Minnesota Sports Forum

kekgeek1 wrote:I don't want hear about injuries either. We got a great contribution out of Bayless and Deng.

I agree that Bayless and Deng were terrific, but I can't comply with your request because missing RoCo destroys our defense and rebounding, and to a lesser extent, our offense. We are so lean at wing that having RoCo out forces Ryan to start Josh at the 2 and Wig at the 3, and that makes for a terrible rebounding starting unit. Plus despite great effort and athleticism, Josh is ineffective on defense...did anyone else notice that Derrick Freakin Rose was more effective against Beasley tonight than Josh? That's pretty telling to me. Also, Josh is a terrible rebounder (1 last night) and shooter (his absurdly low percentages keep getting worse...21% shooting the past 5 and 10% on threes!). We're essentially playing 4 on 5 when Josh is in because the opponent wants him to shoot (and miss) and he just doesn't provide enough in other area to make up for his nonexistent offense. His -10 in 21 minutes was actually better than I would have guessed. The guy just doesn't deserve NBA minutes yet.

Bayless was excellent last night, but he can't play the entire game and Ryan needs to limit Rose's minutes and play him at the 2. So like it our not, Teague and Tyus being out forces Ryan to play Isaiah Canaan at least a few minutes, and every minute he plays is a disaster. My God he is terrible.

Kek, I know you don't want to hear about injuries, but saying they're not a huge factor is tantamount to saying Okogie and Canaan don't hurt us. The best this team can hope to do is tread water until RoCo and one of our PGs returns.

Camden wrote:Removing the interim label from Saunders will be a mistake -- one that we will make fun of in the coming years. At least he seems more prone to hugs and kisses and keeps his volume level in check. I really like the guy, but he is outmatched and benefiting from the country club.

I don's think anyone here is ready to remove that interim label...the jury is still way out. Most of us here like what they are seeing so far. Didn't like the final play call last night, but overall the kid is keeping us in the hunt while missing his best defensive player and 3 PGs.

Just finished watching the replay of the game...disappointing finish to a terrific game. Denver is a really good team, and there's no shame in losing a nailbiter to them. Obviously Okogie and Canaan hurt us again, but we got mostly good performances from everyone else. Bayless was really good again, but I would have liked to see him get Wig involved more...Wig had a tremendous defensive game, but 10 points on only 10 shots is not what we need from him.

Can't see enough about KAT...I thought he outplayed the marvelous Jokic, and that's saying a lot. And if he had made just 2 of his uncharacteristic 4 free throw misses, we win this game. Taj's gritty smart defense against Jokic forced a 51% shooter into a 4-13 night. It was good to have Rose's 8 points and 5 assists off the bench, but his 3-point shot which was so hot early in the season is clearly broken.

I thoroughly enjoyed this game, as I do most Denver/Minnesota games...it was so much more entertaining than the Memphis win. Denver is so well coached and deep at the wings that they really don't seem to miss a beat with Murray and Harris out. Most NBA wings and PGs will make wide open shots (unless their name is Josh or Isaiah), and the combination of Malone's offense and Jokic's playmaking leads to a lot of open shots. I'm impressed that we were able to hang with a team currently in first place and with the best record (23-10) against the Western Conference.

Here are the last possession looks we have gotten with Ryan Saunders.

Wiggins dives have fines Okogie corner 3 (made)

Heavily contested step back 3 by rose

Contest mid range jumper by bayless

Contested mid range jumper by Bayless

Contested mid range jumper by wiggins

Heavily contested 3 by toliver

Contested corner 3 by Deng

1 for 7 in these situations. No sets for Kat and more than likely 5 of 7 shots have come by guys who won't be here next year.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:Removing the interim label from Saunders will be a mistake -- one that we will make fun of in the coming years. At least he seems more prone to hugs and kisses and keeps his volume level in check. I really like the guy, but he is outmatched and benefiting from the country club.

I don's think anyone here is ready to remove that interim label...the jury is still way out. Most of us here like what they are seeing so far. Didn't like the final play call last night, but overall the kid is keeping us in the hunt while missing his best defensive player and 3 PGs.

