Malik Beasley

[thedoper]

Someone sell me on the Wolves taking Anthony Edwards over Devin Vassell because the more I watch and the more I think about fit, skill profile, etc. -- I come away wanting Vassell on my team a lot more.

I see a thoroughbred in Edwards with the mentality of a turkey -- that's to say that he's lacking in basketball smarts.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/12/21134535/anthony-edwards-nba-draft-2020-georgia

This is a good profile on him that is honest with his flaws and identifies what kind of team he needs to go to in order to be a successful player. It makes me think he actually fits here really well even if I'm not the biggest fan of him. He would get to come in here and be the third option on offense with not a ton of pressure on him to run the team offensively with Russell on the floor. He's a capable 3 point shooter and his shot isn't broken so he doesn't have to come in and be a volume shooter off the dribble for us immediately and can be more of a catch and shoot guy while he improves his shot selection off the dribble. He also complements Towns and Russell in that they are more finesse players and he has the size and strength to be a more aggressive power player that gives our offense a nice wrinkle.

Everyone talks so negatively about his mentality but this is a guy who could have gone to any big program in the country to play on a good team and he chose Georgia to play for Tom Crean specifically because of what Crean was able to do with D Wade and Oladipo in terms of player development. It took those guys 3 years under Crean to become good college players so Edwards unfortunately isn't sticking around long enough to get to that point, but I think that is a good character trait to identify at that young age that you want to play like 2 guys that coach helped develop regardless of it is a big basketball program or not. If he has his eyes on becoming the next D Wade or Oladipo that's a good start towards having the right mentality for the game even if it's not all there yet in terms of basketball smarts and 100% effort.

It's also hard to know how much being "the guy" on a bad team with not a lot of help drains your mentality in college and allows the laziness to set in. People seem to forget that Simmons was in the same boat out of college as a very talented player who just wasn't trying hard all game long especially on defense. Then he gets to the NBA, he's playing on a good team with talented players and he's all of sudden an all-nba defender.

Here's an exert from his draft profile back when he was a prospect:

"Defensively, Simmons has elite instincts and anticipation skills, as evidenced by the terrific 12.9 rebounds, 2.1 steals and .9 blocks he averages per-40 minutes. He sees loose balls coming off the rim in an uncanny way, and is able to react and go grab rebounds before anyone else. When engaged and motivated, Simmons shows the ability to defend a variety of different positions on the floor, moving his feet well enough to stay in front of wings and even guards, while possessing the strength needed to slow down most power forwards in the post.

The problem is that Simmons rarely plays up to his full potential on this end of the floor. He often looks very lazy here, not making any effort whatsoever to close out on shooters and avoiding contact and physicality in a very concerning way when challenged by opposing players. He often resorts to swiping down at the ball aimlessly in hopes of generating a steal, instead of getting in a fundamentally sound stance and trying to stop his man from scoring.

While the red flags around Simmons' defense were there from the moment he stepped on the floor at the college level, as LSU's season went on, he gradually gave less and less effort here, even in his team's most important games, which raised serious question marks about his competitiveness in NBA circles. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/ ©DraftExpress"

I'm not saying Edwards has the same defensive tool bag as someone as good as Simmons nor the same brains for the game, but he does have a good physical profile to be a good defender for his position and I see the same mentality comments on Edwards that we saw with Simmons at the time. I do think being on a bad team in college with the whole team's weight on your shoulders does eventually wear guys down at 18 years old and it can be refreshing towards their mentality to get to the pros and play with superior talent where they know it's not all on them. Simmons was a phenomenal talent with big red flags around his attitude and effort and that all went away immediately when he got to the big leagues and played on a real team. Not everyone is Andrew Wiggins and just the fact that Edwards is looking at guys like Wade and Oldadipo as guys to model his game after has me believing he doesn't have the same Wiggins mentality and is closer to the Simmons mentality where college just eventually wore him down and he's ready for the next level.

