Minnesota Sports Forum

The Wolves are where they are because of a lot of poor draft decisions by multiple front office regimes.

Flip traded down rather than take McCollum. Some of you might remember how unhappy I was with that decision at the time. Flip then doubled down on his decision to trade the rights to McCollum by taking Shabazz instead of, among others, Giannis. I'll confess I didn't predict that Giannis would become the superstar he's become. But I loved his upside at the time and would have taken him. Flip proceeding to triple-down on his poor draft decisions that year by trading the 27th pick in the draft for cash instead of using that pick to draft Gobert.

Thibs came along and in his first draft, he took Dunn instead of Hield or Murray. Most on this message board were unhappy with that decision. Thibodeau couldn't even do better that the rubes on this message board. That's pathetic. The next year, Thibodeau did the Butler deal and took Patton instead of either John Collins or Anunoby. At least a few of us on this board thought that was a terrible decisions. And let's fact it, it's not just Patton's injury. Patton has long since recovered from his foot issue but has continued to be a bust.

Rosas came along next and what has he done? Well, in his first draft, he traded up for a guy, Garland, without knowing for sure he could get him. As it turns out, the Cavs took Garland. Then Rosas drafted Culver. Yes, Culver was a consensus top 7 pick, but most of us on this board were not high on Culver and strongly favored other alternatives. As it turns out, Culver is looking like a complete draft bust while guys like PJ Washington, Cam Johnson and Tyler Herro and Brandon Clarke are excelling.

At least Flip got it right taking Towns with the top pick in 2015. And it would appear that Rosas got it right taking Edwards with the top pick last year. It's also looking like Rosas might have hit the nail on the head taking McDaniels at #27. And there still hope that he got it right with Bolmaro at #23. We might look back in a couple years and consider Rosas the best front office head the Wolves have ever had.

lipoli390 wrote:The Wolves are where they are because of a lot of poor draft decisions by multiple front office regimes.

Flip traded down rather than take McCollum. Some of you might remember how unhappy I was with that decision at the time. Flip then doubled down on his decision to trade the rights to McCollum by taking Shabazz instead of, among others, Giannis. I'll confess I didn't predict that Giannis would become the superstar he's become. But I loved his upside at the time and would have taken him. Flip proceeding to triple-down on his poor draft decisions that year by trading the 27th pick in the draft for cash instead of using that pick to draft Gobert.

Thibs came along and in his first draft, he took Dunn instead of Hield or Murray. Most on this message board were unhappy with that decision. Thibodeau couldn't even do better that the rubes on this message board. That's pathetic. The next year, Thibodeau did the Butler deal and took Patton instead of either John Collins or Anunoby. At least a few of us on this board thought that was a terrible decisions. And let's fact it, it's not just Patton's injury. Patton has long since recovered from his foot issue but has continued to be a bust.

Rosas came along next and what has he done? Well, in his first draft, he traded up for a guy, Garland, without knowing for sure he could get him. As it turns out, the Cavs took Garland. Then Rosas drafted Culver. Yes, Culver was a consensus top 7 pick, but most of us on this board were not high on Culver and strongly favored other alternatives. As it turns out, Culver is looking like a complete draft bust while guys like PJ Washington, Cam Johnson and Tyler Herro and Brandon Clarke are excelling.

At least Flip got it right taking Towns with the top pick in 2015. And it would appear that Rosas got it right taking Edwards with the top pick last year. It's also looking like Rosas might have hit the nail on the head taking McDaniels at #27. And there still hope that he got it right with Bolmaro at #23. We might look back in a couple years and consider Rosas the best front office head the Wolves have ever had.

It will be interesting to see how the Edwards-McDaniels-Bolmaro draft ages. You are right that Rosas could establish himself as an all-time great front office leader for the Wolves with a single draft. That's both encouraging and kind of pathetic.

