Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

Camden wrote:Derrick White continues to be a player I have interest in for this Wolves team. Frankly, he's one of the best defensive guards in the league and he offers adequate scoring and facilitating on the offensive end -- albeit with an inconsistent perimeter shot. Minnesota needs to acquire more two-way players, yes, but especially ones that can contribute consistently in some capacity. White's defense translates every night and he's proven to be effective as a starter or as a reserve. Sprinkle in the fact that he's a combo guard capable of taking over lead guard duties in the case of running a second unit or spot-starting when a starter gets injured. There's a lot to like with White.

I'm curious about what San Antonio would trade him for, especially considering he's signed through the 2024 season. I would offer Malik Beasley, Leandro Bolmaro, and a first-round pick for White straight up. I'm sure some here would scoff at giving those assets up for White, but I think he fits everything Minnesota wants to do while being secured for the next three years below market value.

SAS likely takes that in a heartbeat. We still would need wing/big size though. But this trade does open up a roster spot.

Minnesota would free up roughly $1.7-million with my presented trade, which would allow them to sign a free agent big for the remainder of the season without surpassing the luxury tax threshold.

Camden wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden wrote:Derrick White continues to be a player I have interest in for this Wolves team. Frankly, he's one of the best defensive guards in the league and he offers adequate scoring and facilitating on the offensive end -- albeit with an inconsistent perimeter shot. Minnesota needs to acquire more two-way players, yes, but especially ones that can contribute consistently in some capacity. White's defense translates every night and he's proven to be effective as a starter or as a reserve. Sprinkle in the fact that he's a combo guard capable of taking over lead guard duties in the case of running a second unit or spot-starting when a starter gets injured. There's a lot to like with White.

I'm curious about what San Antonio would trade him for, especially considering he's signed through the 2024 season. I would offer Malik Beasley, Leandro Bolmaro, and a first-round pick for White straight up. I'm sure some here would scoff at giving those assets up for White, but I think he fits everything Minnesota wants to do while being secured for the next three years below market value.

SAS likely takes that in a heartbeat. We still would need wing/big size though. But this trade does open up a roster spot.

Minnesota would free up roughly $1.7-million with my presented trade, which would allow them to sign a free agent big for the remainder of the season without surpassing the luxury tax threshold.

Who's out there waiting for a contract that you would target? Big men have been phased out in recent years, so there has to be quite a few who would sign up for a million to suit up for matchups.

TheFuture wrote:

Camden wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden wrote:Derrick White continues to be a player I have interest in for this Wolves team. Frankly, he's one of the best defensive guards in the league and he offers adequate scoring and facilitating on the offensive end -- albeit with an inconsistent perimeter shot. Minnesota needs to acquire more two-way players, yes, but especially ones that can contribute consistently in some capacity. White's defense translates every night and he's proven to be effective as a starter or as a reserve. Sprinkle in the fact that he's a combo guard capable of taking over lead guard duties in the case of running a second unit or spot-starting when a starter gets injured. There's a lot to like with White.

I'm curious about what San Antonio would trade him for, especially considering he's signed through the 2024 season. I would offer Malik Beasley, Leandro Bolmaro, and a first-round pick for White straight up. I'm sure some here would scoff at giving those assets up for White, but I think he fits everything Minnesota wants to do while being secured for the next three years below market value.

SAS likely takes that in a heartbeat. We still would need wing/big size though. But this trade does open up a roster spot.

Minnesota would free up roughly $1.7-million with my presented trade, which would allow them to sign a free agent big for the remainder of the season without surpassing the luxury tax threshold.

Who's out there waiting for a contract that you would target? Big men have been phased out in recent years, so there has to be quite a few who would sign up for a million to suit up for matchups.

Greg Monroe would be a welcomed addition. There was good synergy with him and the rest of Minnesota's reserves. He also wouldn't need to play every night. To me, that would be the logical signing if circumstances allowed it.

Camden wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden wrote:Derrick White continues to be a player I have interest in for this Wolves team. Frankly, he's one of the best defensive guards in the league and he offers adequate scoring and facilitating on the offensive end -- albeit with an inconsistent perimeter shot. Minnesota needs to acquire more two-way players, yes, but especially ones that can contribute consistently in some capacity. White's defense translates every night and he's proven to be effective as a starter or as a reserve. Sprinkle in the fact that he's a combo guard capable of taking over lead guard duties in the case of running a second unit or spot-starting when a starter gets injured. There's a lot to like with White.

