worldK wrote:Man, this has gome 4 pages. Just agree to disagree with abe. He is 70+ so he aint backing down. He made his points. Once someone starts throwing the age and his/her years into it, it is usually my cue to end the discussion.
Ive seen enough abe posts over the years that i can only think of jason as the guy who can make abe give up on arguing his points on a topic for a different reason.
Thibs aint going to be fired this season. Wig and kat are not the types who will demand their coach be fired and glen will not do it on his own unless his POBO tell him to fire the coach, in this case the POBO happens to be THE coach. So it is a topic to be settled in the future.
I never claimed I was 70+ years old for chrissakes.
Yikes.
[Note: I assume you're the one trolling now... or reading poorly?]
Misread it. My bad.
Still. Thibs is not going to be fired this season. Wig and towns may have all the clout as you said but it aint in them to demand a coach be fired. Glen is not going to do anything this season as he even said so. So this only getsettled once we have a new coach and we get to see how things play out with wig and towns in a year or two. You cant say your right at this moment nor can the other party. You made your points and juat let it play out.
I'm ok with disagreeing.
But as we've seen repeatedly in this thread... people don't even read what I'm writing or completely miss the point... know what I mean?
People think I'm "defending" Thibs. Or, that I'm claiming I'm right because I'm 70+ years old.
Ahem, ahem. Pretty silly stuff.
Coaches and FO guys can much more easily be changed. I am speculating on a few things sure about the toxic nature, but it comes from observation and results. Butler even said in an interview that he "initially" hated Thibs in Chicago. That interview was done right after he was traded to MN. Then Butler himself, which Thibs new well completely bailed on Thibs and caused a major distraction within the organization.
With the players regressing, players demanding to leave, the record being a failure. There is only one guy we can change that can easily change the culture and environment. That is Thibs.
Sure the players make a difference, but thats on Thibs too. He signed them, resigned them or traded for them. So if the most talented roster is a failure after three years of coaching "up". Thibs is the most to blame.
Hmmmm... seems to me that you're the one not ok with disagreeing...
Hmm.. i didnt pick sides. Its an issue that will never be resolved now. That is all im saying. It is what it is.
worldK wrote:Man, this has gome 4 pages. Just agree to disagree with abe. He is 70+ so he aint backing down. He made his points. Once someone starts throwing the age and his/her years into it, it is usually my cue to end the discussion.
Ive seen enough abe posts over the years that i can only think of jason as the guy who can make abe give up on arguing his points on a topic for a different reason.
Thibs aint going to be fired this season. Wig and kat are not the types who will demand their coach be fired and glen will not do it on his own unless his POBO tell him to fire the coach, in this case the POBO happens to be THE coach. So it is a topic to be settled in the future.
I never claimed I was 70+ years old for chrissakes.
Yikes.
[Note: I assume you're the one trolling now... or reading poorly?]
Misread it. My bad.
Still. Thibs is not going to be fired this season. Wig and towns may have all the clout as you said but it aint in them to demand a coach be fired. Glen is not going to do anything this season as he even said so. So this only getsettled once we have a new coach and we get to see how things play out with wig and towns in a year or two. You cant say your right at this moment nor can the other party. You made your points and juat let it play out.
I'm ok with disagreeing.
But as we've seen repeatedly in this thread... people don't even read what I'm writing or completely miss the point... know what I mean?
People think I'm "defending" Thibs. Or, that I'm claiming I'm right because I'm 70+ years old.
Ahem, ahem. Pretty silly stuff.
Coaches and FO guys can much more easily be changed. I am speculating on a few things sure about the toxic nature, but it comes from observation and results. Butler even said in an interview that he "initially" hated Thibs in Chicago. That interview was done right after he was traded to MN. Then Butler himself, which Thibs new well completely bailed on Thibs and caused a major distraction within the organization.
With the players regressing, players demanding to leave, the record being a failure. There is only one guy we can change that can easily change the culture and environment. That is Thibs.
Sure the players make a difference, but thats on Thibs too. He signed them, resigned them or traded for them. So if the most talented roster is a failure after three years of coaching "up". Thibs is the most to blame.
Hmmmm... seems to me that you're the one not ok with disagreeing...
Hmm.. i didnt pick sides. Its an issue that will never be resolved now. That is all im saying. It is what it is.
WolvesFan21 = worldK...?
I cant say i expected anything better from you. Sad
You need both, its on the players to work on the craft, but its up to the coaching staff to mold him.
There is a reason why good organizations consistently produce quality players and why poor organizations wait for a talent that even they cant destroy.