Good post. The scouts certainly see something to put him there. This process is always a crap shoot where no one bats 1000. I wouldnt be disappointed to see someone that athletic playing for us.

[Lipoli390]

Great post, Kahns! I'm still in the trade down camp and I'm leery of Edwards, Ball and Wiseman. However, you effectively lay out the case for Edwards. A few thoughts.

First, I agree that Edwards mentality is closer to Simmons than to Wiggins. I don't see Wiggins in Edwards because I've seen clips of a highly emotional, animated Edwards who is clearly fired up and competitive in those moments. I've never seen any clips like that of Wiggins.

Second, I like that you posted the Simmons draft analysis. It's an example of how comments about a college prospect's motor aren't always predictive of that prospect as an NBA player. However, stats matter more to me than an analyst's observations or characterizations. No matter how any analyst might have characterized Simmons' motor on the defensive end, Ben's college stats told a different story. You don't average 12.9 rebounds, 2 steals and 1 block per game in college with a bad motor. Those are do-shit stats that require effort and commitment. While Edwards had decent rebounding and steal stats, they weren't elite like Simmons' stats. I'll also wager that Simmons took and made far more shots around the basket than Edwards. One of the most alarming stats associated with Edwards was his ratio of perimeter jump shots to points in the paint. I don't remember the number, but I saw it in an article comparing Edwards to Harden. The article noted that Harden, while a big-time perimeter shooter in college, had far more points in the pain than Edwards. It's alarming that someone with Edward's physical gifts would refrain from attacking the rim and settle for jump shots. That could suggest a lack of killer instinct and aggression that you need to be a great NBA player.

Finally, I like Edwards. I like that he went to Georgia and the reasons he gave for going there. He seems confident, yet humble. I think he loves the game of basketball and that's important. The Wolves will be able to delve deeply into the character of all these prospects. They ought to be able to develop a reliable assessment of Edward's character and motor before the November draft. If the Wolves are confident that Edwards has the motor and IQ to reach his physical potential, then they should draft him at #1 and not look back.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Good thoughts in here after I posed my question about Anthony Edwards. If an organization can correct his shot selection -- which means him buying in to the fact that he needs to attack the rim more -- and get him to care about defense even a little bit, then there is a serious player here. We're talking All-Star and probably a top scorer in the league. I just don't know how likely those corrections are, especially given this coaching staff.

[Monster]

Great post, Kahns! I'm still in the trade down camp and I'm leery of Edwards, Ball and Wiseman. However, you effectively lay out the case for Edwards. A few thoughts.

First, I agree that Edwards mentality is closer to Simmons than to Wiggins. I don't see Wiggins in Edwards because I've seen clips of a highly emotional, animated Edwards who is clearly fired up and competitive in those moments. I've never seen any clips like that of Wiggins.

Second, I like that you posted the Simmons draft analysis. It's an example of how comments about a college prospect's motor aren't always predictive of that prospect as an NBA player. However, stats matter more to me than an analyst's observations or characterizations. No matter how any analyst might have characterized Simmons' motor on the defensive end, Ben's college stats told a different story. You don't average 12.9 rebounds, 2 steals and 1 block per game in college with a bad motor. Those are do-shit stats that require effort and commitment. While Edwards had decent rebounding and steal stats, they weren't elite like Simmons' stats. I'll also wager that Simmons took and made far more shots around the basket than Edwards. One of the most alarming stats associated with Edwards was his ratio of perimeter jump shots to points in the paint. I don't remember the number, but I saw it in an article comparing Edwards to Harden. The article noted that Harden, while a big-time perimeter shooter in college, had far more points in the pain than Edwards. It's alarming that someone with Edward's physical gifts would refrain from attacking the rim and settle for jump shots. That could suggest a lack of killer instinct and aggression that you need to be a great NBA player.

Finally, I like Edwards. I like that he went to Georgia and the reasons he gave for going there. He seems confident, yet humble. I think he loves the game of basketball and that's important. The Wolves will be able to delve deeply into the character of all these prospects. They ought to be able to develop a reliable assessment of Edward's character and motor before the November draft. If the Wolves are confident that Edwards has the motor and IQ to reach his physical potential, then they should draft him at #1 and not look back.

