Minnesota Sports Forum

D'Angelo Russell has been good -- not just this year. Some fans are perhaps just realizing it this year, which is their own mistake. That needed to be clarified. D-Lo's been a good shooter. He's been a good facilitator. He's taken care of the basketball. All of this was true before this season. I think he's definitely improved defensively, but we already had evidence that he could contribute to a competent defensive team.

I agree with those who have confidence in Minnesota's little-big three moving forward as the core. I wouldn't break them apart given the progress we've seen thus far. I would explore a contract extension with Russell after this season, assuming he stays healthy and productive. Mostly, the front office needs to focus on adding quality depth and more two-way players.

Im fine with them staying the course with the core. We need more pros on this team. You just look at the impact that a competent professional like Beverly as had on this team. I believe another vet or 2 would make a huge difference for us.

D-Loser wrote:Whoa whoa whoa Cam, Dlo has been solid this year and he's the best we have, but let's not pretend that he's some great (or even good overall) player who's deserving of that max contract. His shooting percentage still sucks and we've got some wins against some pretty bad and/or undermanned teams. If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up. The dlo trade was still a failure (look how good the guy gs drafted has looked lately)... it'll be really interesting to see if the new owners are smart enough to avoid giving him another max contract.

Your response is a bit all over the place so I'll try to reply in the best way that I can. D'Angelo Russell is a good NBA player, especially in the context of this team. That's undeniable at this point. You can choose to ignore that if you wish, but you'd remain wrong in doing so. I've never said he's deserving of a max contract, but he's in the tier of players that are worth just below that. Also, rarely are players paid what they're actually worth in this league. It's always been about what their market dictates. Russell was fortunate that Kevin Durant chose Brooklyn, which opened the door for him to get paid, or overpaid. The trade to acquire Russell is a win-win for both teams at this point. Minnesota went from winning 43-percent of their games when Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins played to winning 56-percent of their games when Towns and Russell played. The Wolves came out of that trade with new life and significantly better results.

thedoper wrote:Im fine with them staying the course with the core. We need more pros on this team. You just look at the impact that a competent professional like Beverly as had on this team. I believe another vet or 2 would make a huge difference for us.

Completely agree. They need competent veterans who know where to be, know what to do, and can play their role accordingly. That experience helps with mitigating mistakes on the court. Far too often this season we've had games where multiple players provide absolutely nothing and the game is lost because of that.

D-Mac wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:DLO has been I think far above my expectations other then his shooting percentages. He was jacking up a few too many shots early on in the year and it seems he has progressed from that ISO jack up style. Now he is playing pretty darn good. I've been pretty impressed with him, though my expectations were far lower too. On that front I'm happy.

I'm not picking on you here, WolvesFan, but there are many NBA fans and pundits who frankly didn't know D'Angelo Russell's game very well before this season and they made that evident with the way they talked about him over the summer. I'd also expect that most of those same fans/pundits are quite pleased with the season he's had to this point even with some inconsistent shooting.

I came across https://twitter.com/andrewdbailey/status/1484904641787686912?s=21these numbers from Bleacher Report's Andy Bailey earlier today and decided to copy it over here.


[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]NetRtg WITH D'Angelo Russell[/th]
[th]NetRtg WITHOUT D'Angelo Russell[/th]
[th]Difference[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Malik Beasley[/td]
[td]2.2[/td]
[td]-6.8[/td]
[td]9.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Patrick Beverley[/td]
[td]19.7[/td]
[td]-6.3[/td]
[td]26.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Anthony Edwards[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]-3.5[/td]
[td]16.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jaden McDaniels[/td]
[td]1.3[/td]
[td]-6.2[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jaylen Nowell[/td]
[td]2.0[/td]
[td]-4.6[/td]
[td]6.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Josh Okogie[/td]
[td]7.8[/td]
[td]-7.0[/td]
[td]14.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Taurean Prince[/td]
[td]-0.4[/td]
[td]-10.7[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Naz Reid[/td]
[td]-2.5[/td]
[td]-12.5[/td]
[td]10.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Karl-Anthony Towns[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]-7.1[/td]
[td]19.9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jarred Vanderbilt[/td]
[td]14.2[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

The takeaway? D-Lo is getting his individual numbers, but he also makes the other 10 players in the possible rotation significantly better. It wouldn't be a reach to argue that he's Minnesota's most valuable player to this point despite not being the best player on the team. The potentially scary part? Those shooting numbers are starting to rise for him considerably... He's shooting 43.0 FG / 38.0 3P / 80.3 FT over his last 20 games with a .566 TS%.

Whoa whoa whoa Cam, Dlo has been solid this year and he's the best we have, but let's not pretend that he's some great (or even good overall) player who's deserving of that max contract. His shooting percentage still sucks and we've got some wins against some pretty bad and/or undermanned teams. If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up.If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up. The dlo trade was still a failure (look how good the guy gs drafted has looked lately)... it'll be really interesting to see if the new owners are smart enough to avoid giving him another max contract.

Wait, your minimum threshold of success is 6th seed this season!? Otherwise, the DLO trade was a failure?