Just finished watching the replay of the game...disappointing finish to a terrific game. Denver is a really good team, and there's no shame in losing a nailbiter to them. Obviously Okogie and Canaan hurt us again, but we got mostly good performances from everyone else. Bayless was really good again, but I would have liked to see him get Wig involved more...Wig had a tremendous defensive game, but 10 points on only 10 shots is not what we need from him.

Can't see enough about KAT...I thought he outplayed the marvelous Jokic, and that's saying a lot. And if he had made just 2 of his uncharacteristic 4 free throw misses, we win this game. Taj's gritty smart defense against Jokic forced a 51% shooter into a 4-13 night. It was good to have Rose's 8 points and 5 assists off the bench, but his 3-point shot which was so hot early in the season is clearly broken.

I thoroughly enjoyed this game, as I do most Denver/Minnesota games...it was so much more entertaining than the Memphis win. Denver is so well coached and deep at the wings that they really don't seem to miss a beat with Murray and Harris out. Most NBA wings and PGs will make wide open shots (unless their name is Josh or Isaiah), and the combination of Malone's offense and Jokic's playmaking leads to a lot of open shots. I'm impressed that we were able to hang with a team currently in first place and with the best record (23-10) against the Western Conference.

That is a loser mentality. They are missing 2 starters also. Jokic held under 30 minutes because of foul trouble. The nuggets are on the road on the 2nd night of a back to back where they had to travel. We lost.

If this is a playoff team (what it isn't we need to win these games) we are 1 and 6 against playoff teams since Saunders took over.

kekgeek1 wrote:Here are the last possession looks we have gotten with Ryan Saunders.

Wiggins dives have fines Okogie corner 2 (made)

Heavily contested step back 3 by rose

Contest mid range jumper by bayless

Contested mid range jumper by Bayless

Contested mid range jumper by wiggins

Heavily contested 3 by toliver

Contested corner 3 by Deng

1 for 7 in these situations. No sets for Kat and more than likely 5 of 7 shots have come by guys who won't be here next year.

Ouch, not a good fact pattern and something to monitor. I also didn't like that neither Wig nor KAT had scored 10 minutes into the 4th quarter. Ryan has to find a way to keep them involved throughout the entire game.

longstrangetrip wrote:
Kek, I know you don't want to hear about injuries, but saying they're not a huge factor is tantamount to saying Okogie and Canaan don't hurt us. The best this team can hope to do is tread water until RoCo and one of our PGs returns.

Denver was also missing their starting backcourt Murray and Harris. So I think injury situation was quite even.

ItsJustSoSab wrote:

TheSP wrote:Wiggins dove onto the floor to secure the ball, that's a win in my book!

After losing the ball with his terrible handles! +5 for the dive -9 for the crime of having atrocious handles

You might want to go back and look at that play. It had nothing to do with Wig's handle, and everything to do with a blatant foul on Jokic not being called. That is the case on a high percentage of those so called TO's on Wig. The refs let teams continually grab his arms without making calls.

I don't understand not getting KAT the ball late. He is the one player on our team that is guaranteed to get a quality shot off.

As far as Ryan's interim tag goes, I think it is a foregone conclusion that he will be here next season considering they brought back Witmann as an advisor. What's the definition of insanity?

The CC is back together again!

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:Removing the interim label from Saunders will be a mistake -- one that we will make fun of in the coming years. At least he seems more prone to hugs and kisses and keeps his volume level in check. I really like the guy, but he is outmatched and benefiting from the country club.

I don's think anyone here is ready to remove that interim label...the jury is still way out. Most of us here like what they are seeing so far. Didn't like the final play call last night, but overall the kid is keeping us in the hunt while missing his best defensive player and 3 PGs.

Just finished watching the replay of the game...disappointing finish to a terrific game. Denver is a really good team, and there's no shame in losing a nailbiter to them. Obviously Okogie and Canaan hurt us again, but we got mostly good performances from everyone else. Bayless was really good again, but I would have liked to see him get Wig involved more...Wig had a tremendous defensive game, but 10 points on only 10 shots is not what we need from him.

