Minnesota Sports Forum

10 mil for a 6th man....I am so glad Milt/Flip didn't make this decision. It is not like we are OKC going for a championship. That money can be better spent. I love this speculation too about the market for Thad, insane. If there was a better situation they would have taken it.

Camden wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:Just watched the press conference. Man, I hope our two big guys in the FO (Flip and Milt) aren't as dumb as they come across. Milt talked about how Thad's camp made it known that he was going to opt out and Milt talked about how you don't want an asset to leave without getting something for it beforehand. They're talking about Thad like he's an expiring... Well, guys, KG's an expiring too. Their explanation is tomfoolery.

I wish Flip would just say, "I never stopped loving Kevin Garnett and I wanted him here no matter what. I tried to get him from Brooklyn as part of the Minnesota/Cleveland/Kevin Love trade, but they weren't having it so I had to go to my second plan to get Thad Young. I can't get enough KG! He's like the son I always wanted. Ryan, go get me some coffee."

I agree that Milt's comments make no sense at face value, cam. But I'm pretty sure I know what he was doing here ( I think Milt is quite savvy by the way). What most of us know is what the Wolves really feared after watching Thad for 3/4 of a year is that he would opt IN, and suck up $10 million of cap space next year, not opt out. But Thad is a great guy and probably well-liked by the Wolves brass, so they're not going to say that. It would be like saying "Look, Thad can't rebound or play team defense, and he doesn't even score very efficiently. We can't afford to pay $10 million for those results". That would have been hurtful to a guy they sincerely like, and also would have made Flip look stupid for giving up a first rounder a year ago. So instead they took the high road, and painted this as a scenario where they had to get something for a guy that was going to test the market.

Many will argue that Milt was saying what he meant. I really doubt it. Anybody with any business sense knows that Thad's agent was going to tell him to take the $10 million, and try to earn a new contract next year, and Milt and Flip know this.

And if Thad was going to opt-in, then what's the problem in keeping him for next year and trading him next year when teams wouldn't have to worry about the option in the contract?

Here were the scenarios:

Thad opts out:

- Flip tries to bring back on a multi-year deal for less money per year. We sign KG anyways because... nostalgia.

- If the above was unsuccessful, then Thad leaves as an expiring and we sign KG because... nostalgia.

Thad opts in:

- Flip now has a 27-year old scoring forward that can play either forward position, and has the versatility to start or come off the bench. Not only that, but he'll be playing for his next contract. Often times, those players play even hungrier because they know there are dollars on the line. Should he still not fit with the team's movement going forward, he gets dealt at the deadline for a 1st or young prospect. A playoff team would come calling and they wouldn't have to worry about their cap situation since he'd be an expiring.

Why are you acting like that $10M will be better spent? That's another issue I have with people that wanted Thad gone. Who are we realistically going to sign that's a better player than Thad Young? I'll wait for your ideas, if there are any.

Cam, I hear your argument, and it has some merit. But the basic difference in our views on this deal is that we value Thad Young quite differently. When I resigned myself to the belief that we were going to have Thad for another year because he was going to opt in, I convinced myself that maybe it wasn't so bad, and that he could provide some scoring punch off the bench. $10 million is a lot of dough for a guy who is going to provide scoring off the bench, and not very efficiently at that, but Thad is an easy guy to cheer for...so I stayed on the bandwagon. You've probably noticed that I haven't been very critical of
Thad the past month...much of that was trying to convince myself that he was a decent contributor because he's a T-wolf and I like the guy.

But the acquisition of Payne and the KG rumor early yesterday brought back my objectivity. I'm convinced we are going to get much more out of the PF position for less money with the Payne/KG combo (I don't include AB here because he is in the equation in either scenario), and that the ripple effect on the rest of the team is also an important positive intangible. I'm a rebounding/defense/teamwork guy, and I think you're more of an offensive guy, so we're likely never going to agree on this trade. But it's an interesting discussion anyway.

