lipoli390 wrote:The Wolves outlook at this point following the loss to Memphis? Obviously, not good!
The Wolves were out-rebounded substantially again last night against Memphis. Here's what Finch had to say about the rebounding:
"We've got to find a way to be more physical and more gritty with our smalls on the glass," Finch said. "A lot of the rebounds guys are getting on us are like these 50-50 rebounds that come out to the mid-range. Those should be ones that our guards are able to get. We're just not getting those."
My initial reaction to Finch's comment is, duh! As I've mentioned before, we lost an average of 13 rebounds per game giving up Vando and Beverley. And I'm not factoring in Beasley's rebounding contribution even though he's a very good rebounder at his position and played significant minutes last season. The rebounds that Vando and Beverley used to get were primarily those "50-50 rebounds that come out to mid-range" Finch was referring to. Gobert's rebounding has been as expected for the most part this season, but his rebounds are in precisely the same area and the same kind as the rebounds KAT used to pull down last season. It's just one of the many reasons why the Gobert deal never made sense to me.
My question to Finch is this: What did you expect would happen when your traded away our two best 50-50-ball rebounders who accounted for 13 rebounds per game? I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I'm beyond pissed at this team - specifically pissed at the front office as well as the head coach and new ownership who went along with the risky and impulsive decision to trade a king's ransom for Rudy Gobert. I get the arguments for it. But there were always profound questions surrounding the impact the deal would have on the team. Would KAT be able to change his position and defend modern PFs? Would Gobert reduce KAT's effectiveness on the offensive end by reducing space KAT used so effectively last season for scoring on dribble penetration? Would the deal really help rebounding when you consider the types of rebounds Gobert gets relative to KAT, Vando and Beverley? How much would the team miss the high energy and toughness provided by both Vando and Beverley - and also Beasley for that matter? Could the team really count on DLO to gel with Gobert into an highly effective PG given how terrible DLO was in the playoffs last season and how inconsistent he's been throughout his time with the Wolves? Could this team really be effective in today's NBA, built on speed and athleticism, when three of the Wolves four starters are slow and in athletic (Gobert, KAT, DLO)?
So here we're are - rooting for a team that's playing like crap and headed towards a lottery finish unless things change substantially in the next 4-6 weeks. Meanwhile, the Wolves' potential trade assets are severely limited. They can't use draft capital for trades because of the Gobert deal. DLO has effectively eliminated any trade value he might have had entering the season except perhaps for his expiring contract. KAT can't be traded until after the season and I think it would be dumb to trade him in any event. The list goes on. Other than Gobert, Ant, McDaniels, Prince and maybe Naz, this franchise has no meaningful trade value they can use this season.
Shortly after he was hired, Tim Connelly said he wanted to stay out of the way and not screw things up. Clearly, he wasn't true to his word. Not long before that, he said there are no shortcuts to success. Yet, he himself in perhaps the biggest way possible within a month or so after he was hired and made a huge deal that gutted the team's future draft assets while also significantly transforming the team's personnel in a way that was bound to significantly impact the team's energy and style of play. It was a deal that the vast majority of basketball minds around the nation considered a bad, lopsided deal for the Wolves.
This team is broken. Can it be repaired and, if so, can it be fixed before the nightmare scenario of a lottery finish at the end of the season? I have my doubts. This is Connelly's problem. He created it and now he has to fix it. Unfortunately, in creating this problem, Connelly also depleted the franchise of critical assets needed to do the fixing.
Obviously, I'm really frustrated. I'm not only a fan, but an investor in this team via my season tickets. I've spent a ton of money over the years on these tickets, including this season. My wife is at her wits end with me on the cost of these tickets and I don't think she'll allow me renew next season. She, like me, was excited about last season's team. We both loved the energy and the vibe as well as the strong finish. Now she refuses to go to any games because it's so depressing. I feel the same way, but I have to go anyway because my tickets aren't selling.
This franchise should have picked up where it left off last season, and if things didn't go well they would have have the resources to maneuver and adjust on the fly. I'm tired of incompetent front offices running this team. Rosas was the closest thing we've ever had to competence in our front office except for the early days of Kevin McHale. This is getting old. Perhaps Connelly is as brilliant as touted. If so, perhaps he can find a way out of the mess he's created. That will be the true test of his worth.
