Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:Need to turn focus towards Brandon Ingram. That guy might have the highest ceiling in this draft, including Ben Simmons.

I feel like that between LaVine, Wiggins, and Towns, we've hit our "high upside, but is young and has to fill out more" quota. I mean, how many more 19/20 year old kids do we really need on this roster?

And one thing seems to be true with even the most promising rookies: They almost always are a net negative in their first year.

I don't know - I almost feel like trading down and getting a guy that actually has a track record of producing and having filled out is a better route to go this year (like a Denzell Valentine type). Or just trade the pick for a young-ish veteran that has taken a few laps around league and knows what he's doing out there.

I'm not opposed to trading the pick, but I just don't see many young-ish veterans that I'd trade for that would actually be available. And I'd rather not water down a top-five pick by going for four-year college players that have limited upside. They're harder to project in today's game, in my opinion.

PS: Ingram's absolute floor is a 6'9/6'10 legitimate 3/D player. Just turned 18 on September 2nd. Second youngest player in the class. Youth is one of his selling points.

I haven't really thought about much who might be available that I'd like in terms of trading the pick, so I really have no idea. I also agree that if we end up in the top 5 and don't trade out of it, then yeah, we pretty much have to go with a high upside young dude. I'm just tired of waiting for these guys to get good. LaVine and Wiggins logged thousands of minutes last season and neither have showed much progress as 2nd year vets. LaVine has been downright awful of late.

While I appreciate your knowledge of the college game, it's hard for me to take very serious any absolute declaration on a player like Ingram (in this case, what his floor is). Even the best college prospect prognosticators and front offices miss badly on occasion.

They're 20 year old sophomores for crying out loud.

Tell me who's who as sophomores.

12.1/5.6/2.4/1.6 30 MPG's
20.4/3.8/1.7/.79 35 MPG's

13.4/3.1/3.2/.6 24 MPG's
8.6/4.0/1.4/1.0 26 MPG's

The answers are PG13 compared to Wiggins and Lavine compared to Jimmy Butler. So Wiggins is slightly behind PG13 at this point overall and Lavine is slightly ahead of Butler at this point. Butler in fact didn't click until his 4th year. Expecting 2nd year players to do even more than they already are seems greatly impatient. You might want to come back down to earth and join the rest of us because your expectations seem too high for such young players. Love didn't turn it on until year 3 either for us either so I'm not sure why you are expecting so much out of sophomores just because they played a bunch on a horrible team as rookies. It typically takes 3 years so I'm not sure why you're impatient during the second year. If we're in the same spot next year then I'd get impatient.

PG-13 wasn't a #1 pick like Wiggins and he pretty much did everything better than Wiggins, except volume scoring, in his 2nd season (I see you conveniently left off 3-point shooting and overall scoring efficiency, which I value as much or more than every other stat you listed).

I'm not sure why you chose Butler as a comparison for LaVine.

I'm not sure where LaVine or Wiggins ultimately land as players - they both might be stars some day - but one of the reasons for watching a young team that struggles to win games is to hopefully witness some improvement from its young guys. I haven't seen it with these two yet.

Watched 5 minutes of Ben Simmons for the first time today and I'm off the bandwagon. He's literally Beasley 2.0. He couldn't give two shits about defense (I don't know how he averages as many boards as he does because he rarely if ever boxes out), he's talking down to his teammates while giving very little overall effort and he's clearly getting by on his athletic gifts which won't be an advantage he has at the next level. I think he's smart, he's a great passer and he can handle the ball for a big, but his jump shot is hot garbage. I'll try to catch a few more games this year and see if his attitude changes, but he's already looking like a very entitled player and I would rather get a grinding gamer than a diva. I'm having serious Beasley at KSU flashbacks when watching him which totally explains to me why LSU has had some struggles this year.

With the Wolves inching closer and closer to the bottom of the West, I thought I'd give my thoughts on some prospects in the draft.

Brandon Ingram - My favorite prospect in the draft and the guy I'd want the Wolves to take with the #1 pick. He'd fit so well next to Wiggins and Towns. His shooting ability and perimeter defense is just what this team is missing. I think the KD comparison is actually terrific, not only in the sense of skills, but also in the fact of how overlooked he is, in comparison to Ben Simmons, just as Durant was with Oden.

Ben Simmons - It's really amazing what this guy has been able to do with the players around him. His basketball instincts are unteachable. However, I don't know if he'll be able to dominate at the same level people expect him to in the NBA and I don't think he's the right fit for the Wolves. I'm a firm believer that if this team is successful it will be behind Ricky Rubio's leadership and I don't see how a team with Ben Simmons and Ricky Rubio on the floor together can be successful. That being said, if we land the 2nd pick and Ingram is gone, I'd either search for a Godfather offer for Simmons or try to find a 3 and D PG or pick for Rubio.

Dragan Bender - I think people want to sell him as the next Porzingas, but I think he's more comparable to the KP of the 2014 draft. I think he's a couple years away and still don't think he has quite the same abilities, whether it be length, height, or athletic ability. With the current makeup of the team I don't know if I'd spend a top 3 pick on him. That being said, when or if he does fill out and become a factor in the NBA, I think he'd be the perfect fit for our PF of the future. He brings shooting, length, and defensive potential

Ivan Rabb - Another guy I like because I think he could fill our need of a PF of the future. Pretty raw still but is showing potential on the block already, and his 75% free throw percentage indicates he has potential from mid-range and maybe beyond. He's also shown defensive potential and has good rebounding numbers.

Skal Labissiere - If we're in the 8-12 range, he could be that bang or bust guy. He's got all the tools to be a top 10 PF in this league, but may be lacking confidence (sounds familiar, D-Will, AB) but in this range I'd probably take a shot at him

Ivan Rabb is another Vonleh. Avoid at all costs.

Simmons and Beasley don't even belong in the same sentence together. I think you need to watch more of Simmons. He's a perimeter jumper away from being LeBron James at that age. That's his only drawback, though it is something to keep in mind. NBA defenders will sag off of him. The good thing is that he makes his free throws. All that attacking he does isn't wasted.

Also, you don't pass up Simmons because you have Rubio. I understand the non-shooting lineup woes, but Simmons right this second is a better player than Rubio, and he's around $10M cheaper per year. He's got a chance to be one of those super-superstars that make the playoffs by himself.

Camden0916 wrote:Simmons and Beasley don't even belong in the same sentence together. I think you need to watch more of Simmons. He's a perimeter jumper away from being LeBron James at that age. That's his only drawback, though it is something to keep in mind. NBA defenders will sag off of him. The good thing is that he makes his free throws. All that attacking he does isn't wasted.

That's his only weakness on offense. He literally played zero defense today and didn't box anyone out. I would put a majority of Florida's success scoring in the paint on Simmons just standing around and watching everything. He doesn't have a hustle or try hard bone in his body except when he has the ball and is looking to score. Watch his defense the next time you see him. It would rival Harden's defense this year of not giving a shit.

Camden wrote:Also, you don't pass up Simmons because you have Rubio. I understand the non-shooting lineup woes, but Simmons right this second is a better player than Rubio, and he's around $10M cheaper per year. He's got a chance to be one of those super-superstars that make the playoffs by himself.

I gave that as one of the reasons I like Ingram better, and said you pretty much have to trade one of them. Never said I'd pass him up, except for Ingram

This is where wolves fans feel most comfortable, talking draft picks and who they think is the best fit. And then defending those picks when the season starts. I'm sure whoever we get will completely change this team around and make us a contender.

You take the BPA. It sounds like it is Simons.