Boy did we mess up passing on Jamal Murray

[Wolvesfan21]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?

DLO and Murray?

[bleedspeed]

- Bleed loved sabonis, nice get.

I forgot he was in that draft. I just remember thinking he was a player that helped teams win.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?

DLO and Murray?

Yep. So as much as people want Murray now we got ourselves a very similar player to him who's just 1 year older. Somehow Murray is on a contender and we have no shot to contend with Russell though. Not sure how the math works on that one.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?

DLO and Murray?

Yep. So as much as people want Murray now we got ourselves a very similar player to him who's just 1 year older. Somehow Murray is on a contender and we have no shot to contend with Russell though. Not sure how the math works on that one.

Simple. Here is Playoff Murray, the version we're all talking about:

27/6/5/1 62.5% TS

When DLO starts putting up numbers like that, we can all rightfully get excited. Murray is a different player from what he was a season ago.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?

DLO and Murray?

Yep. So as much as people want Murray now we got ourselves a very similar player to him who's just 1 year older. Somehow Murray is on a contender and we have no shot to contend with Russell though. Not sure how the math works on that one.

Simple. Here is Playoff Murray, the version we're all talking about:

27/6/5/1 62.5% TS

When DLO starts putting up numbers like that, we can all rightfully get excited. Murray is a different player from what he was a season ago.

He put up almost the exact same regular season this year as last year. He's been a different player in just these playoffs so the jury is still out if this is who he is for an 82 game season or if this is a hot stretch in one playoffs. This is the bubble so I am more inclined to treat what happens here as more of an outlier than who these guys are in a normal series playing actual road games against good teams. This could be his breakout or he could just as easily be a bubble star. His regular season does not signal however that he is a different player from a year ago.

18/5/4/1 56% TS this year

The Phoenix Suns went undefeated in the bubble. TJ Warren was the best scorer in the league in the bubble. Are you expecting those high level performances to continue into next year as well? Or was it more just an outlier due to environment?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'm sure this won't be agreed with, but I think Towns is better than Jokic and Russell is better than Murray, but everything else sides with the Nuggets over the Wolves. From the rest of the roster to the head coach and up through the front office. Minnesota could follow Denver's blueprint and theoretically become a contender in the same mold if they wanted to, or they could venture off and create their own style/advantage.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'm sure this won't be agreed with, but I think Towns is better than Jokic and Russell is better than Murray, but everything else sides with the Nuggets over the Wolves. From the rest of the roster to the head coach and up through the front office. Minnesota could follow Denver's blueprint and theoretically become a contender in the same mold if they wanted to, or they could venture off and create their own style/advantage.

I think Towns and Russell can be as good a good as Murray and Jokic which is why I brought up the comparison of Russell to Murray. For some reason our duo has no chance to contend on this board even though we are seeing a similar duo do it for Denver.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?

DLO and Murray?

Yep. So as much as people want Murray now we got ourselves a very similar player to him who's just 1 year older. Somehow Murray is on a contender and we have no shot to contend with Russell though. Not sure how the math works on that one.

Simple. Here is Playoff Murray, the version we're all talking about:

27/6/5/1 62.5% TS

When DLO starts putting up numbers like that, we can all rightfully get excited. Murray is a different player from what he was a season ago.

He put up almost the exact same regular season this year as last year. He's been a different player in just these playoffs so the jury is still out if this is who he is for an 82 game season or if this is a hot stretch in one playoffs. This is the bubble so I am more inclined to treat what happens here as more of an outlier than who these guys are in a normal series playing actual road games against good teams. This could be his breakout or he could just as easily be a bubble star. His regular season does not signal however that he is a different player from a year ago.

18/5/4/1 56% TS this year

The Phoenix Suns went undefeated in the bubble. TJ Warren was the best scorer in the league in the bubble. Are you expecting those high level performances to continue into next year as well? Or was it more just an outlier due to environment?

I don't know the answer. Murray is still fairly young. If he were 30, I'd say it's purely a matter of the environment. But his age and a decent-ish sample size of 14 games leave open the possibility that he has taken his game to another level. I guess we'll find out next year.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact we took the wrong guy in that draft.

[Lipoli390]

21 PPG 7 APG 4 RPG 1 SPG 53% TS 22 years old +0.3 +/-
Versus
18/5/4/1 54% TS 21 years old +3.3 +/-

Stats from last year since that was a full season. Who's who?

DLO and Murray?

Yep. So as much as people want Murray now we got ourselves a very similar player to him who's just 1 year older. Somehow Murray is on a contender and we have no shot to contend with Russell though. Not sure how the math works on that one.

Simple. Here is Playoff Murray, the version we're all talking about:

27/6/5/1 62.5% TS

When DLO starts putting up numbers like that, we can all rightfully get excited. Murray is a different player from what he was a season ago.

Q - The Nuggets won 54 games last season with Murray as their starting PG. His numbers that season were nearly identical to his regular season numbers this season - well below his playoff numbers. Murray and Russell are very similar in style and productivity. KAT and Jokic are also very similar, with KAT the better scorer and Jokic a better passer. None of these four players are good defenders.

So Kahns' comparison is on point and provides a solid basis for optimism. I'll take 50 wins and a top 4 finish in the Western Conference even if we don't end up in the Conference finals. KAT and Russell haven't had the chance to play together yet. Unfortunately, the Nuggets' duo of Murray and Jokic have a better head coach and appear to have a better supporting cast with Gary Harris, Millsap and Porter Jr. However, we haven't seen the full supporting cast of Beasley, Johnson, Layman, Naz Reid and McLaughlin in action together for anything approaching a full season. Culver is heading into his second season and Okogie into his third so they're both at points in their careers where players typically make their biggest improvement.

I'm not going to delude myself into expecting the Wolves to win 50 games next season. But the success of the Nuggets clearly provides Wolves fans with reasonable grounds for optimism based largely on the striking similarity between Denver's all-star duo and our own all-star tandem. What I believe we're seriously lacking is a good head coach. I continue to believe that Ryan Saunders is in way over his head.

[Lipoli390]

I'm sure this won't be agreed with, but I think Towns is better than Jokic and Russell is better than Murray, but everything else sides with the Nuggets over the Wolves. From the rest of the roster to the head coach and up through the front office. Minnesota could follow Denver's blueprint and theoretically become a contender in the same mold if they wanted to, or they could venture off and create their own style/advantage.

I think Towns and Russell can be as good a good as Murray and Jokic which is why I brought up the comparison of Russell to Murray. For some reason our duo has no chance to contend on this board even though we are seeing a similar duo do it for Denver.

I agree with you, Kahns. But I still wish we had drafted Murray. If we had, we wouldn't have had to give up both of our 2021 draft picks. I'm also a bit concerned about a flaky side to Russell that you don't have to worry about with Murray. Nevertheless, what Denver has done the last two years, including their success in the playoffs this year are encouraging because of the fact that KAT and Russell are so similar to Jokic and Murray.