This is exactly how each fan should feel! Screw this glass half full, draft picks would have been late anyways narrative. This team is lacking everything that makes teams win. How can they win with subpar effort? Do they think the refs care if they get on there case, it literally will only lead to less calls. Who's the leader?
I think you said it best.....BROKEN
This team is a bigger joke now than it's ever been. You have new owners that don't even have enough money to buy the team, you hire a new PBO who makes the lazy, big splash, "instant gratification" move, with no regard for the future assets and financial outlook of the organization, you have no leaders, because leadership is obviously not something that is valued in this organization. You have a star player who is all talk and absolutely no character, just a complete snowflake. From top to bottom this team embodies everything that is wrong with our culture and I think that's why it pisses me off so much. You reward a mental midget with a supermax contract and instead of offloading your terrible point guard before the rest of the league realizes just how terrible he is, we go out and make a completely ill advised trade, promoting the best case scenario narrative, that we'll only lose 4 picks in the late 20's lol. Wise people in life hope for the best case scenario but plan for the worst. Others are more diplomatic, but I'll say that anyone who thought Dlo was the answer for this team or thought this Gobert trade was a good idea is not very smart person. It's unfortunate that the ownership and top execs fall into this category along with many of the fans. As far as I'm concerned, everyone in this organization (ownership, execs, players) deserve exactly what they're getting right now and I think it's funny. I don't have any money invested in season tix (never will financially support these woke, snowflakes with a dime of my hard earned money ever again). I feel really bad for any of you that have bought season tix and hope you booo the hell out of these guys and show them your dissatisfaction by not renewing next year.
That's a little harsh don't ya think? Actually wait no that's exactly how I feel, screw all the feelings and relax, it's early crap. This team sucks and you must demand more if you ever want change. How would the Spurs handle this cry baby situation, they would rather suck and do it the right way then deal with the soft approach.
2 discouraging stats that match my eye test and summarize the Timberwolves' early season woes in a nutshell: 1) The Wolves rank dead last in wide-open three-point attempts per game with an astonishing 22.8 per game. 2) The Wolves rank 21st in wide-open 3-point attempts taken with 12.3. NBA players tend to make wide-open shots, so let's assume a 50% make rate on these wide-open 3-pointers. The difference amount to an almost 16 point swing...it's like the Wolves start out every game down 16-0! Knowing that, I almost consider us fortunate to be 5-8 at this stage.
What creates wide-open threes on offense? Is it dribbling around trying to get open? Of course not. It's ball movement...something that is sorely lacking in a starting lineup that includes Ant and DLO as its guards.
And what creates wide-open threes on defense? It's having players on the court who are either unwilling (because of laziness, or because they have never been held accountable on defense) or too dumb to grasp proper rotation on defense and defend wide-open shooters.
DLo is what he is...he will always be a huge contributor to this wide-open 3's gap. But Ant is a work-in-process.
It's up to the coaching staff to solve this huge problem. Finch needs to be more like Pop, and do what he did with 6 minutes left in the Memphis game. Maybe some of you have seen the clip in the first video in Jonny Athletic's article...you know, the one that leads with a photo of what The Pointer does best:
Finchie shows his dissatisfaction with Russell's lazy defense by throwing a fit on the sidelines and immediately subbing in JMac for him. That's Pop-like coaching, and hopefully a harbinger of the future. While this is an example of DLo's laziness in allowing a layup rather than a wide-open three, it's still an example of Finchie holding him accountable...something he just doesn't do enough.
This wide-open 3-point gap is not on DLo, because Finchie should know who he is at this point (excuse the pun) of his career. This is on the coach. He needs to do something different starting tonight.
FNG wrote:2 discouraging stats that match my eye test and summarize the Timberwolves' early season woes in a nutshell: 1) The Wolves rank dead last in wide-open three-point attempts per game with an astonishing 22.8 per game. 2) The Wolves rank 21st in wide-open 3-point attempts taken with 12.3. NBA players tend to make wide-open shots, so let's assume a 50% make rate on these wide-open 3-pointers. The difference amount to an almost 16 point swing...it's like the Wolves start out every game down 16-0! Knowing that, I almost consider us fortunate to be 5-8 at this stage.
What creates wide-open threes on offense? Is it dribbling around trying to get open? Of course not. It's ball movement...something that is sorely lacking in a starting lineup that includes Ant and DLO as its guards.