276th in PER
374th in win shares per 48
363rd in eFG%
335th in regular FG%
276th in free throw %
316th in net defensive rating
351st in net offensive rating
This guy is one of the worst players in basketball being given max contract dollars and starter minutes and he's a bum. The Wiggins apologists can say what they want to, but I've had enough. He's an anchor holding this team down both by his on-court play and his hit against the salary cap.
276th in PER
374th in win shares per 48
363rd in eFG%
335th in regular FG%
276th in free throw %
316th in net defensive rating
351st in net offensive rating
This guy is one of the worst players in basketball being given max contract dollars and starter minutes and he's a bum. The Wiggins apologists can say what they want to, but I've had enough. He's an anchor holding this team down both by his on-court play and his hit against the salary cap.
Difficult to argue against this...he's had a terrible season and embarrased himself last night at the line and in post-game comments. Do any other teams have a maxed out wing against whom other teams can employ a hack-a-Wig strategy? Of course not. His attitude is baffling to me...I was so excited about him after he showed a lot of spark against OkC, but last night made me wonder if he should continue to start on this team.
The Rudy Gay comparisons years ago were way off, he'll never achieve that kind of success at this rate. I was happy to see him shooting the ball better earlier in the season and more engaged on defense. But it likely was another aberrant stretch we commonly see from our budding superstar.
276th in PER
374th in win shares per 48
363rd in eFG%
335th in regular FG%
276th in free throw %
316th in net defensive rating
351st in net offensive rating
This guy is one of the worst players in basketball being given max contract dollars and starter minutes and he's a bum. The Wiggins apologists can say what they want to, but I've had enough. He's an anchor holding this team down both by his on-court play and his hit against the salary cap.
Difficult to argue against this...he's had a terrible season and embarrased himself last night at the line and in post-game comments. Do any other teams have a maxed out wing against whom other teams can employ a hack-a-Wig strategy? Of course not. His attitude is baffling to me...I was so excited about him after he showed a lot of spark against OkC, but last night made me wonder if he should continue to start on this team.
Wig will give you those "every once in a while" games that renews hope in some fans. But I saw them for what they were a long time ago: Outliers. It happens with every player. Cam's numbers above are more in line with a 3rd or 4th bench wing type of player than anything else. We dug a hole with Wig and I don't think there is any way out but to unload him. Unfortunately, that won't happen with Thibs still in charge and my guess is whatever new GM we hire will think he's smart enough to get more out of Wiggins. He's the ultimate tease.
276th in PER
374th in win shares per 48
363rd in eFG%
335th in regular FG%
276th in free throw %
316th in net defensive rating
351st in net offensive rating
This guy is one of the worst players in basketball being given max contract dollars and starter minutes and he's a bum. The Wiggins apologists can say what they want to, but I've had enough. He's an anchor holding this team down both by his on-court play and his hit against the salary cap.
Difficult to argue against this...he's had a terrible season and embarrased himself last night at the line and in post-game comments. Do any other teams have a maxed out wing against whom other teams can employ a hack-a-Wig strategy? Of course not. His attitude is baffling to me...I was so excited about him after he showed a lot of spark against OkC, but last night made me wonder if he should continue to start on this team.
Wig will give you those "every once in a while" games that renews hope in some fans. But I saw them for what they were a long time ago: Outliers. It happens with every player. Cam's numbers above are more in line with a 3rd or 4th bench wing type of player than anything else. We dug a hole with Wig and I don't think there is any way out but to unload him. Unfortunately, that won't happen with Thibs still in charge and my guess is whatever new GM we hire will think he's smart enough to get more out of Wiggins. He's the ultimate tease.
No mention about Wiggins hustle plays in this game though. Man he had some terrible defensive possessions especially in the first half. Unfortunately Wiggins has earned his rep.
It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's sad. All those years in the early stages of the franchise where we always seemed to draw the pick right after the blue chippers were gone. We finally get a guy who was considered a can't miss star. A guy who was crucial to the immediate and long term future of the team. A guy who would allow us to forget about some of the low points. And then we find out he has just as many flaws as strengths. We discover he's not an alpha. For some reason he regresses instead of improves.
I suppose this happens to other franchises ocasionally. Markelle Fultz and Greg Oden come to mind as can't miss players who didn't fulfill their promise for one reason or another. But our franchise needed a different result this time. Who knows when or if we will ever be in the position to select a can't miss player again. What we do know is we're not much better than the day we traded for Wig, and that is a travesty. I like Wig the player and especially the man. But he's not what we thought we were getting, and not what we desperately needed.
This franchise's problem isn't that Wiggins will never be what was promised, or that we always draft one spot later than there are obvious stars available. The problem is that they never manage to be the team to draft that transformational player that is there every year in the 5-15 range. Has there been a single year that we cannot look back on and see a player we didn't take that is a star player now? You don't hit on that player every year, but the Wolves have never done so with the single exception of the year they drafted KG.