Edwards finishing around the basket in terms of percentage may not be elite either. It's worth considering the players he was in the floor with. Georgia was a very poor shooting team. Any smart team they played probably packed the paint and dared Georgia to beat them with Jumpers. Keep in mind that desire all the bad shot selection stuff Edwards still Shot over 50% from 2 point range as a freshman on a college team that simply wasn't good. There are some good thoughts about him here in the last few posts.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Good thoughts in here after I posed my question about Anthony Edwards. If an organization can correct his shot selection -- which means him buying in to the fact that he needs to attack the rim more -- and get him to care about defense even a little bit, then there is a serious player here. We're talking All-Star and probably a top scorer in the league. I just don't know how likely those corrections are, especially given this coaching staff.

Again, when in the history of this franchise have we taken someone and fundamentally transformed their flaws? Like....never! Usually their flaws only stand out even more with the Wolves.

I will also echo Lip's comments on Simmons. He was borderline ambivalent in his one year of college in his demeanor and motor, and he STILL absolutely stuffed the stat sheet. I always used to say about Wiggins that his poor motor wouldn't bother me so much if he was swishing 3's at a 40%+ clip and dealing dimes to people off the bounce.

"Meh" production + questionable decision making + defensive indifference is a horrible combination to add to a franchise with such a weak foundation.

[thedoper]

Good thoughts in here after I posed my question about Anthony Edwards. If an organization can correct his shot selection -- which means him buying in to the fact that he needs to attack the rim more -- and get him to care about defense even a little bit, then there is a serious player here. We're talking All-Star and probably a top scorer in the league. I just don't know how likely those corrections are, especially given this coaching staff.

What do you mean? Ryan can take out his stickers again and give out gold stars every time Edwards dunks or shoots a 3.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Good thoughts in here after I posed my question about Anthony Edwards. If an organization can correct his shot selection -- which means him buying in to the fact that he needs to attack the rim more -- and get him to care about defense even a little bit, then there is a serious player here. We're talking All-Star and probably a top scorer in the league. I just don't know how likely those corrections are, especially given this coaching staff.

Again, when in the history of this franchise have we taken someone and fundamentally transformed their flaws? Like....never! Usually their flaws only stand out even more with the Wolves.

I will also echo Lip's comments on Simmons. He was borderline ambivalent in his one year of college in his demeanor and motor, and he STILL absolutely stuffed the stat sheet. I always used to say about Wiggins that his poor motor wouldn't bother me so much if he was swishing 3's at a 40%+ clip and dealing dimes to people off the bounce.

"Meh" production + questionable decision making + defensive indifference is a horrible combination to add to a franchise with such a weak foundation.

At the end of the day Simmons is a 6'10 big man who plays like a guard. That physical profile in college should be able to dominate a game on the boards and defensively. Edwards is a 6'5 guard which is why I was referring to the mentality more than the stats because expecting a 6'5 guard to rebound and block shots at Ben's level isn't right. 5.2 boards and 1.3 steals are solid numbers for a perimeter player. Those numbers matchup to Oladipo's sophomore season at Indiana so it's not like he's complete garbage from an effort and skill standpoint.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Good thoughts in here after I posed my question about Anthony Edwards. If an organization can correct his shot selection -- which means him buying in to the fact that he needs to attack the rim more -- and get him to care about defense even a little bit, then there is a serious player here. We're talking All-Star and probably a top scorer in the league. I just don't know how likely those corrections are, especially given this coaching staff.

Again, when in the history of this franchise have we taken someone and fundamentally transformed their flaws? Like....never! Usually their flaws only stand out even more with the Wolves.

I will also echo Lip's comments on Simmons. He was borderline ambivalent in his one year of college in his demeanor and motor, and he STILL absolutely stuffed the stat sheet. I always used to say about Wiggins that his poor motor wouldn't bother me so much if he was swishing 3's at a 40%+ clip and dealing dimes to people off the bounce.