Camden wrote:

D-Loser wrote:Whoa whoa whoa Cam, Dlo has been solid this year and he's the best we have, but let's not pretend that he's some great (or even good overall) player who's deserving of that max contract. His shooting percentage still sucks and we've got some wins against some pretty bad and/or undermanned teams. If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up. The dlo trade was still a failure (look how good the guy gs drafted has looked lately)... it'll be really interesting to see if the new owners are smart enough to avoid giving him another max contract.

Your response is a bit all over the place so I'll try to reply in the best way that I can. D'Angelo Russell is a good NBA player, especially in the context of this team. That's undeniable at this point. You can choose to ignore that if you wish, but you'd remain wrong in doing so. I've never said he's deserving of a max contract, but he's in the tier of players that are worth just below that. Also, rarely are players paid what they're actually worth in this league. It's always been about what their market dictates. Russell was fortunate that Kevin Durant chose Brooklyn, which opened the door for him to get paid, or overpaid. The trade to acquire Russell is a win-win for both teams at this point. Minnesota went from winning 43-percent of their games when Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins played to winning 56-percent of their games when Towns and Russell played. The Wolves came out of that trade with new life and significantly better results.

I'll add that if we are gonna pick winners and losers of various transactions by Rosas involving GS then damn I'll be ok being a bit on the losing end of the Wiggins Russell deal (Cam makes a case it's worked out well) and take having Edwards over Wiseman who many people here were wanted. Hopefully Wiseman can get healthy and have a nice career but it's not going well so far and bigs with that many injuries are certainly worrisome. Meanwhile Edwards looks to be a likely star and is already looking like a 2-way player and one of the best personalities in the league. Right now picking Edwards looks like a heck of a pick. Kuminga? I personally liked what I saw of him in SL but he needs to do a lot more before I get too disappointed in not having him or someone else that could have been selected there.

As Cam has laid out Russell is doing some really nice things. The stats/indicators I prefer to see are his ability to impact the game defensively and also it seems he is finding his role as a scorer and distributor and his turnover rate is down and assists have stayed the same rate and that's with a lower usage (not perfect stat). Basically Russell is doing thing to make his teammates better and win basketball games. His shooting numbers have been rising due to a very good January and so now they aren't that far off what you could have reasonably expected from him for the season and they could still go higher to look very good.

We can make conclusions or judgements on the information we have right now. We won't all agree on those and that's ok. This is a discussion board. Ultimately we won't know some of the answers to whether a move was correct or how good a player was until...well honestly some players career's are over and you will have people arguing how good they were or weren't. :)

Q-was-here wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:DLO has been I think far above my expectations other then his shooting percentages. He was jacking up a few too many shots early on in the year and it seems he has progressed from that ISO jack up style. Now he is playing pretty darn good. I've been pretty impressed with him, though my expectations were far lower too. On that front I'm happy.

I'm not picking on you here, WolvesFan, but there are many NBA fans and pundits who frankly didn't know D'Angelo Russell's game very well before this season and they made that evident with the way they talked about him over the summer. I'd also expect that most of those same fans/pundits are quite pleased with the season he's had to this point even with some inconsistent shooting.

I came across https://twitter.com/andrewdbailey/status/1484904641787686912?s=21these numbers from Bleacher Report's Andy Bailey earlier today and decided to copy it over here.


[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]NetRtg WITH D'Angelo Russell[/th]
[th]NetRtg WITHOUT D'Angelo Russell[/th]
[th]Difference[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Malik Beasley[/td]
[td]2.2[/td]
[td]-6.8[/td]
[td]9.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Patrick Beverley[/td]
[td]19.7[/td]
[td]-6.3[/td]
[td]26.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Anthony Edwards[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]-3.5[/td]
[td]16.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jaden McDaniels[/td]
[td]1.3[/td]
[td]-6.2[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jaylen Nowell[/td]
[td]2.0[/td]
[td]-4.6[/td]
[td]6.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Josh Okogie[/td]
[td]7.8[/td]
[td]-7.0[/td]
[td]14.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Taurean Prince[/td]
[td]-0.4[/td]
[td]-10.7[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Naz Reid[/td]
[td]-2.5[/td]
[td]-12.5[/td]
[td]10.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Karl-Anthony Towns[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]-7.1[/td]
[td]19.9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jarred Vanderbilt[/td]
[td]14.2[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

The takeaway? D-Lo is getting his individual numbers, but he also makes the other 10 players in the possible rotation significantly better. It wouldn't be a reach to argue that he's Minnesota's most valuable player to this point despite not being the best player on the team. The potentially scary part? Those shooting numbers are starting to rise for him considerably... He's shooting 43.0 FG / 38.0 3P / 80.3 FT over his last 20 games with a .566 TS%.

Whoa whoa whoa Cam, Dlo has been solid this year and he's the best we have, but let's not pretend that he's some great (or even good overall) player who's deserving of that max contract. His shooting percentage still sucks and we've got some wins against some pretty bad and/or undermanned teams. If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up.If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up. The dlo trade was still a failure (look how good the guy gs drafted has looked lately)... it'll be really interesting to see if the new owners are smart enough to avoid giving him another max contract.