I am frankly surprised at how Flip has just been destroyed on this board with none of his moves having played a game for us yet. On paper I just don't see how we are worse than we already were before the deadline. I guess time will tell if people were right for destroying him immediately when the moves were made or get a lesson in patience.

TheGrey08 wrote:

Camden wrote:LST, you also never thought Kevin Love could bring back Andrew Wiggins from Cleveland and you were wrong about that. Perhaps your trade value meter is broken.

Yeah and a lot of us thought Love could bring back Wiggins. So what.

I think what Cam is saying here grey, is that I wasn't a very good prognosticator about what Love would bring back in a trade, so that my value meter might need recalibration. He's correct about my original Love call, but I argue that LeBron inserting himself into the Love/Wiggins discussion changed the entire equation.

khans2k5 wrote:I am frankly surprised at how Flip has just been destroyed on this board with none of his moves having played a game for us yet. On paper I just don't see how we are worse than we already were before the deadline. I guess time will tell if people were right for destroying him immediately when the moves were made or get a lesson in patience.

Flip is taking a beating here. In all fairness, khans, even though I am a supporter of most of Flip's recent moves, he's still on probation with me because of how some of his other moves have panned out. I'm not going to criticize him for free agency moves where the player has moved on (Brewer, Mo, etc), but he is certainly culpable for some other GM moves, most notably:

1) Overpaying for oft-injured Pek and Bud
2) Giving up a first rounder for Young, a PF that didn't in any way meet my criteria for a starting NBA PF.

Others have questioned other moves by Flip that I liked, such as the Kevin Martin signing. So Flip, like all other NBA GMs, is under a microscope here. If Payne proves to be a flop and KG provides little value in the time he is here, I will admit I was wrong and rip Flip for his recent moves. But right now, I think he played his hand this month brilliantly.

Let's talk about the money angle. Many on this thread are stating that "the money can be better spent elsewhere". The FACT is, that with or without his $10M on the books, there is ZERO money to spend. When you add in $3-5M for Garnett, a top 3 pick and Rubio's extension, we are well over $60M, and over the cap. That means we will have a couple smaller exceptions to use. This means that we are entering next season with no upgrade, other than our top 3 pick.

Brings me to another issue. This team, as is, is just not going to compete, IMO. Say we get Towns. So next year our starting team is Pek - Towns - Shabazz - Wiggins - Rubio. Does this seem like a team that can compete with the likes of GS, Dallas, Clips, etc? I just don't see it. Now, I realize that Rome wasn't built in a day, but I just don't see enough dynamic players on this team to expect a jump (ala what OKC had several years back).

Another thing about all this trade value talk. We've won 11 games this year. Veterans on 11 win teams really have very little value because quite frankly how can they be all that valuable when the have only been able to lead a team to 11 wins. When you aren't even competitive for most of the year, why would a guy like Martin hold equal value to a guy like AA when Aflalo's team has won almost twice as many games as us? Our vets don't look like they contribute much to the winning effort right now which is what contenders want. Losing makes everyone look bad and when you add tricky contracts to that fact it makes it hard to get good value for players.

thedoper wrote:10 mil for a 6th man....I am so glad Milt/Flip didn't make this decision. It is not like we are OKC going for a championship. That money can be better spent. I love this speculation too about the market for Thad, insane. If there was a better situation they would have taken it.

Well it sounds like Flip has had a hard on getting KG back since the Love deal, so we can't say for sure if there were better deals, or Flip just wanted KG

The new ripple of news is that Thad and his camp asked for a trade. Okay, so we still only got KG for him. Yuck.

alexftbl8181 wrote:

thedoper wrote:10 mil for a 6th man....I am so glad Milt/Flip didn't make this decision. It is not like we are OKC going for a championship. That money can be better spent. I love this speculation too about the market for Thad, insane. If there was a better situation they would have taken it.

Well it sounds like Flip has had a hard on getting KG back since the Love deal, so we can't say for sure if there were better deals, or Flip just wanted KG

So assume there were better deals based on no evidence? Paranoia.