Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:Is anyone going to give a shit about his past if he's anything close to an All-Star level player? Seriously.

I don't see any Phoenix Suns fans up in arms over DeAndre Ayton taking $100,000 from the University of Arizona. Did anyone care about Dennis Smith receiving $43,500 at North Carolina State? Isaiah Whitehead received $26,136 as a freshman at Seton Hall. Tim Quarterman got more than $16,000 while he was at LSU.

Shit, the entire Fab Five team at Michigan got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Marcus Camby made $40,000 at Massachusetts.

None of those instances had any play in how those guys turned out in the NBA. So, rather than focus entirely on a debatable mistake, I'll reiterate that James Wiseman is the best basketball player in this draft class. He turns 19 in March. That's all I've got, gentlemen.

Of course not. This stuff is rampant.

My beef was just in how you presented it. He was being shady. Hardaway was being shady. So I don't know why being asked to recoup the money from their shady dealings was out of line from the NCAA.

And let's not forget, the only reason he got to play high school ball was from favorable (temporary) rulings that were later overturned. In the end, MOST of these top prospects are getting something... as are many of their hangers-on. It's been going on in different ways for decades.


[Note: Sorta related... I'm not in favor of paying student athletes. But I'm also a staunch disbeliever in the NCAA's constant money grab. So without a dog in the fight... I choose apathy.]

Requiring a student athlete to donate $11,500 to charity to makeup for a booster donation is unheard of in college sports and it's the dumbest punishment on the student athlete side handed out by the NCAA in recent memory. The punishment was unprecedented and that's why that was out of line. Suspend him for games or even the whole season, but to essentially charge him money to be able to play basketball is such a terrible punishment. Did you have that kind of money in college cause I sure as hell didn't? I don't like any of the amount these guys get paid under the table, the amount the NCAA makes off mostly unpaid workers and then their audacity to slap the wrist of people who get paid what they're worth on the market of sports, but at the end of the day in this case a kid was told to come up with 12k with no help to be able to play basketball and that just has no place as a punishment in college sports.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:Is anyone going to give a shit about his past if he's anything close to an All-Star level player? Seriously.

I don't see any Phoenix Suns fans up in arms over DeAndre Ayton taking $100,000 from the University of Arizona. Did anyone care about Dennis Smith receiving $43,500 at North Carolina State? Isaiah Whitehead received $26,136 as a freshman at Seton Hall. Tim Quarterman got more than $16,000 while he was at LSU.

Shit, the entire Fab Five team at Michigan got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Marcus Camby made $40,000 at Massachusetts.

None of those instances had any play in how those guys turned out in the NBA. So, rather than focus entirely on a debatable mistake, I'll reiterate that James Wiseman is the best basketball player in this draft class. He turns 19 in March. That's all I've got, gentlemen.

Of course not. This stuff is rampant.

My beef was just in how you presented it. He was being shady. Hardaway was being shady. So I don't know why being asked to recoup the money from their shady dealings was out of line from the NCAA.

And let's not forget, the only reason he got to play high school ball was from favorable (temporary) rulings that were later overturned. In the end, MOST of these top prospects are getting something... as are many of their hangers-on. It's been going on in different ways for decades.


[Note: Sorta related... I'm not in favor of paying student athletes. But I'm also a staunch disbeliever in the NCAA's constant money grab. So without a dog in the fight... I choose apathy.]

Requiring a student athlete to donate $11,500 to charity to makeup for a booster donation is unheard of in college sports and it's the dumbest punishment on the student athlete side handed out by the NCAA in recent memory. The punishment was unprecedented and that's why that was out of line. Suspend him for games or even the whole season, but to essentially charge him money to be able to play basketball is such a terrible punishment. Did you have that kind of money in college cause I sure as hell didn't? I don't like any of the amount these guys get paid under the table, the amount the NCAA makes off mostly unpaid workers and then their audacity to slap the wrist of people who get paid what they're worth on the market of sports, but at the end of the day in this case a kid was told to come up with 12k with no help to be able to play basketball and that just has no place as a punishment in college sports.

Ok. I think I'm following you better now.

So we both agree that Wiseman was in the wrong and that a suspension was probably in order. But you're saying that basing the suspension on repaying the $11,500 to a charity is ridiculous? I can agree with that...

...alrighty then.