I think the Jon K visit on Dan Barreiro show has come up in other threads. I never listen to sports or talk radio, but I did dial this convo up on-demand. Here is a quick summary:

- Ant and Naz are fine - minor injuries
- Wolves aggressive in pursuing Simmons, but a lot would have to go right for it to happen...likely a 3-team deal.
- DLO still a key piece to Rosas, so likely someone he is not willing to part with to get Simmons.
- Franchise moving to Seattle or Vegas in the near-term to medium-term is pure B.S. Ignore the noise.
- Bolmaro almost certainly coming over.

Q12543 wrote:I think the Jon K visit on Dan Barreiro show has come up in other threads. I never listen to sports or talk radio, but I did dial this convo up on-demand. Here is a quick summary:

- Ant and Naz are fine - minor injuries
- Wolves aggressive in pursuing Simmons, but a lot would have to go right for it to happen...likely a 3-team deal.
- DLO still a key piece to Rosas, so likely someone he is not willing to part with to get Simmons.
- Franchise moving to Seattle or Vegas in the near-term to medium-term is pure B.S. Ignore the noise.
- Bolmaro almost certainly coming over.

Thanks, Q! All of this is good news, except the aggressive pursuit of Simmons. I know I'm probably alone on this board in not wanting to pursue Simmons. But in my view, we'd have to give up way too much to get a guy who can't stretch the defense or hit free throws and who doesn't provide rim-protection, strong interior defense or mental toughness. Moreover, his ability to be effective on the offensive end requires him to have the ball in his hands, which won't fit well with a team that already has three players who need the ball in their hands - KAT, Ant and presumably DLO since it doesn't look like Rosas will include DLO in a Simmons deal. John Collins, Myles Turner and Rashaun Holmes would all be better fits than Simmons and cost less to acquire.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think the Jon K visit on Dan Barreiro show has come up in other threads. I never listen to sports or talk radio, but I did dial this convo up on-demand. Here is a quick summary:

- Ant and Naz are fine - minor injuries
- Wolves aggressive in pursuing Simmons, but a lot would have to go right for it to happen...likely a 3-team deal.
- DLO still a key piece to Rosas, so likely someone he is not willing to part with to get Simmons.
- Franchise moving to Seattle or Vegas in the near-term to medium-term is pure B.S. Ignore the noise.
- Bolmaro almost certainly coming over.

Thanks, Q! All of this is good news, except the aggressive pursuit of Simmons. I know I'm probably alone on this board in not wanting to pursue Simmons. But in my view, we'd have to give up way too much to get a guy who can't stretch the defense or hit free throws and who doesn't provide rim-protection, strong interior defense or mental toughness. Moreover, his ability to be effective on the offensive end requires him to have the ball in his hands, which won't fit well with a team that already has three players who need the ball in their hands - KAT, Ant and presumably DLO since it doesn't look like Rosas will include DLO in a Simmons deal. John Collins, Myles Turner and Rashaun Holmes would all be better fits than Simmons and cost less to acquire.

To be fair... Ben Simmons's career USG rate is 21.5%... it's never been above 22.3%.

Conversely... here is the USG rate for Wolves players last season:

Towns - 29.1%
Russell - 29.1%
Edwards - 27.0%
Beasley - 24.0%
Reid - 22.5%
Nowell - 21.4%

Doesn't that indicate that he doesn't need the ball in his hands at all times to be a positive contributor?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think the Jon K visit on Dan Barreiro show has come up in other threads. I never listen to sports or talk radio, but I did dial this convo up on-demand. Here is a quick summary:

- Ant and Naz are fine - minor injuries
- Wolves aggressive in pursuing Simmons, but a lot would have to go right for it to happen...likely a 3-team deal.
- DLO still a key piece to Rosas, so likely someone he is not willing to part with to get Simmons.
- Franchise moving to Seattle or Vegas in the near-term to medium-term is pure B.S. Ignore the noise.
- Bolmaro almost certainly coming over.

Thanks, Q! All of this is good news, except the aggressive pursuit of Simmons. I know I'm probably alone on this board in not wanting to pursue Simmons. But in my view, we'd have to give up way too much to get a guy who can't stretch the defense or hit free throws and who doesn't provide rim-protection, strong interior defense or mental toughness. Moreover, his ability to be effective on the offensive end requires him to have the ball in his hands, which won't fit well with a team that already has three players who need the ball in their hands - KAT, Ant and presumably DLO since it doesn't look like Rosas will include DLO in a Simmons deal. John Collins, Myles Turner and Rashaun Holmes would all be better fits than Simmons and cost less to acquire.