Can't see enough about KAT...I thought he outplayed the marvelous Jokic, and that's saying a lot. And if he had made just 2 of his uncharacteristic 4 free throw misses, we win this game. Taj's gritty smart defense against Jokic forced a 51% shooter into a 4-13 night. It was good to have Rose's 8 points and 5 assists off the bench, but his 3-point shot which was so hot early in the season is clearly broken.

I thoroughly enjoyed this game, as I do most Denver/Minnesota games...it was so much more entertaining than the Memphis win. Denver is so well coached and deep at the wings that they really don't seem to miss a beat with Murray and Harris out. Most NBA wings and PGs will make wide open shots (unless their name is Josh or Isaiah), and the combination of Malone's offense and Jokic's playmaking leads to a lot of open shots. I'm impressed that we were able to hang with a team currently in first place and with the best record (23-10) against the Western Conference.

That is a loser mentality. They are missing 2 starters also. Jokic held under 30 minutes because of foul trouble. The nuggets are on the road on the 2nd night of a back to back where they had to travel. We lost.

If this is a playoff team (what it isn't we need to win these games) we are 1 and 6 against playoff teams since Saunders took over.

And Denver is now 8-1 on the back end of back to backs...they are so deep (nobody but Morris had to play more than 31 minutes tonight), BTBs don't seem to hurt them like other teams. They actually seem to play better.

I just don't see it as loser mentality to analyze why certain factors contribute to a loss...it's what boards like this are for, and how we get some good discussions here. Your premise seems to be that injuries should not be used as an excuse and that Denver came in as hampered by injuries as we did last night. Yes, Denver was missing two key wings, but as Q pointed out while watching the Houston game, they have more wing depth than any team in the league...they just don't experience a drop off like most teams do. Heck, they beat Houston by 14 the night before with those same guys out. On the other hand, RoCo being out forces Josh Okogie into the starting lineup, and he has responded with 20% shooting in the last five games (10% on threes) plus rookie defense. And having Tyus and Teague out forces Ryan to give at least some minutes to Isaiah Canaan, and he is simply not even close to being an NBA player at this time. Having to give Josh and Isaiah minutes are huge hurdles to overcome, and I'm impressed that this team almost did it.

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:
Kek, I know you don't want to hear about injuries, but saying they're not a huge factor is tantamount to saying Okogie and Canaan don't hurt us. The best this team can hope to do is tread water until RoCo and one of our PGs returns.

Denver was also missing their starting backcourt Murray and Harris. So I think injury situation was quite even.

Man, I just don't see it as even at all. Sure, they were missing two starters, but we were missing 2 starters and a valuable backup PG. More importantly, you have to look at who the injuries force into the game. Denver is so deep at wing, they don't seem to miss a beat when 2 wings go down...case in point, they beat a good Houston team by 14 the night before with Murray and Harris out. But the injuries are nothing short of tragic for the Wolves, because they are forced to play Okogie and Canaan...and nobody is going to win much with those two guys getting minutes.

I'm sure you watched the game last night, and saw how Okogie and Canaan played (and it was not any worse than they normally play). If you can make a case that the two Denver players getting more minutes because Harris and Murray were out were as ineffective as Okogie and Canaan, two guys who should not be seeing an NBA court except in mop up, I will concede your point.

sjm34 wrote:

ItsJustSoSab wrote:

TheSP wrote:Wiggins dove onto the floor to secure the ball, that's a win in my book!

After losing the ball with his terrible handles! +5 for the dive -9 for the crime of having atrocious handles

You might want to go back and look at that play. It had nothing to do with Wig's handle, and everything to do with a blatant foul on Jokic not being called. That is the case on a high percentage of those so called TO's on Wig. The refs let teams continually grab his arms without making calls.

I don't understand not getting KAT the ball late. He is the one player on our team that is guaranteed to get a quality shot off.

As far as Ryan's interim tag goes, I think it is a foregone conclusion that he will be here next season considering they brought back Witmann as an advisor. What's the definition of insanity?

The CC is back together again!

I went back and re-watched it. Wiggins got the ball from a pass, dribbled up to half court and lost the ball. He then proceeded to dive for the ball and a timeout was called. That has to do with his handles or at least the lack of awareness about the double team that came. Either way, praise is withheld. I'm confused about your no foul call on Jokic=Wiggins losing the ball