kekgeek1 wrote:According to Kevin O'Conner there was a 3 way deal of Capela to the hawks, Cov to the rockets and picks to the wolves was in place.
Wolves were going to use the picks to flip for Russell. The warriors declined the trade so the 3 way fell apart.
I was seeing that it initially was just one pick back to the Wolves that the Warriors balked at, leading the Wolves to want 2 first rounders instead. Either way the Warriors sound ridiculous and it pisses me off they are going to end up with a high lotto pick when they don't deserve one what so ever.
Why don't they deserve lottery picks?
"Smart" organizations are those who take advantage of the hand they're dealt... even when that's (1) other teams' drafting ineptitude (see Kahn), or (2) a injury-prone player signing a bargain contract than getting healthy and becoming a superstar, or (3) a salary cap hike at the perfect time to land another superstar, (4) wrangling their way into deals during a year when key players are hurt to retool for the following season.
The Warriors, from the owner to the players, are a bit smug. They're kinda annoying. But, they continually take advantage of what they have to work with... call it luck or competence. But it's part of the reason they're the signature franchise of the decade.
I'd call it competence. They drafted Curry after others like the Wolves passed on him. They drafted Thompson with the 11th pick in the first round. They drafted Green in the 2nd round. So they built their core with really smart drafting. And they did all that before going after a vet named Iggy to shore up their team as a championship contender. That's smart because the better organizations build their core with young talent before pursuing vets in their prime via trades. They managed their cap well, enabling them to sign Durant. They found a way to get DLO last summer and they obviously acquired him as an asset, not as a long-term player for the team - very forward looking and strategic. Finally, they're taking this opportunity with Thompson's ACL and Curry's hand injury to tank - taking care not to rush Thompson or Curry back into action. What does Rosas do? He trades up for Garland, whiffs on him and then takes a guy with a broken shot.
It's not hard to distinguish competence from ... the Wolves. :)
Let's not forget the Monta Ellis for Andrew Bogut trade.
There were many questions about whether that was wise back in the day. Many had the Warriors as losers in that trade.
"Golden State is really banking on Bogut in a big way for this trade to make any sort of sense for the long haul. It's difficult to understand what the vision in the Warriors' front office is at this time."
Curry was the oft-injured player... Ellis was the perennial 21+ ppg gunner. Bogut was injured and not considered a game-changing dynamic player. But that trade was a lot more about fit and environment than anything else. Or, there's the firing of Mark Jackson after a couple of playoff runs.
The list of savvy or even competent moves goes on and on. They deserve all of it. Bad teams aren't owed anything other than more ping pong balls. And that's a loser mentality/strategy anyway.
All true, Abe. I'll agree that simply losing for sake of more ping pong balls is a losing strategy if that is the end in itself. The point is to optimize assets to produce options that can be used to substantially improve the team. It's about thinking several steps ahead with multiple scenarios. It's about being patient. For the Wolves right now, it means means maximizing valuable assets for next June's draft to produce multiple options, which could include trading up or trading out. That means putting a premium on evaluating the young players we have over winning - something the Wolves appear to be doing. Call that tanking if you want, but it's the smart thing to do. But it can't just be favoring evaluation and experimentation over winning the rest of this season. It also means trading Covington for multiple first round picks and, in my view, getting at least a somewhat protected lottery pick for Wiggins. It means taking all those assets and others into next June's draft with a multi-scenario plan for using those assets to improve the team. Russell will likely be available next June. Booker or Beal might be available. And who knows what other young high-upside talent will be available. Then there's Haliburton who I think would be a game-changer for the Wolves. He's likely going to be a top 3 pick.
Rather than simply attempting to maximize ping pong balls, the Wolves should be mapping out a multi-scenario strategy for next June's draft with an arsenal of assets consisting of their own high lottery pick, two or three additional 1st round picks received for Covington (and perhaps Wiggins), Culver, Layman and Gorgui's expiring deal. Instead, we read repeatedly that the Wolves "are relentlessly pursuing DLO" and that the Wolves are "desperately trying to get DLO." That's the mark of a losing organization - i.e., an organization that amateurishly gets locked into pursing at best a borderline all-star to the point where the whole world knows it and characterizes the pursuit as relentless and desperate. The only good news is that Rosas hasn't yet made any of the ridiculously dumb deals discussed in the media. We have to hope that Rosas is a lot smarter than he appeared to be last June. I'm not optimistic. But then again, I'm a Wolves fan so why would I be.