I'm curious about what San Antonio would trade him for, especially considering he's signed through the 2024 season. I would offer Malik Beasley, Leandro Bolmaro, and a first-round pick for White straight up. I'm sure some here would scoff at giving those assets up for White, but I think he fits everything Minnesota wants to do while being secured for the next three years below market value.

SAS likely takes that in a heartbeat. We still would need wing/big size though. But this trade does open up a roster spot.

Minnesota would free up roughly $1.7-million with my presented trade, which would allow them to sign a free agent big for the remainder of the season without surpassing the luxury tax threshold.

Who's out there waiting for a contract that you would target? Big men have been phased out in recent years, so there has to be quite a few who would sign up for a million to suit up for matchups.

Greg Monroe would be a welcomed addition. There was good synergy with him and the rest of Minnesota's reserves. He also wouldn't need to play every night. To me, that would be the logical signing if circumstances allowed it.

I think that's too much to give up for a guy with a track record of having a hard time staying healthy and he gets paid a healthy amount still i thought based on your post he was getting paid a few million less. Having said that let's say White is sort of a lesser version of Jrue Holiday...ok then you are probably right that's a pretty good pickup although it is a pretty high price.

monsterpile wrote:I think that's too much to give up for a guy with a track record of having a hard time staying healthy and he gets paid a healthy amount still i thought based on your post he was getting paid a few million less. Having said that let's say White is sort of a lesser version of Jrue Holiday...ok then you are probably right that's a pretty good pickup although it is a pretty high price.

I suppose that's a fair take, monster. A lot of what Derrick White contributes on a nightly basis just doesn't show up in the typical box score, although he does grade well in several defensive measures. He's just a winning basketball player, in my opinion, and a huge upgrade from Malik Beasley despite the downgrade in perimeter shooting.

For fun, these are the next 10 highest paid players in the NBA this season after White and their VORP for comparison. Most of them have similar multi-year deals as well. I'd say White's actually outperforming them and his salary.

Aaron Gordon: $16,409,091 -- 0.7
OG Anunoby: $16,071,429 -- 0.9
D?vis Bert?ns: $16,000,000 -- -0.2
Gary Trent Jr.: $16,000,000 -- 0.8
Lauri Markkanen: $15,690,909 -- 0.8
Marcus Morris: $15,627,907 -- 0.1
Duncan Robinson: $15,560,000 -- 0.5
Norman Powell: $15,517,242 -- 0.3
Dejounte Murray: $15,428,571 -- 2.7 (what a steal)
Will Barton: $15,384,615 -- 0.9
Derrick White: $15,178,571 -- 1.2

D'Angelo Russell: $30,013,500 -- 1.2
Malik Beasley: $14,391,964 -- -0.1
Patrick Beverley: $14,320,988 -- 1.1
Anthony Edwards: $10,245,480 -- 1.7

VORP is used here because it gives you a snapshot of how well or poor a player is performing. You could also multiply a player's VORP by 2.70 to get their wins above replacement player. Either way, it appears that White is playing above his pay and he'd be a massive upgrade over Beasley. He'd be worth the price, in my opinion.

Something to consider when we look at options for the Wolves adding a player down the stretch. According to Hoops Hype, Prince has 2 different incentives in his contract.

"Taurean Prince's contract includes a $334,375 bonus if his team posts a defensive rating below 105 with him on the floor, according to John Hollinger. He gets another $334,375 if he attempts 7.6-plus three-pointers per 36 minutes and shoots better than 41.5 percent in those."

I don't think either of these are super likely although if the last one happened that would be really awesome. At some point the Wolves might be able to assume these won't come through but they probably have to operate with the idea that one or both could get paid out and leave them with just a few thousand bucks under the tax. This assumes that the 10 day contracts they signed don't count against the cap because of the Covid exceptions. If it wasn't for thePrince incentives they are probably a few games from being able to sign a guy to a vet min deal for the rest of the season and still stay under the Lux tax...again assuming those 10 day contracts don't count.

Considering Prince's incentives may need to be considered with some trades also.

