Minnesota Sports Forum

Okogie is a 20-year old rookie. I really have a hard time understanding the few people who doubt his potential.

It will be interesting to see what Ryan does if Tyus and RoCo come back after the break. The 3 PGs have been good and will likely continue (Teague, Rose and Tyus). Dario as a starter will likely continue. Deng and Okogie have absolutely earned regular minutes, along with Taj. So just how does that mesh with Wiggins back, and what does that mean for Dieng?

60WinTim wrote:Okogie is a 20-year old rookie. I really have a hard time understanding the few people who doubt his potential.

It will be interesting to see what Ryan does if Tyus and RoCo come back after the break. The 3 PGs have been good and will likely continue (Teague, Rose and Tyus). Dario as a starter will likely continue. Deng and Okogie have absolutely earned regular minutes, along with Taj. So just how does that mesh with Wiggins back, and what does that mean for Dieng?

Tim, I think almost all of us here acknowledge Josh's athleticism and defensive flash. But realistically we also have to acknowledge his horrible shooting percentages. His ceiling will be determined by whether or not he can dramatically improve on his 36/26/74 shooting...close to the worst wing numbers in the league. Maybe he can turn things around, but I still see his most likely projection as Stanley Johnson...a very good defender who has never developed a reliable NBA shot. I was patient with Johnson as he shot 37/31/78 his rookie year (better than Josh in identical MPG) while displaying great defensive promise. But while his defense remains excellent in his 4th season, his shooting is almost exactly as bad as it was his rookie season. Like Josh his free throw success seems to indicate he can improve as a shooter, but he hasn't. And unfortunately another similarity as that when they miss a shot, they miss a shot badly. Johnson has managed to earn 22 MPG during his career because of his defense, and I expect Josh will carve out a similar career as a specialist. I hope I'm wrong and Josh becomes a shooter (Jim Pete thinks he might), but I think that hope may be as ill-fated as hoping that Rubio or Johnson figure it out...he just doesn't project as a shooter in my view.

That said, it will be interesting to see how Ryan handles his deep roster once RoCo and Tyus come back. I think Josh's minutes will in large part depend on whether Ryan thinks playoffs are a possibility. If he does, I think most of the wing minutes will go to RoCo, Wig, Rose and the resurgent Deng, and Josh will get minutes when there are injuries or Ryan needs his energy. I know people here want more minutes than that for Josh, but I think those four wings give us our best chance right now. But if we fall out of the race, I would love to see Josh get Deng's minutes and some of Wig's.

Hustle, energy and tenacity is nice.

But it doesn't translate automatically into a guy who's guaranteed to become a better shooter. As noted, Okogie brings great energy, but it's his shooting that will determine if he becomes a viable NBA starter.

We expect guys to improve... especially if they play with energy and passion for our favorite team. But we don't have to mention all the other guys with similar rookie seasons to Okogie who didn't make it to prove this point. We've all seen it.

As of right now... Okogie is fun to watch. And hopefully he improves. Whether he does or not enough to be a starter, good starter or something more... is anybody's guess.

It's a complete crapshoot.

Really fun game last night...I'm out of town for a month, so I was happy to see the game was on ESPN. I agree with the comments here...all of our starters were terrific, and Rose and Gibson provided a lot of good minutes off the bench. Saunders had one of his best games to date, and the differences between him and Thibs were on display last night. Many of us railed on Thibs' inflexibility and unwillingness to try different lineups when certain players were having off nights (not always, but too often in my opinion). Ryan on the other hand seems to recognize early when a player is "off" and finds a replacement. Last night it was Gorgui...I'm not a G detractor, but his 2 minutes last night were two more than he deserved. Ryan also saw that Tolliver and Bayless weren't going to give him much and limited their minutes. I also like how Ryan spreads the minutes around to keep his players fresh...a huge contrast to Thibs. Our guys looked fresher than theirs in the 4t quarter, and it was reflected in the results.

Deng and Okogie were outstanding on Harden all night. It's not often you can say this when a guy puts up 42, but this is James Harden. And he did it while missing 19 shots and turning the ball over 6 times...not very efficient. And both largely stayed disciplined on defense. Harden had only 4 free throw attempts last night...in his last 33 games he has had that few only once, and that was a night his minutes were limited by fouls. Yes, the referees actually helped us last night, but a lot of it was just excellent footwork without much reaching by Lu and Josh.

