Minnesota Sports Forum

Mikkeman wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:
Steph Curry, Derozan, Butler, Lowry, Conley. All guys who didn't become all-star caliber players until their second contracts. Butler isn't the one exception.

I think that problem is not the Wiggins current level of play but more the fact that he has shown very little improvement over 180 games that he has played in NBA and most of his improvement came already during his first season when he scored 20 points per game post all star break. After that only improvement that we have seen has been his three point shooting.

Wiggins 2014-15 post all star break per 36 minutes stats:
18.4 pts, 4.5 rbs, 2.1 ast, 0.9 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 44.6 FG% 78.3 FT% 53.3 TS% 15.9 PER
2015-16:
21.2 pts, 3.7 rbs, 2.1 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 45.9 FG% 76.1 FT% 54.3 TS% 16.5 PER
2016-:
21.5 pts, 4.2 rbs, 2.3 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.4 blk 2.5 TOs 43.4 FG% 76.1 FT% 53.1 TS% 15.4 PER

So outside of improvement in his three point shooting, it is very difficult to find anything that he would do clearly better now than in second half of his rookie season. It even seems that his efficiency near rim has dropped from 66.5% (rookie season) to 60.4 (current season) that explains why improvement in three point shooting is not visible in TS%. (it doesn't even compensate his inefficiency elsewhere)

From Khan's list of players, only DeRozan and Lowry have had as long period of games in their early career without much statistical improvement, so it appears to be pretty damn rare that players that have not shown much improvement over their first 180 games, will suddenly start improving later.

monsterpile wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:
Steph Curry, Derozan, Butler, Lowry, Conley. All guys who didn't become all-star caliber players until their second contracts. Butler isn't the one exception.

I think that problem is not the Wiggins current level of play but more the fact that he has shown very little improvement over 180 games that he has played in NBA and most of his improvement came already during his first season when he scored 20 points per game post all star break. After that only improvement that we have seen has been his three point shooting.

Wiggins 2014-15 post all star break per 36 minutes stats:
18.4 pts, 4.5 rbs, 2.1 ast, 0.9 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 44.6 FG% 78.3 FT% 53.3 TS% 15.9 PER
2015-16:
21.2 pts, 3.7 rbs, 2.1 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.6 blk 2.3 TOs 45.9 FG% 76.1 FT% 54.3 TS% 16.5 PER
2016-:
21.5 pts, 4.2 rbs, 2.3 ast, 0.6 stl, 0.4 blk 2.5 TOs 43.4 FG% 76.1 FT% 53.1 TS% 15.4 PER

So outside of improvement in his three point shooting, it is very difficult to find anything that he would do clearly better now than in second half of his rookie season. It even seems that his efficiency near rim has dropped from 66.5% (rookie season) to 60.4 (current season) that explains why improvement in three point shooting is not visible in TS%. (it doesn't even compensate his inefficiency elsewhere)

From Khan's list of players, only DeRozan and Lowry have had as long period of games in their early career without much statistical improvement, so it appears to be pretty damn rare that players that have not shown much improvement over their first 180 games, will suddenly start improving later.

This is a good post and people have made similar ones about Wiggins and it feels weird that his 3 point shooting like just sort of glossed over like it's not that big of a deal. IF his ability to shoot 3's like he has this year is real I think it's a pretty big deal.

monsterpile wrote:It was just a few months ago people were saying Wiggins would never be a shooter and now his shot legitimately looks better and he is hitting 3's. He has to sustain that for a while but man he looks to be way ahead of schedule on that. People have been saying his shot is a problem for a while. What if he has legitimately improved that aspect that people said wasn't going to be a strength?

Is it possible a few months from now Wiggins ball handling and playmaking looks a lot more legit? It's been 30 months since the guy has been drafted (remember he spent a while in the Cavs organization Summer league etc so in a way he has played for 4 different coaches organizations in his career) it still feels so early in his career and he does some things so well that is very impressive. I've heard so many NBA coaches gush about his ability to score. I get where the critism comes from (there is legit stuff) but man sometimes it just feels like people aren't wanting to feel good about Wiggins. It makes sense as a Wolves fan but it's also kind of a downer and it drives me a little crazy and Wiggins isn't like my favorite player or anything.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Wait. I thought Rubio was the whipping boy around here.

We can't have two of them! Get it together people.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Wait. I thought Rubio was the whipping boy around here.

We can't have two of them! Get it together people.

I think its at least 3 because Bazz gets it also. The surprise of the year is Payne has been spared. Thibs should probably get COY for that accomplishment alone right?