If this team seems to starts really clicking at what point does the basketball side and ownership side say...we stick with the roster as is or maybe risk going over the Lux tax this year to make an improvement?

Camden wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I think that's too much to give up for a guy with a track record of having a hard time staying healthy and he gets paid a healthy amount still i thought based on your post he was getting paid a few million less. Having said that let's say White is sort of a lesser version of Jrue Holiday...ok then you are probably right that's a pretty good pickup although it is a pretty high price.

I suppose that's a fair take, monster. A lot of what Derrick White contributes on a nightly basis just doesn't show up in the typical box score, although he does grade well in several defensive measures. He's just a winning basketball player, in my opinion, and a huge upgrade from Malik Beasley despite the downgrade in perimeter shooting.

For fun, these are the next 10 highest paid players in the NBA this season after White and their VORP for comparison. Most of them have similar multi-year deals as well. I'd say White's actually outperforming them and his salary.

Aaron Gordon: $16,409,091 -- 0.7
OG Anunoby: $16,071,429 -- 0.9
D?vis Bert?ns: $16,000,000 -- -0.2
Gary Trent Jr.: $16,000,000 -- 0.8
Lauri Markkanen: $15,690,909 -- 0.8
Marcus Morris: $15,627,907 -- 0.1
Duncan Robinson: $15,560,000 -- 0.5
Norman Powell: $15,517,242 -- 0.3
Dejounte Murray: $15,428,571 -- 2.7 (what a steal)
Will Barton: $15,384,615 -- 0.9
Derrick White: $15,178,571 -- 1.2

D'Angelo Russell: $30,013,500 -- 1.2
Malik Beasley: $14,391,964 -- -0.1
Patrick Beverley: $14,320,988 -- 1.1
Anthony Edwards: $10,245,480 -- 1.7

VORP is used here because it gives you a snapshot of how well or poor a player is performing. You could also multiply a player's VORP by 2.70 to get their wins above replacement player. Either way, it appears that White is playing above his pay and he'd be a massive upgrade over Beasley. He'd be worth the price, in my opinion.

Well if that's true then Beasley having a WAR basically being a zero is very surprising to me and makes me rethink trading him a bit. You know I'm baseball Cam to WAR is be all just like +- stay in basketball ;) but all jokes aside he's played the worst he could possible play this year but still isn't that much of negative player.

Jake Fischer:

Before Patrick Beverley reaches free agency, Minnesota is exploring trade avenues involving its veteran point guard in addition to the Timberwolves' conversations regarding Malik Beasley. Marcus Smart has been mentioned as a recent target for Minnesota who would fill Beverley's integral role in the Wolves' starting lineup.

I definitely don't like the sound of that. I strongly lean towards not trading Patrick Beverley, but if Minnesota does it needs to be for a much better player than Marcus Smart. I have zero interest in having Smart and his $77-million extension on the payroll. Just not a wise move, in my opinion.

Camden wrote:

Jake Fischer:

Before Patrick Beverley reaches free agency, Minnesota is exploring trade avenues involving its veteran point guard in addition to the Timberwolves' conversations regarding Malik Beasley. Marcus Smart has been mentioned as a recent target for Minnesota who would fill Beverley's integral role in the Wolves' starting lineup.

I definitely don't like the sound of that. I strongly lean towards not trading Patrick Beverley, but if Minnesota does it needs to be for a much better player than Marcus Smart. I have zero interest in having Smart and his $77-million extension on the payroll. Just not a wise move, in my opinion.

I know you talked about it yesterday but I don't see Gupta having the power to make this type of move

jester1534 wrote:

Camden wrote:

Jake Fischer:

Before Patrick Beverley reaches free agency, Minnesota is exploring trade avenues involving its veteran point guard in addition to the Timberwolves' conversations regarding Malik Beasley. Marcus Smart has been mentioned as a recent target for Minnesota who would fill Beverley's integral role in the Wolves' starting lineup.

I definitely don't like the sound of that. I strongly lean towards not trading Patrick Beverley, but if Minnesota does it needs to be for a much better player than Marcus Smart. I have zero interest in having Smart and his $77-million extension on the payroll. Just not a wise move, in my opinion.

I know you talked about it yesterday but I don't see Gupta having the power to make this type of move

How do Smart and Derrick White compare to each other?