There is no legitimate basis for questioning Wiseman's character. I know we have a very limited sample size of college games from him, but his numbers in those games were elite. I recall that KG had no college games under his belt when the Wolves drafted him.

Cam's already stated my view of his talent. I'd say he's the only player in this draft who stands out as having superstar potential based on his size and athleticism. I haven't seen any serious questions about his passion for basketball or his motor. In my view, any team that passes him over in the draft will regret it. The Wolves should grab him if he's available and not look back.

lipoli390 wrote:There is no legitimate basis for questioning Wiseman's character. I know we have a very limited sample size of college games from him, but his numbers in those games were elite. I recall that KG had no college games under his belt when the Wolves drafted him.

Cam's already stated my view of his talent. I'd say he's the only player in this draft who stands out as having superstar potential based on his size and athleticism. I haven't seen any serious questions about his passion for basketball or his motor. In my view, any team that passes him over in the draft will regret it. The Wolves should grab him if he's available and not look back.

Aren't passion, motor, and character different things? I think there's legitimacy in wondering if someone embroiled in a controversy who sued the NCAA has character issues. It may be unfounded based on the truth of the situation, but its certainly not illegitimate. I hope he does great and proves to be an upstanding citizen, but theres enough reasons for legitimate skepticism about his character.

If the Wolves pass on Wiseman for any reason that we currently know of it will be a big mistake.

If it's not us who get him, then anyone but the Warriors please.

Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond/Wiseman is frightening. Tough to beat that team big, small, or in any facet. I cannot believe they sit with the worst record and that it's not constantly talked about.

TheFuture wrote:If the Wolves pass on Wiseman for any reason that we currently know of it will be a big mistake.

If it's not us who get him, then anyone but the Warriors please.

Steph/Klay/Wiggins/Draymond/Wiseman is frightening. Tough to beat that team big, small, or in any facet. I cannot believe they sit with the worst record and that it's not constantly talked about.

They've had 62 million dollars sitting on the bench for most of the year and basically have a G League team out there every night outside of 3 players (Draymond, Looney and Wiggins). There's just not much to talk about because they aren't actively tanking, they just have had almost half of their tam cap space allocated on guys not available to play most of the year.

Regarding the warriors. I may be in the minority, but I don't see them returning to their contender status immediately next season. Yes, they are still going to be a top team, but a lot of teams has gotten much better and Draymond has regressed the last two seasons. He was a legit dpoy and all star during their peak but he has been bad this season and even last season with Durant still there. They wont be building another dynasty soon. It s a much tougher road for them.

worldK wrote:Regarding the warriors. I may be in the minority, but I don't see them returning to their contender status immediately next season. Yes, they are still going to be a top team, but a lot of teams has gotten much better and Draymond has regressed the last two seasons. He was a legit dpoy and all star during their peak but he has been bad this season and even last season with Durant still there. They wont be building another dynasty soon. It s a much tougher road for them.

I'll take it a step further. I don't think they're a playoff team next season.

As you already mentioned, Draymond Green is washed. Really. If you haven't looked at his numbers this year, I implore you to do so. He's much closer to being a bench player than he is that All-Star, Defensive Player of the Year version he was a handful of years ago.

Kevin Durant isn't walking through that door any time soon. Neither is Giannis Antetokounmpo despite some media outlets floating that idea around.

Stephen Curry got bailed out by his injury woes this year -- yes, bailed out. He's a super-talent that needs all the right pieces around him in order to have team success. We were seeing that to start this season as his individual play was suffering and his weaknesses were elevated.

Klay Thompson will likely still be Klay Thompson even after injury, but is he good enough to lift the rest of what projects to be a poor overall roster? I doubt it.

And while the Warriors will have a high draft pick this summer, they don't have the cap flexibility to make many moves to improve the roster. What they have is more or less what they'll have to work with in 2020-21.

I think they're somewhere around 35-42 wins next season and I don't think that does it in the Western Conference.

Is Green regressing or is he half assign it out there? I haven't watched the Warriors outside of the Wolves game so I don't know.

If those 3 are healthy next season then I think they are a contender. If the injuries are taking a toll and they are getting higher mileage on the body. I see them as a 3-4 seed IF healthy. Their riser is very weak outside of the top 3 so it's hard to say they will get back to what they were. They had a lot of help from other guys like Iggy or Barnes in the past. Just even other vets too that they no longer have.