And what creates wide-open threes on defense? It's having players on the court who are either unwilling (because of laziness, or because they have never been held accountable on defense) or too dumb to grasp proper rotation on defense and defend wide-open shooters.
DLo is what he is...he will always be a huge contributor to this wide-open 3's gap. But Ant is a work-in-process.
It's up to the coaching staff to solve this huge problem. Finch needs to be more like Pop, and do what he did with 6 minutes left in the Memphis game. Maybe some of you have seen the clip in the first video in Jonny Athletic's article...you know, the one that leads with a photo of what The Pointer does best:
Finchie shows his dissatisfaction with Russell's lazy defense by throwing a fit on the sidelines and immediately subbing in JMac for him. That's Pop-like coaching, and hopefully a harbinger of the future. While this is an example of DLo's laziness in allowing a layup rather than a wide-open three, it's still an example of Finchie holding him accountable...something he just doesn't do enough.
This wide-open 3-point gap is not on DLo, because Finchie should know who he is at this point (excuse the pun) of his career. This is on the coach. He needs to do something different starting tonight.
Additionally, I think we are seeing the consequence of playing KAT as a 4 instead of Vando. He just doesn't close out as quickly nor is he used to having that responsibility. But that's not too unexpected. The counter to that was we would be a way better defensive rebounding team with KAT and Gobert together, but even there we are worse!
It's really amazing how that high wall scheme really covered up KAT and DLO's weaknesses as defenders. They just suck in drop coverage.
lipoli390 wrote:The Wolves outlook at this point following the loss to Memphis? Obviously, not good!
The Wolves were out-rebounded substantially again last night against Memphis. Here's what Finch had to say about the rebounding:
"We've got to find a way to be more physical and more gritty with our smalls on the glass," Finch said. "A lot of the rebounds guys are getting on us are like these 50-50 rebounds that come out to the mid-range. Those should be ones that our guards are able to get. We're just not getting those."
My initial reaction to Finch's comment is, duh! As I've mentioned before, we lost an average of 13 rebounds per game giving up Vando and Beverley. And I'm not factoring in Beasley's rebounding contribution even though he's a very good rebounder at his position and played significant minutes last season. The rebounds that Vando and Beverley used to get were primarily those "50-50 rebounds that come out to mid-range" Finch was referring to. Gobert's rebounding has been as expected for the most part this season, but his rebounds are in precisely the same area and the same kind as the rebounds KAT used to pull down last season. It's just one of the many reasons why the Gobert deal never made sense to me.
My question to Finch is this: What did you expect would happen when your traded away our two best 50-50-ball rebounders who accounted for 13 rebounds per game? I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I'm beyond pissed at this team - specifically pissed at the front office as well as the head coach and new ownership who went along with the risky and impulsive decision to trade a king's ransom for Rudy Gobert. I get the arguments for it. But there were always profound questions surrounding the impact the deal would have on the team. Would KAT be able to change his position and defend modern PFs? Would Gobert reduce KAT's effectiveness on the offensive end by reducing space KAT used so effectively last season for scoring on dribble penetration? Would the deal really help rebounding when you consider the types of rebounds Gobert gets relative to KAT, Vando and Beverley? How much would the team miss the high energy and toughness provided by both Vando and Beverley - and also Beasley for that matter? Could the team really count on DLO to gel with Gobert into an highly effective PG given how terrible DLO was in the playoffs last season and how inconsistent he's been throughout his time with the Wolves? Could this team really be effective in today's NBA, built on speed and athleticism, when three of the Wolves four starters are slow and in athletic (Gobert, KAT, DLO)?
So here we're are - rooting for a team that's playing like crap and headed towards a lottery finish unless things change substantially in the next 4-6 weeks. Meanwhile, the Wolves' potential trade assets are severely limited. They can't use draft capital for trades because of the Gobert deal. DLO has effectively eliminated any trade value he might have had entering the season except perhaps for his expiring contract. KAT can't be traded until after the season and I think it would be dumb to trade him in any event. The list goes on. Other than Gobert, Ant, McDaniels, Prince and maybe Naz, this franchise has no meaningful trade value they can use this season.
Shortly after he was hired, Tim Connelly said he wanted to stay out of the way and not screw things up. Clearly, he wasn't true to his word. Not long before that, he said there are no shortcuts to success. Yet, he himself in perhaps the biggest way possible within a month or so after he was hired and made a huge deal that gutted the team's future draft assets while also significantly transforming the team's personnel in a way that was bound to significantly impact the team's energy and style of play. It was a deal that the vast majority of basketball minds around the nation considered a bad, lopsided deal for the Wolves.