GS was wildly competent but...was also blessed with a bit of luck as well. They made some of their own luck but some of their "managing of the cap" to get Durant was a bit of fluke. They did a good job not overpaying Curry which was part of that but they were lucky that worked out. I'm not saying this to take away from what GS built I'm just saying they had some good fortune too and it should be mentioned.
Who "deserves" what could be a pretty lengthy philosophical discussion. For all we know GS could get a top pick and they end up being basically a bust. Would they "deserve" that? ;)
crazysauce wrote:Can somebody tell me why rosas is trying to get malik beasley? Apparently nuggets are asking for 1st for him. Why would we be at all interested?
Dane Moore Discussed a possible Beasley trade on his trade podcast this week. Basically he is a scoring guard that doesn't play D. He will be a RFA this summer. Denver probably can't resign him and he is probably worth a 1st rounder but IDK if they will get that for him. He turned 23 in November.
kekgeek1 wrote:Shams is reporting the Warriors are moving on from conversations with the Wolves about Dlo, the Wolves know what it takes to get Dlo but at this time will not meet that asking price.
Good, they shouldn't give in to the Warriors demand of getting the Wolves unprotected 2020 1st. GTFO here with that BS. They act like they have all this leverage when in reality Russell would be a THIRD guard behind Curry and Thompson and they want to get below the tax line too.
They do have all the leverage though, they have the asset that the Wolves want and they are in no hurry to trade Dlo, it isn't like Dlo won't be tradeable during the offseason or going forward. I don't blame the warriors asking for what they are asking for.
No doubt they have more leverage, but they are acting like the Wolves have none or.... maybe they're playing them out to be desperate in which case the Wolves should call their bluff. It is the smart starting point for them in trading DLo to ask for a high prized first rounder though.
crazysauce wrote:Guy is shooting like 39 percent right now? What exactly am i missing if he also doesnt defend?
The dude shot 47% and 40% from 3 last year on 5 attempts. Not saying he is the best player ever but this draft is considered weak so a late 1st for a guy who played really good last year might be worth it.
Now he hasn't played amazing this year but there are a ton of guards in Denver so opportunity might not be there every night
kekgeek1 wrote:Shams is reporting the Warriors are moving on from conversations with the Wolves about Dlo, the Wolves know what it takes to get Dlo but at this time will not meet that asking price.
Good, they shouldn't give in to the Warriors demand of getting the Wolves unprotected 2020 1st. GTFO here with that BS. They act like they have all this leverage when in reality Russell would be a THIRD guard behind Curry and Thompson and they want to get below the tax line too.
They do have all the leverage though, they have the asset that the Wolves want and they are in no hurry to trade Dlo, it isn't like Dlo won't be tradeable during the offseason or going forward. I don't blame the warriors asking for what they are asking for.
No doubt they have more leverage, but they are acting like the Wolves have none or.... maybe they're playing them out to be desperate in which case the Wolves should call their bluff. It is the smart starting point for them in trading DLo to ask for a high prized first rounder though.
I just think they really don't want to trade Dlo. Dlo has the reputation of being a ball stopper but this year he has been one of the best players in the NBA coming off screens in catch a shoot opportunities and has been great in dribble handoff pull up 3s. He could easily fit into GS system. And if not this offseason Dlo and an unprotected 1st gets them at the front of the table for Beal.
So they don't need to trade Dlo so they should be asking for the world for him and see if the seemingly desperate Rosas bites
The Warriors are trying to out tank us. They traded Burks and GRIII to Philly for picks. They must have some concession people that are lighting it up in practice because they are dumping guys from an already G League level roster. Philly needs to clear roster spots so Rosas should be trying to get Trey Burke from them for something.
crazysauce wrote:Guy is shooting like 39 percent right now? What exactly am i missing if he also doesnt defend?
The dude shot 47% and 40% from 3 last year on 5 attempts. Not saying he is the best player ever but this draft is considered weak so a late 1st for a guy who played really good last year might be worth it.
Now he hasn't played amazing this year but there are a ton of guards in Denver so opportunity might not be there every night
Heard that he turned down a 3 year/$30M extension from Denver.
Was it because he wanted more money... or more playing time?
And has his regression brought that asking price down?
[Note: Beasley on a rookie deal figuring things out? Great value! Beasley on a multi-year free agent deal for tens of millions of dollars where he's expected to be a team leader? That's entirely different... at the very least, much riskier.]
-Nuggets fans are pissed that they traded him instead of Gary Harris
-He evidently is ALWAYS ready to fire, no Teague 3 point yips here
-He wants more money and playing time, his dad was on social media saying that Denver wasn't offering what Malik is worth.