But as others have said, we don't win this game without Teague. He was aggressive in getting to the basket, and put up an outstanding stat line. I still don't love his defense and his tendency to over dribble, but last night's Jeff can start on my team any night.

I'm not ready to remove the interim label from Ryan yet, but his 8-9 record without RoCo (and most nights without most of his PGs) is nothing short of remarkable. I suspect many of us thought 17 games without RoCo would torpedo any slim playoff chances, but here we are still only 4 games out at the all-star game...and both RoCo and Tyus indicating they will be back soon. Plus two double digit wins with both starting wings out against Western teams ahead of us in the standings gives us a lot of momentum and positive feelings during the break.. I'm not off the Island yet, especially if our remaining injured guys both return immediately after the break. I can't wait to see what a mix and match coach like Saunders does with a healthy deep roster.

Johnson seems like a poor comparison, as players who stick in this league tend to see their shooting percentages go up, especially entering the league as a young 20 year old.

60WinTim wrote:Johnson seems like a poor comparison, as players who stick in this league tend to see their shooting percentages go up, especially entering the league as a young 20 year old.

Let's hope you're right, Tim, but typically Wolves players who begin their careers with us hoping they will improve their shooting seldom get better. Corey Brewer and Ricky Rubio come to mind, and off hand I'm having a hard time coming up with any Wolf where we said "See, I always knew he would become a good shooter". Especially guys who seem to be primarily defensive players early in their careers (Johnson, Smart, etc.) seldom seem to improve their shooting. Is there a good T-Wolf example of a horrendous rookie shooter who got much better?

I would highly recommend going on John Meyer twitter (@thedailywolf) and listen to Loul Deng post game interview. It is about 10 minutes. He talks about his role, thibs, ryan, next year, his time with the lakers.

Really excellent interview, I really want him back next year. Just a great bench glue guy and teammate

kekgeek1 wrote:I would highly recommend going on John Meyer twitter (@thedailywolf) and listen to Loul Deng post game interview. It is about 10 minutes. He talks about his role, thibs, ryan, next year, his time with the lakers.

Really excellent interview, I really want him back next year. Just a great bench glue guy and teammate

I'm going to check that out...always have thought Lu was a terrific guy. In fact (ridiculously small sample sized general comment alert) looking at our three African-born players, they all seem to be really good guys.

Just finished watching the game. Man that was fun. Okogie just ramped up some fans probably nationally and right on time for an all star weekend appearance.

Saric...that guy is good.

Jeff Teague. Hey this guy doesn't suck. Look at all the space he had to work with and also getting him favorable matchups. Teague can play maybe he isn't gonna have all that working for him like he did tonight be there was so much more room for him to do whatever. Towns screen game is like 1000x better than it was last year which is big.

Just a heck of a team win as a fan of a teams dn wanting to enjoy games his was excellent.

Edit:

LST mentioned it once but I thought the Wolves on the perimeter as defenders got the benefit of the doubt a lot. Only really egregious fouls on retests were called. At worst overall the Wolves felt like they got a fair shake. Feels we're playing against CP3 and Harden.

longstrangetrip wrote:

60WinTim wrote:Johnson seems like a poor comparison, as players who stick in this league tend to see their shooting percentages go up, especially entering the league as a young 20 year old.

Let's hope you're right, Tim, but typically Wolves players who begin their careers with us hoping they will improve their shooting seldom get better. Corey Brewer and Ricky Rubio come to mind, and off hand I'm having a hard time coming up with any Wolf where we said "See, I always knew he would become a good shooter". Especially guys who seem to be primarily defensive players early in their careers (Johnson, Smart, etc.) seldom seem to improve their shooting. Is there a good T-Wolf example of a horrendous rookie shooter who got much better?

Honestly I think Okogie has better ball handling and passing than Brewer and has a chance to be an elite defender. Brewer was elite at stealing the ball and playing his butt off. He at best above average defender though. If Brewer was a Covington or Andre Roberson type guy or even a notch down fr that he would be a legit starter somewhere and make at least twice what he was making his last multiyear contract even with his poor shooting.

Stanley Johnson in some ways is an exception to the rule innthat he never got much better and still sucks at shooting. Usually guys get at least some better. Regardless Okogie looks like he can be a legit NBA rotation player likely on a good team. That would be a win especially if the team can keep him on an appropriate contract after his rookie deal.