This team is broken. Can it be repaired and, if so, can it be fixed before the nightmare scenario of a lottery finish at the end of the season? I have my doubts. This is Connelly's problem. He created it and now he has to fix it. Unfortunately, in creating this problem, Connelly also depleted the franchise of critical assets needed to do the fixing.
Obviously, I'm really frustrated. I'm not only a fan, but an investor in this team via my season tickets. I've spent a ton of money over the years on these tickets, including this season. My wife is at her wits end with me on the cost of these tickets and I don't think she'll allow me renew next season. She, like me, was excited about last season's team. We both loved the energy and the vibe as well as the strong finish. Now she refuses to go to any games because it's so depressing. I feel the same way, but I have to go anyway because my tickets aren't selling.
This franchise should have picked up where it left off last season, and if things didn't go well they would have have the resources to maneuver and adjust on the fly. I'm tired of incompetent front offices running this team. Rosas was the closest thing we've ever had to competence in our front office except for the early days of Kevin McHale. This is getting old. Perhaps Connelly is as brilliant as touted. If so, perhaps he can find a way out of the mess he's created. That will be the true test of his worth.
This is exactly how each fan should feel! Screw this glass half full, draft picks would have been late anyways narrative. This team is lacking everything that makes teams win. How can they win with subpar effort? Do they think the refs care if they get on there case, it literally will only lead to less calls. Who's the leader?
I think you said it best.....BROKEN
This team is a bigger joke now than it's ever been. You have new owners that don't even have enough money to buy the team, you hire a new PBO who makes the lazy, big splash, "instant gratification" move, with no regard for the future assets and financial outlook of the organization, you have no leaders, because leadership is obviously not something that is valued in this organization. You have a star player who is all talk and absolutely no character, just a complete snowflake. From top to bottom this team embodies everything that is wrong with our culture and I think that's why it pisses me off so much. You reward a mental midget with a supermax contract and instead of offloading your terrible point guard before the rest of the league realizes just how terrible he is, we go out and make a completely ill advised trade, promoting the best case scenario narrative, that we'll only lose 4 picks in the late 20's lol. Wise people in life hope for the best case scenario but plan for the worst. Others are more diplomatic, but I'll say that anyone who thought Dlo was the answer for this team or thought this Gobert trade was a good idea is not very smart person. It's unfortunate that the ownership and top execs fall into this category along with many of the fans. As far as I'm concerned, everyone in this organization (ownership, execs, players) deserve exactly what they're getting right now and I think it's funny. I don't have any money invested in season tix (never will financially support these woke, snowflakes with a dime of my hard earned money ever again). I feel really bad for any of you that have bought season tix and hope you booo the hell out of these guys and show them your dissatisfaction by not renewing next year.
C'mon. This is a team that has won 20 or fewer games 7 times in 33 years. Take a breath.
Fans have forgot about 30 years of ineptitude and have lost faith in this team 12 games in. I'd understand if we were talking about the Vikings. But 3 games under .500 so early in the season used to be cause for celebration!
PorkChop wrote:Fans have forgot about 30 years of ineptitude and have lost faith in this team 12 games in. I'd understand if we were talking about the Vikings. But 3 games under .500 so early in the season used to be cause for celebration!
Two games under .500 with 10 teams ahead of the Wolves in the standings never should have been cause for celebration. It can't possibly be anything but disappointing after trading away four of their next seven first-round picks along with this year's top pick and several key rotation players in the Wolves success last season. And the Wolves haven't just lost 8 of their first 14 games, they've generally looked bad doing it.
PorkChop wrote:Fans have forgot about 30 years of ineptitude and have lost faith in this team 12 games in. I'd understand if we were talking about the Vikings. But 3 games under .500 so early in the season used to be cause for celebration!
Two games under .500 with 10 teams ahead of the Wolves in the standings never should have been cause for celebration. It can't possibly be anything but disappointing after trading away four of their next seven first-round picks along with this year's top pick and several key rotation players in the Wolves success last season. And the Wolves haven't just lost 8 of their first 14 games, they've generally looked bad doing it.
Also the wins haven't been against good teams, and have came when teams were short handed. Very unimpressive year to say the least.