"Meh" production + questionable decision making + defensive indifference is a horrible combination to add to a franchise with such a weak foundation.

At the end of the day Simmons is a 6'10 big man who plays like a guard. That physical profile in college should be able to dominate a game on the boards and defensively. Edwards is a 6'5 guard which is why I was referring to the mentality more than the stats because expecting a 6'5 guard to rebound and block shots at Ben's level isn't right. 5.2 boards and 1.3 steals are solid numbers for a perimeter player. Those numbers matchup to Oladipo's sophomore season at Indiana so it's not like he's complete garbage from an effort and skill standpoint.

Those numbers also match a gazillion other average-ish college wings. I'm just saying a #1 pick should stand out in something.....anything. OK, so he's good at taking a lot of bad shots. Been there done that with Wiggins! Give me a defensive monster that plays within himself 10X over the inefficient shot creator.

[Lipoli390]

Great post, Kahns! I'm still in the trade down camp and I'm leery of Edwards, Ball and Wiseman. However, you effectively lay out the case for Edwards. A few thoughts.

First, I agree that Edwards mentality is closer to Simmons than to Wiggins. I don't see Wiggins in Edwards because I've seen clips of a highly emotional, animated Edwards who is clearly fired up and competitive in those moments. I've never seen any clips like that of Wiggins.

Second, I like that you posted the Simmons draft analysis. It's an example of how comments about a college prospect's motor aren't always predictive of that prospect as an NBA player. However, stats matter more to me than an analyst's observations or characterizations. No matter how any analyst might have characterized Simmons' motor on the defensive end, Ben's college stats told a different story. You don't average 12.9 rebounds, 2 steals and 1 block per game in college with a bad motor. Those are do-shit stats that require effort and commitment. While Edwards had decent rebounding and steal stats, they weren't elite like Simmons' stats. I'll also wager that Simmons took and made far more shots around the basket than Edwards. One of the most alarming stats associated with Edwards was his ratio of perimeter jump shots to points in the paint. I don't remember the number, but I saw it in an article comparing Edwards to Harden. The article noted that Harden, while a big-time perimeter shooter in college, had far more points in the pain than Edwards. It's alarming that someone with Edward's physical gifts would refrain from attacking the rim and settle for jump shots. That could suggest a lack of killer instinct and aggression that you need to be a great NBA player.

Finally, I like Edwards. I like that he went to Georgia and the reasons he gave for going there. He seems confident, yet humble. I think he loves the game of basketball and that's important. The Wolves will be able to delve deeply into the character of all these prospects. They ought to be able to develop a reliable assessment of Edward's character and motor before the November draft. If the Wolves are confident that Edwards has the motor and IQ to reach his physical potential, then they should draft him at #1 and not look back.

Edwards finishing around the basket in terms of percentage may not be elite either. It's worth considering the players he was in the floor with. Georgia was a very poor shooting team. Any smart team they played probably packed the paint and dared Georgia to beat them with Jumpers. Keep in mind that desire all the bad shot selection stuff Edwards still Shot over 50% from 2 point range as a freshman on a college team that simply wasn't good. There are some good thoughts about him here in the last few posts.

Good points, Monster. Lots of good thoughts on Edwards in this thread. That's why the possibility of drafting him is so exciting and scary at the same time. This will be a big test for the Rosas regime. No doubt they'll be turning over every stone in pursuit of possible deals. But you'd think they'll also be turning over every stone in their analysis of the top draft prospects, especially Edwards.

[Lipoli390]

Good thoughts in here after I posed my question about Anthony Edwards. If an organization can correct his shot selection -- which means him buying in to the fact that he needs to attack the rim more -- and get him to care about defense even a little bit, then there is a serious player here. We're talking All-Star and probably a top scorer in the league. I just don't know how likely those corrections are, especially given this coaching staff.

I think you've boiled down the analysis perfectly, Cam. Like you, I don't trust this coaching staff.