To be fair... Ben Simmons's career USG rate is 21.5%... it's never been above 22.3%.

Conversely... here is the USG rate for Wolves players last season:

Towns - 29.1%
Russell - 29.1%
Edwards - 27.0%
Beasley - 24.0%
Reid - 22.5%
Nowell - 21.4%

Doesn't that indicate that he doesn't need the ball in his hands at all times to be a positive contributor?

Usage only measures the amount of possessions used. Possessions include shot attempts, free throw attempts, and turnovers. Simmons leads the Sixers in overall time of possession. So he actually does need the ball in his hands (or he needs to be a screener) to minimize the negative impact of his unwillingness/inability to shoot from beyond 10 feet. This is why he's always been paired with a non ball-handling shooting guard like JJ Redick or Seth Curry. Those guys do their best work off the ball running off screens and spotting up for jumpers. That's certainly not Ant, who will increasingly be our version of Donovan Mitchell or James Harden.

I'm not necessarily against bringing Simmons on board, but there are legitimate questions on his fit and impact on the rest of the roster.

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I think the Jon K visit on Dan Barreiro show has come up in other threads. I never listen to sports or talk radio, but I did dial this convo up on-demand. Here is a quick summary:

- Ant and Naz are fine - minor injuries
- Wolves aggressive in pursuing Simmons, but a lot would have to go right for it to happen...likely a 3-team deal.
- DLO still a key piece to Rosas, so likely someone he is not willing to part with to get Simmons.
- Franchise moving to Seattle or Vegas in the near-term to medium-term is pure B.S. Ignore the noise.
- Bolmaro almost certainly coming over.

Thanks, Q! All of this is good news, except the aggressive pursuit of Simmons. I know I'm probably alone on this board in not wanting to pursue Simmons. But in my view, we'd have to give up way too much to get a guy who can't stretch the defense or hit free throws and who doesn't provide rim-protection, strong interior defense or mental toughness. Moreover, his ability to be effective on the offensive end requires him to have the ball in his hands, which won't fit well with a team that already has three players who need the ball in their hands - KAT, Ant and presumably DLO since it doesn't look like Rosas will include DLO in a Simmons deal. John Collins, Myles Turner and Rashaun Holmes would all be better fits than Simmons and cost less to acquire.

To be fair... Ben Simmons's career USG rate is 21.5%... it's never been above 22.3%.

Conversely... here is the USG rate for Wolves players last season:

Towns - 29.1%
Russell - 29.1%
Edwards - 27.0%
Beasley - 24.0%
Reid - 22.5%
Nowell - 21.4%

Doesn't that indicate that he doesn't need the ball in his hands at all times to be a positive contributor?

Usage only measures the amount of possessions used. Possessions include shot attempts, free throw attempts, and turnovers. Simmons leads the Sixers in overall time of possession. So he actually does need the ball in his hands (or he needs to be a screener) to minimize the negative impact of his unwillingness/inability to shoot from beyond 10 feet. This is why he's always been paired with a non ball-handling shooting guard like JJ Redick or Seth Curry. Those guys do their best work off the ball running off screens and spotting up for jumpers. That's certainly not Ant, who will increasingly be our version of Donovan Mitchell or James Harden.

I'm not necessarily against bringing Simmons on board, but there are legitimate questions on his fit and impact on the rest of the roster.

Yeah. That's true.

Part of it might be just being the guy bringing the ball up most of the time. Even then though... you're right that he has the ball a lot, for almost 6 seconds per possession, even though he dribbles a lot less than others. Part of that is probably because he gets more elbow and post touches.

I don't think anybody knows if the guy will work here or not. But a couple of things I go back to...