Wait, your minimum threshold of success is 6th seed this season!? Otherwise, the DLO trade was a failure?

What? I'm saying that Dlo has surprised me and played well so far this year, but I'm also saying let's wait a full season before we anoint him as a great player. Yes, right now I'm choosing to draw the line for a successful regular season as getting into the top 6... is that a crazy claim or are you ok with that? If we remain healthy I'll be disappointed if this team can't get top 6. Dlo has improved on defense, but the organization has also done a good job of surrounding kat and Dlo with players that cover their weaknesses (defense and leadership). He's definitely making progress and I hope he can keep it up. The lazy passes and horrible shot selection were really bad... I just hope the improvements are permanent.

D-Loser wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:DLO has been I think far above my expectations other then his shooting percentages. He was jacking up a few too many shots early on in the year and it seems he has progressed from that ISO jack up style. Now he is playing pretty darn good. I've been pretty impressed with him, though my expectations were far lower too. On that front I'm happy.

I'm not picking on you here, WolvesFan, but there are many NBA fans and pundits who frankly didn't know D'Angelo Russell's game very well before this season and they made that evident with the way they talked about him over the summer. I'd also expect that most of those same fans/pundits are quite pleased with the season he's had to this point even with some inconsistent shooting.

I came across https://twitter.com/andrewdbailey/status/1484904641787686912?s=21these numbers from Bleacher Report's Andy Bailey earlier today and decided to copy it over here.


[table]
[tr]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]NetRtg WITH D'Angelo Russell[/th]
[th]NetRtg WITHOUT D'Angelo Russell[/th]
[th]Difference[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Malik Beasley[/td]
[td]2.2[/td]
[td]-6.8[/td]
[td]9.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Patrick Beverley[/td]
[td]19.7[/td]
[td]-6.3[/td]
[td]26.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Anthony Edwards[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]-3.5[/td]
[td]16.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jaden McDaniels[/td]
[td]1.3[/td]
[td]-6.2[/td]
[td]7.5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jaylen Nowell[/td]
[td]2.0[/td]
[td]-4.6[/td]
[td]6.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Josh Okogie[/td]
[td]7.8[/td]
[td]-7.0[/td]
[td]14.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Taurean Prince[/td]
[td]-0.4[/td]
[td]-10.7[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Naz Reid[/td]
[td]-2.5[/td]
[td]-12.5[/td]
[td]10.0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Karl-Anthony Towns[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]-7.1[/td]
[td]19.9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Jarred Vanderbilt[/td]
[td]14.2[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[td]14.5[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

The takeaway? D-Lo is getting his individual numbers, but he also makes the other 10 players in the possible rotation significantly better. It wouldn't be a reach to argue that he's Minnesota's most valuable player to this point despite not being the best player on the team. The potentially scary part? Those shooting numbers are starting to rise for him considerably... He's shooting 43.0 FG / 38.0 3P / 80.3 FT over his last 20 games with a .566 TS%.

Whoa whoa whoa Cam, Dlo has been solid this year and he's the best we have, but let's not pretend that he's some great (or even good overall) player who's deserving of that max contract. His shooting percentage still sucks and we've got some wins against some pretty bad and/or undermanned teams. If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up.If he actually leads us to a top 6 seed by the end of the year, I'll change my name, but I honestly don't see us finishing top 6 unless Ant blows up. The dlo trade was still a failure (look how good the guy gs drafted has looked lately)... it'll be really interesting to see if the new owners are smart enough to avoid giving him another max contract.

Wait, your minimum threshold of success is 6th seed this season!? Otherwise, the DLO trade was a failure?

What? I'm saying that Dlo has surprised me and played well so far this year, but I'm also saying let's wait a full season before we anoint him as a great player. Yes, right now I'm choosing to draw the line for a successful regular season as getting into the top 6... is that a crazy claim or are you ok with that? If we remain healthy I'll be disappointed if this team can't get top 6. Dlo has improved on defense, but the organization has also done a good job of surrounding kat and Dlo with players that cover their weaknesses (defense and leadership). He's definitely making progress and I hope he can keep it up. The lazy passes and horrible shot selection were really bad... I just hope the improvements are permanent.

So my question after reading these threads from you.

Do you believe the wolves would have better record right now if they still had Wiggins and the pick?

Because say what you want about Dlo the stats above don't lie about how he affects his teammates plays. I was Wiggins supporter for long time but one thing he never did was make his team mates better for us.

The fact is Wiggins is playing the Harrison Barnes role for the Warriors right now and he's probably doing it better than when Harrison Barnes was there but that is his role and it's not to be top 3 player there. This is why I want to trade for Barnes because I believe he's one of the last pieces in the puzzle to make this team a top 6 team.

You've seen it tonight and few recent games when 2 of the 3 Beasley Prince or McDaniels give this team a boost offensively this team is extremely hard to beat. The problem is there so damn inconsistent and is part problem why were .500

I will say part of this has been remedy because of how consistent Nowell has been playing though.