Minnesota Sports Forum

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

I quoted BPM as one of the stats I put together showing our top 5 guys. Since it is reliant strictly on the box score, it has the usual problems of measuring defense. Since LaVine and Wiggins don't get many defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks, they tend to do poorly on the D-BPM portion of this metric.

According to BPM, Klay is the 9th best player on the Warriors. Anyone who watches that guy play defense knows that he is a master at moving his feet, holding his ground, and contesting shots. He's probably their second best defender after Green. But....he's a -2.1 in D-BPM because he doesn't get a ton of boards, blocks and steals. That in turn weighs down his overall BPM score.

Now here is the problem....Neither Andrew Wiggins or LaVine are Klay Thompson on defense. But...I am hoping that at least Wiggins eventually becomes a much more skilled positional one-on-one defender that doesn't light up the box score, but still gets a lot of stops using his quick feet, length, and smarts. We've seen him do this in spurts, but he tends to get screened off too easily and falls asleep at times when he is defending off the ball.

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

Like I said, not hard to find a metric to support whatever negative narrative you want to run with. Let me ask you this: Who are you trying to convince? The people who read your posts or yourself?

Q12543 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

I quoted BPM as one of the stats I put together showing our top 5 guys. Since it is reliant strictly on the box score, it has the usual problems of measuring defense. Since LaVine and Wiggins don't get many defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks, they tend to do poorly on the D-BPM portion of this metric.

According to BPM, Klay is the 9th best player on the Warriors. Anyone who watches that guy play defense knows that he is a master at moving his feet, holding his ground, and contesting shots. He's probably their second best defender after Green. But....he's a -2.1 in D-BPM because he doesn't get a ton of boards, blocks and steals. That in turn weighs down his overall BPM score.

Now here is the problem....Neither Andrew Wiggins or LaVine are Klay Thompson on defense. But...I am hoping that at least Wiggins eventually becomes a much more skilled positional one-on-one defender that doesn't light up the box score, but still gets a lot of stops using his quick feet, length, and smarts. We've seen him do this in spurts, but he tends to get screened off too easily and falls asleep at times when he is defending off the ball.

Good points.

I think Durant could be in that conversation as being the 2nd best defensive player to Green. You are right it's probably Klay but I think Durant has really progressed in that area and it's probably not brought up enough what impact he has on that end for the Warriors as a team especially with his ability to play and guard multiple positions with his length.

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

I quoted BPM as one of the stats I put together showing our top 5 guys. Since it is reliant strictly on the box score, it has the usual problems of measuring defense. Since LaVine and Wiggins don't get many defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks, they tend to do poorly on the D-BPM portion of this metric.

According to BPM, Klay is the 9th best player on the Warriors. Anyone who watches that guy play defense knows that he is a master at moving his feet, holding his ground, and contesting shots. He's probably their second best defender after Green. But....he's a -2.1 in D-BPM because he doesn't get a ton of boards, blocks and steals. That in turn weighs down his overall BPM score.

Now here is the problem....Neither Andrew Wiggins or LaVine are Klay Thompson on defense. But...I am hoping that at least Wiggins eventually becomes a much more skilled positional one-on-one defender that doesn't light up the box score, but still gets a lot of stops using his quick feet, length, and smarts. We've seen him do this in spurts, but he tends to get screened off too easily and falls asleep at times when he is defending off the ball.

Good points.

I think Durant could be in that conversation as being the 2nd best defensive player to Green. You are right it's probably Klay but I think Durant has really progressed in that area and it's probably not brought up enough what impact he has on that end for the Warriors as a team especially with his ability to play and guard multiple positions with his length.

Monster, it's definitely Klay. If not for Klay and the intensity he brings to defense, Kyrie would drop 50 on the Warriors. The only other guy who could contain him is Green.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

I quoted BPM as one of the stats I put together showing our top 5 guys. Since it is reliant strictly on the box score, it has the usual problems of measuring defense. Since LaVine and Wiggins don't get many defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks, they tend to do poorly on the D-BPM portion of this metric.

According to BPM, Klay is the 9th best player on the Warriors. Anyone who watches that guy play defense knows that he is a master at moving his feet, holding his ground, and contesting shots. He's probably their second best defender after Green. But....he's a -2.1 in D-BPM because he doesn't get a ton of boards, blocks and steals. That in turn weighs down his overall BPM score.