- Philly's "success" with Simmons as the #2 or #3 guy. How much credit does he get for that?
- The current ceiling of the Wolves with Russell and Beasley. Remember when Russell was the anti-christ around here? Did that fix itself? If we see them as cornerstones of a 50-win team... cool. Pass on Simmons. If we think those two gunners are going to cause more harm than good taking shots from Towns and Edwards... or can't play good enough d to get wins... move them.
- Many successful teams have a guy who can't shoot all that great from distance. Most are centers, but perhaps Towns' shooting from that spot gives the Wolves a unique, workable spin.

Bottom line... I think bringing in a versatile talented defensive-first as the THIRD option raises the Wolves floor. I think it might put them in the playoffs. I'm not worried about playoff performance at this point. Get there. Take your lumps. Learn from it. Today's NBA is too transient to be thinking too far beyond that.

Interesting discussion here about usage...I'm not sure how to interpret the numbers. I agree with the premise that with two young potential 25 point scorers in KAT and Ant, we don't want a PG dominating the ball too much. But then again, who spends more time dribbling, Simmons or DLO? I don't have the answer, but my eye test tells me that Russell is far more ball-dominant than Simmons...and that seems to be exactly what we don't need with two stars like KAT and Ant.

FNG wrote:Interesting discussion here about usage...I'm not sure how to interpret the numbers. I agree with the premise that with two young potential 25 point scorers in KAT and Ant, we don't want a PG dominating the ball too much. But then again, who spends more time dribbling, Simmons or DLO? I don't have the answer, but my eye test tells me that Russell is far more ball-dominant than Simmons...and that seems to be exactly what we don't need with two stars like KAT and Ant.

That may be the case, but we know that DLO has the shooting chops to be effective off the ball. A defender can't leave him alone. So a coach can take the ball out of DLOs hands (whether he likes it or not) and know that DLO is still creating space on the floor. We saw how the Rubio/DLO combo later in the season seemed to gel a bit better than it did earlier. Rubio is a less extreme version of Simmons. Also, DLO seems a little less "difficult" as a personality versus other players. He may be soft and lazy defensively, but he doesn't seem all too dogmatic about being the lead guard all the time.

Q12543 wrote:

FNG wrote:Interesting discussion here about usage...I'm not sure how to interpret the numbers. I agree with the premise that with two young potential 25 point scorers in KAT and Ant, we don't want a PG dominating the ball too much. But then again, who spends more time dribbling, Simmons or DLO? I don't have the answer, but my eye test tells me that Russell is far more ball-dominant than Simmons...and that seems to be exactly what we don't need with two stars like KAT and Ant.

That may be the case, but we know that DLO has the shooting chops to be effective off the ball. A defender can't leave him alone. So a coach can take the ball out of DLOs hands (whether he likes it or not) and know that DLO is still creating space on the floor. We saw how the Rubio/DLO combo later in the season seemed to gel a bit better than it did earlier. Rubio is a less extreme version of Simmons. Also, DLO seems a little less "difficult" as a personality versus other players. He may be soft and lazy defensively, but he doesn't seem all too dogmatic about being the lead guard all the time.

Yep. That was my thinking. DLO can be effective on the offensive end playing off the ball because of his perimeter shooting. Playing off the ball simply isn't Ben's strength. He's an terrific playmaker and to take advantage of that aspect of the game, he needs to be the lead guard as he's been in Philly. If he's not the lead guard running the offense, his value on the offensive end diminishes substantially and he becomes primarily a one-way player. The fact that he's a great defensive player who can score effectively in the paint makes him a highly valuable NBA player. So I'm not opposed to pursuing him. I just don't think he's worth what we'd likely have to give up to get him. If we were a team filled with great perimeter shooters I might feel differently. But we'd likely have to give up one of our only two elite perimeter shooters (Beasley) to get Simmons.

Ant is going to be this teams main slasher/scorer. As you noted, if he pans out as I believe he will, then he's our Donovan Mitchell. That means he'll be our main ball-handler who scores and distributes. At the same time, Finch was attempting to run the offense more through KAT to take advantage of his passing and offensive versatility. Meanwhile DLO is a passer and scorer. He can play off the ball when the offense runs though Edwards or KAT but also function as the leads guard with his passing. I just don't see Simmons as a good fit given the players who would likely be here after dealing Beasley and other assets to get him.