense.

Dlo is the true SloMo, he truly doesn't have any break-by-you speed, he slow, methodical, and when he is on, he can throw rainbow's down from anywhere on the floor. How do you give him more space to operate? Give him a big center that sets excellent picks/screens, has good hands, and is great at running to the rim, now defenders need to account for this.

Ant: he doesn't need anyone else, he needs to grow, he is our future. But, Gobert around him? Lets start with Goberts reported fire for the game, that will suit Ant real well, he has it too, they both just want to win. When Ant drives and the entire team sells out and clogs the front side of the lane on A1? Backside Alley anyone, Gobert lobs ALLL day?

Defense?

Come on, we have a burgeoning A1, an exciting young wing that could take the next step in Jaden, and one of the best defensive players of his generation. Kat is improving, and we just need to hide Dlo.

Dlo can be Dlo
KAT can be KAT
A1 is comin
Jaden excites me
Gobert can be Gobert

In TC we trust....

P.S.
Rosas, you didn't know how to act, but you sure as hell knew how to acquire talent. Thanks for giving us the ammo that got us to this point.

LETS GO

Oh, and Hi Lip, Abe, Monster, Q, and Cool....shout out to the ESPN OG's

I remember WallyWorld! Welcome back to the posting side of things!

I am on board with your post, although I would amend it to read "KAT can be Dirk"! ;-)

WallyWorld wrote:Long time Lurker...back to the ESPN board days, first time poster.

When I first saw the Gobert trade, my jaw dropped. That many picks! But the more I think about this, I'm fully on board. Name a section at the target center after TC already! Ok, getting a bit a head of our selves.

If this trade works out like it could, we could be dynamite for several years, maybe not Golden State big show, but is it now times for the t-pups era? Lets see how the c-suite rounds out the rest of the squad.

Instead of thinking about this from a common trend of other teams standpoint, why not try to break the mold with the talent we have.

Scoring, creating plays on the team from last year:
ANT = 1A
KAT = 1B
DLO = 2

When this worked, it really really worked. Rarely did it work though.

So how do we optimize that team?

Gobert!

Towns can now be Towns, a 7 foot shooting guard who can drop bombs as a 3 level scorer on offense with out expending all of the energy on defense guarding the other teams big. He acts like a shooting guard, not a center, why make him guard centers? Put him on the undersized PF where he be so so at defense.

Dlo is the true SloMo, he truly doesn't have any break-by-you speed, he slow, methodical, and when he is on, he can throw rainbow's down from anywhere on the floor. How do you give him more space to operate? Give him a big center that sets excellent picks/screens, has good hands, and is great at running to the rim, now defenders need to account for this.

Ant: he doesn't need anyone else, he needs to grow, he is our future. But, Gobert around him? Lets start with Goberts reported fire for the game, that will suit Ant real well, he has it too, they both just want to win. When Ant drives and the entire team sells out and clogs the front side of the lane on A1? Backside Alley anyone, Gobert lobs ALLL day?

Defense?

Come on, we have a burgeoning A1, an exciting young wing that could take the next step in Jaden, and one of the best defensive players of his generation. Kat is improving, and we just need to hide Dlo.

Dlo can be Dlo
KAT can be KAT
A1 is comin
Jaden excites me
Gobert can be Gobert

In TC we trust....

P.S.
Rosas, you didn't know how to act, but you sure as hell knew how to acquire talent. Thanks for giving us the ammo that got us to this point.

LETS GO

Oh, and Hi Lip, Abe, Monster, Q, and Cool....shout out to the ESPN OG's

Wowzers, blast from the past! Great post and we hope to hear more from you Wally!

I think what you outlined above is exactly how the front office thought about it....less about what they'd be giving up but more about what they'd be keeping in the deal (i.e. KAT, Ant, Jaden) and what they were getting back in Gobert.

WallyWorld wrote:Long time Lurker...back to the ESPN board days, first time poster.

When I first saw the Gobert trade, my jaw dropped. That many picks! But the more I think about this, I'm fully on board. Name a section at the target center after TC already! Ok, getting a bit a head of our selves.

If this trade works out like it could, we could be dynamite for several years, maybe not Golden State big show, but is it now times for the t-pups era? Lets see how the c-suite rounds out the rest of the squad.

Instead of thinking about this from a common trend of other teams standpoint, why not try to break the mold with the talent we have.

Scoring, creating plays on the team from last year:
ANT = 1A
KAT = 1B
DLO = 2

When this worked, it really really worked. Rarely did it work though.

So how do we optimize that team?

Gobert!

Towns can now be Towns, a 7 foot shooting guard who can drop bombs as a 3 level scorer on offense with out expending all of the energy on defense guarding the other teams big. He acts like a shooting guard, not a center, why make him guard centers? Put him on the undersized PF where he be so so at defense.

Dlo is the true SloMo, he truly doesn't have any break-by-you speed, he slow, methodical, and when he is on, he can throw rainbow's down from anywhere on the floor. How do you give him more space to operate? Give him a big center that sets excellent picks/screens, has good hands, and is great at running to the rim, now defenders need to account for this.

Ant: he doesn't need anyone else, he needs to grow, he is our future. But, Gobert around him? Lets start with Goberts reported fire for the game, that will suit Ant real well, he has it too, they both just want to win. When Ant drives and the entire team sells out and clogs the front side of the lane on A1? Backside Alley anyone, Gobert lobs ALLL day?

Defense?

Come on, we have a burgeoning A1, an exciting young wing that could take the next step in Jaden, and one of the best defensive players of his generation. Kat is improving, and we just need to hide Dlo.

Dlo can be Dlo
KAT can be KAT
A1 is comin
Jaden excites me
Gobert can be Gobert

In TC we trust....

P.S.
Rosas, you didn't know how to act, but you sure as hell knew how to acquire talent. Thanks for giving us the ammo that got us to this point.

LETS GO

Oh, and Hi Lip, Abe, Monster, Q, and Cool....shout out to the ESPN OG's

Damn good first post. Don't be a stranger