Now here is the problem....Neither Andrew Wiggins or LaVine are Klay Thompson on defense. But...I am hoping that at least Wiggins eventually becomes a much more skilled positional one-on-one defender that doesn't light up the box score, but still gets a lot of stops using his quick feet, length, and smarts. We've seen him do this in spurts, but he tends to get screened off too easily and falls asleep at times when he is defending off the ball.

Good points.

I think Durant could be in that conversation as being the 2nd best defensive player to Green. You are right it's probably Klay but I think Durant has really progressed in that area and it's probably not brought up enough what impact he has on that end for the Warriors as a team especially with his ability to play and guard multiple positions with his length.

Monster, it's definitely Klay. If not for Klay and the intensity he brings to defense, Kyrie would drop 50 on the Warriors. The only other guy who could contain him is Green.

You are right. I guess I'm just saying Durant is a good defender and it's not brought up enough. Remember when Klay was drafted how many people thought they had reached for him? I didn't know much about him at the time but I thought that was dumb to say that at the time but it looks more silly every year. Klay is one of the best 2 way wings in the league. At his worst he is a 3 and D guy and at his best he can play elite D AND drop 30 on you...in a quarter.

Waiting for a bunch of 22 year olds to take the reigns and become winners seems like a really bad strategy when we have assets and cap space to just not do that. It's worked once for OKC and that's pretty much it. The Warriors had Bogut and Lee as good veteran players around Steph, Klay, Draymond and Barnes. The Spurs brought Kawhi along slowly with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The Grizzlies added Zach Randolph to a young core of Conley and Gasol to finally push them to the playoffs. These teams had quality veterans leading them while the young guys developed. I just don't understand leaving it all on 3 guys when we have the ability to help them and helping the young core has proved so valuable for other franchises in our conference to becoming relevant and staying relevant for basically the last 5-7 years. The funny part is the one team who didn't do the money right was the team building like you guys suggest. Saving it all for 3 guys, panicking when it isn't enough and wasting more money on non-relevant pieces backing you into a corner. The Grizzlies and Warriors managed to add that help and keep their young core together and never ran into money issues because they managed it right. While our ceiling does hinge on the success of Towns, Wiggins and Lavine, our floor right now is bottomed out because we aren't giving them help. Raise the floor with help and then hope they hit that ceiling to put us over the top. The money can always be managed down the line to make it work.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

Like I said, not hard to find a metric to support whatever negative narrative you want to run with. Let me ask you this: Who are you trying to convince? The people who read your posts or yourself?

Cool, lets be fair. I am not asserting the narrative on this board. I'm countering or responding to the narrative that is essentially "Ricky is the problem", "Can we win with Rick" blah, blah, blah. Its getting ridiculous that every third post on this board seems to bash Ricky. I'm saying that the narrative that Ricky is the problem is BS.

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

Like I said, not hard to find a metric to support whatever negative narrative you want to run with. Let me ask you this: Who are you trying to convince? The people who read your posts or yourself?

Cool, lets be fair. I am not asserting the narrative on this board. I'm countering or responding to the narrative that is essentially "Ricky is the problem", "Can we win with Rick" blah, blah, blah. Its getting ridiculous that every third post on this board seems to bash Ricky. I'm saying that the narrative that Ricky is the problem is BS.

You just made a post questioning if Lavine and Wiggins are the problem on the team more than Rubio. You also think Ricky is better than Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic etc. Don't think for a second that you haven't been presenting a super pro Rubio narrative on a borderline delusional scale on this board for years.

Before you inevitably try to defend yourself by claiming I said Thibs should should be coach of they year for the 10th time, that was a joke. You're the only one not to get that as everyone else here knows I am a big supporter of Tom and was just joking around which I thought was incredibly obvious.

There is a big difference between being high on a coach even after the subpar record first year because he's actually done it at a high level in Chicago and a PG who has never even made the playoffs and yet ranking him higher than all star and all NBA Point guards.

BloopOracle wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

Like I said, not hard to find a metric to support whatever negative narrative you want to run with. Let me ask you this: Who are you trying to convince? The people who read your posts or yourself?

