sjm34 wrote:
Young is the anti-christ when it comes to team defense, and even worse guarding his own man.
Then Thad has to be just luckiest player in whole NBA because already several years his stats have told totally opposite story about his defense.
His team has had better defensive rating with Thad in court than with him off the court every year except 13-14 and 11-12 (that year Philly had one of the best defenses in whole NBA), This is telling for me that he has to play good team defense.
After Thad started playing majority of his minutes as power forward, he has also kept his man below 20 points per 48 minutes every year except last year. Only power forwards during that time span with clearly better results have been either playing next to elite rim protector (Randolph, West and Boozer) or are great defenders (Garnett and Ibaka). To get those stats in defending his man year after year, he has to be at least average individual defender.
For that trade we have to make it a necessity that Brooklyn takes on Budinger as well. I'd also expect seeing perry Jones or lamb and Mirza teletovic or another big from Brooklyn coming to us. Not interested in a pick. Too many young players already. We'll be set on young talent with our top 5 pick being added to the current lot.
sjm34 wrote:
Young is the anti-christ when it comes to team defense, and even worse guarding his own man.
Then Thad has to be just luckiest player in whole NBA because already several years his stats have told totally opposite story about his defense.
His team has had better defensive rating with Thad in court than with him off the court every year except 13-14 and 11-12 (that year Philly had one of the best defenses in whole NBA), This is telling for me that he has to play good team defense.
After Thad started playing majority of his minutes as power forward, he has also kept his man below 20 points per 48 minutes every year except last year. Only power forwards during that time span with clearly better results have been either playing next to elite rim protector (Randolph, West and Boozer) or are great defenders (Garnett and Ibaka). To get those stats in defending his man year after year, he has to be at least average individual defender.
I don't know, so many circumstances were different in Philly: 1) Often played next to Brand and Iggy - not a bad defensive pairing and Iggy could board too, 2) Most seasons he came off the bench, 3) Usually had multiple ball handlers on the floor with him, and 4) Played in the East. None of these conditions exist this season, but we did catch a glimpse of the old Thad tonight. He even kept Faried mostly under control.
I like Thad, but never thought he was starter-level material in the Western Conference unless playing next to a monster like DeAndre Jordan or Dwight Howard, with other high-level offensive weapons too.
sjm34 wrote:
Young is the anti-christ when it comes to team defense, and even worse guarding his own man.
Then Thad has to be just luckiest player in whole NBA because already several years his stats have told totally opposite story about his defense.
His team has had better defensive rating with Thad in court than with him off the court every year except 13-14 and 11-12 (that year Philly had one of the best defenses in whole NBA), This is telling for me that he has to play good team defense.
After Thad started playing majority of his minutes as power forward, he has also kept his man below 20 points per 48 minutes every year except last year. Only power forwards during that time span with clearly better results have been either playing next to elite rim protector (Randolph, West and Boozer) or are great defenders (Garnett and Ibaka). To get those stats in defending his man year after year, he has to be at least average individual defender.
How anybody could watch the Wolves play this year every game, and argue that Thad has been one of our least bad defensive players is not a sane person. I don't care what stats you want to reference, he has been absolutely awful on defense this year. Anybody who has ever played or coached this game at a high school level or above can easily see that. Give me a break.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:So let me get this straight. You are making a case for Thad being well above average this year? Like they say, stats can lie.
Offensively he has been pretty bad but it is mainly because he has been asked to do things that are not his strengths. Similar like playing Rubio mainly off the ball in offense (they did this in Spain and Rubio looked horrible) or asking Pek to create from high post.
Defensively he has been OK or probably I should say one of the least bad defenders in Wolves team. I can understand that some single stat can lie but I cannot believe that all of those would be lying.
- Based on basketball reference Wolves defensive rating with Young on the court has been 110.3 and with him off the court, it has been 115.3. Only Jeff Adrien and Rubio have had bigger positive impact on Wolves defense.
- Based on NBA.com during Thad's five game absence Wolves defensive rating was absurdly bad 127.5 pts per 100 possessions.
- Based on 82games.com, Thad has allowed his opponent counterpart to score least points per 48 minutes among all Wolves players. Either power forward is currently the worst position in West or Young has done better job to prevent his man scoring that other Wolves.
- Based on nba.com, Dieng and Bennett have allowed higher opponent FG% at rim than Young has allowed. All of them have been bad though. Young has that 55.8, Dieng 56.1 and Bennett 59.4. Only Jeff Adrien has had this figure better than Thad among Wolves bigs this season with 48.1.
Thad's five game absence not only left a shorthanded team down another man, but at the worst possible time scheduling and travel wise. That happened during the mexico road trip.
Thad's steals and points given up are connected. When you gamble for steals giving up position thus forcing your C to cover your man, it is very misleading to give any value to those stats. Anyone watching Young on the court for more than 3 minutes has witnessed this. It doesn't happen a couple times a game, but more like ten to fifteen. Young should actually be trading checks with Gorgui for playing D for him. Young never helps on the PnR, only waving a hand at the player as he tracks next to his man assuring that he doesn't receive a pass. Unfortunately the ball handler has usually taken his clear path to the basket. Young is the anti-christ when it comes to team defense, and even worse guarding his own man.
Yep stats can definitely be misleading and I was thinking about that as well. I just don't trust those defensive metric stats. You can almost never go off stats alone. It comes down to the eye test in combination with stats.
Young for guaranteed cap space next year is a steal. We sign David West a draft a big and we are set for years. Young is horrible for this team and needs to be where the 3 and 5 compliment his weaknesses.
thedoper wrote:Young for guaranteed cap space next year is a steal. We sign David West a draft a big and we are set for years. Young is horrible for this team and needs to be where the 3 and 5 compliment his weaknesses.
- Getting rid of Young doesn't give us cap space. Rubio's extension kicks in next year.
- West isn't signing here. Aging vet who wants some jewelry, and he won't get it here.
- How about seeing Young play with other starters before writing him off? My goodness.
- Wolves won't sign a free agent next summer that's better than Young. Think we need to realize this.
I cringe every time I see Thad get the ball...it is a whole lot of....NO NO NO NO! with not enough....NO NO NO NO, ok that works!
I do not see Thad as a fit with the young Pups moving forward. I would much rather see Bennett and any other possible future part of the puzzle playing. Even if we have a better chance of winning with Thad on the court, it doesn't help our draft position. Not to mention the play calls involving that dumb high P N R with Williams and Thad are not helping the Pups learn the game. Mostly it stagnates player movement as the "VETS" play 2 man game in the middle of the court and the kids watch.
Is there a PF on a team that is stuck behind a vet that could be had at the trade deadline? I see Thad as a Corey Brewer kind of guy, he has been around a while, gambles on defense, cannot hit a 3 (as a Wolves player) and is truly not part of the future plan.
thedoper wrote:Young for guaranteed cap space next year is a steal. We sign David West a draft a big and we are set for years. Young is horrible for this team and needs to be where the 3 and 5 compliment his weaknesses.
- Getting rid of Young doesn't give us cap space. Rubio's extension kicks in next year.
- West isn't signing here. Aging vet who wants some jewelry, and he won't get it here.
- How about seeing Young play with other starters before writing him off? My goodness.
- Wolves won't sign a free agent next summer that's better than Young. Think we need to realize this.
So Young will suck less playing with Rubio and therefore we should be happy overpaying him? We can do better.