Cool, lets be fair. I am not asserting the narrative on this board. I'm countering or responding to the narrative that is essentially "Ricky is the problem", "Can we win with Rick" blah, blah, blah. Its getting ridiculous that every third post on this board seems to bash Ricky. I'm saying that the narrative that Ricky is the problem is BS.

You just made a post questioning if Lavine and Wiggins are the problem on the team more than Rubio. You also think Ricky is better than Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic etc. Don't think for a second that you haven't been presenting a super pro Rubio narrative on a borderline delusional scale on this board for years.

Before you inevitably try to defend yourself by claiming I said Thibs should should be coach of they year for the 10th time, that was a joke. You're the only one not to get that as everyone else here knows I am a big supporter of Tom and was just joking around which I thought was incredibly obvious.

There is a big difference between being high on a coach even after the subpar record first year because he's actually done it at a high level in Chicago and a PG who has never even made the playoffs and yet ranking him higher than all star and all NBA Point guards.

So on court impact doesn't matter? Isn't that why the game is played? Delusional? That's funny!!! If thinking Ricky is a very good point guard makes me delusional in your mind, so be it. I could really care less what you think. You started the Thibs coach of the year thread and pumped up Thibs like no other despite his poor season and you were quite serious. Chicago had some very good players (Rose before his injury, Noah, Deng, later Butler and a good bench and played in East), maybe Thibs got too much credit since he's turning 60 and he hasn't won anywhere else as a head coach.

TeamRicky wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:Advanced Stat that nobody seems to pay attention to is BPM (Box Score Plus Minus):

Averaging the BPM for their first three years:

Wiggins: BPM is -2.4
Zach: BPM is -2.0
Ricky: BPM is 1.5

Ricky has a positive BPM in every year (including each of his first three years) except for his 22 game injury shortened year. Zach and Wiggins have a BPM that is negative every year. And posters are wondering if we can win with Ricky as our point guard. This is Bizarre. We should be asking if we can win with Wiggins and Zach.

Like I said, not hard to find a metric to support whatever negative narrative you want to run with. Let me ask you this: Who are you trying to convince? The people who read your posts or yourself?

Cool, lets be fair. I am not asserting the narrative on this board. I'm countering or responding to the narrative that is essentially "Ricky is the problem", "Can we win with Rick" blah, blah, blah. Its getting ridiculous that every third post on this board seems to bash Ricky. I'm saying that the narrative that Ricky is the problem is BS.

You just made a post questioning if Lavine and Wiggins are the problem on the team more than Rubio. You also think Ricky is better than Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic etc. Don't think for a second that you haven't been presenting a super pro Rubio narrative on a borderline delusional scale on this board for years.

Before you inevitably try to defend yourself by claiming I said Thibs should should be coach of they year for the 10th time, that was a joke. You're the only one not to get that as everyone else here knows I am a big supporter of Tom and was just joking around which I thought was incredibly obvious.

There is a big difference between being high on a coach even after the subpar record first year because he's actually done it at a high level in Chicago and a PG who has never even made the playoffs and yet ranking him higher than all star and all NBA Point guards.

So on court impact doesn't matter? Isn't that why the game is played? Delusional? That's funny!!! If thinking Ricky is a very good point guard makes me delusional in your mind, so be it. I could really care less what you think. You started the Thibs coach of the year thread and pumped up Thibs like no other despite his poor season and you were quite serious. Chicago had some very good players (Rose before his injury, Noah, Deng, later Butler and a good bench and played in East), maybe Thibs got too much credit since he's turning 60 and he hasn't won anywhere else as a head coach.

- Why didn't you defend your laughable comparisons about Ricky being better than all NBA and All Star point guards? I'm not calling you out for thinking Ricky is a good point guard I'm calling you out for your delusion on where he ranks amongst his peers.

- If you still believe at this point I was serious about Thibs being coach of the year you are a complete moron, my guess is that you're just using it because you don't really have anything to fire back with on the level of your Ricky fantasies so you have to cling to anything.

- Thank you for naming many of the players that Tom developed! That was really nice of you Ricky.

- He hasn't been a head coach anywhere else besides us and the Bulls, are you that much of a casual fan that you didn't realize that?