Defense and kat

[mjs34]

Seems like people are going overboard on KAT and his defense. I am not a huge fan of team ratings, but there has to be something to this - https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2020.html

Seems to show that KAT isn't quite the liability that others are, while his off rtg is off the charts compared to his teammates. I am guessing the light schedule has had a lot more to do with the def rtg lately, not too mention how much worse many would be without the recent stretch. The game today also seems to back that up.

We have a top ten or fifteen player that is 24. Let's not make the huge mistake of taking him for granted. IF the FO can't build a defense around him, we should be trading the FO not KAT.

[Wolvesfan21]

I think the "you can't win with KAT" is BS too. Centers are not as important in todays game anyhow which hasn't even been brought up. Most teams are playing bigs who can shoot the 3 so your center is already not protecting the rim since he is out at the top of the key.

Building a winning team isn't about one player anyways, not to mention your best player. It's like those idiots who wanted to get rid of Rubio because the team couldn't win with him. He wasn't even being paid close to max money. "Rubio can't shoot" so we can't run an offense. Now we have several players who can't shoot.

It blows my mind, the Wolves can't make 3's so the solution is to get rid of the best shooting big in history. lol

KAT is one of the few guys who actually lives up to his contract. Point the finger at all the players who are not and replace those (Teague, Bell, Graham, Okogie, Wiggins (not as terrible), Dieng (not as bad anymore).

Could KAT play better defense? Sure, so could Steph Curry, DLO, Booker, Irving, Harden, etc.

[KG4Ever]

Oh, KAT is an amazing talent and is getting better each year, plus he has publicly been nothing but positive about the organization, the state and the coach. I think he can absolutely be a plus defender (though I think he may be better suited as a perimeter defender playing next to a rim protector). You never win when you trade someone as talented as KAT away.

[Lipoli390]

Seems like people are going overboard on KAT and his defense. I am not a huge fan of team ratings, but there has to be something to this - https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2020.html

Seems to show that KAT isn't quite the liability that others are, while his off rtg is off the charts compared to his teammates. I am guessing the light schedule has had a lot more to do with the def rtg lately, not too mention how much worse many would be without the recent stretch. The game today also seems to back that up.

We have a top ten or fifteen player that is 24. Let's not make the huge mistake of taking him for granted. IF the FO can't build a defense around him, we should be trading the FO not KAT.

Well said, sjm. I agree completely. KAT ranks 47th in advanced defensive rating at 106.1. He's right behind the defensive stalwart Robert Covington who ranks 45th at 105.8. Compare KAT's defensive rating to Wiggins at 112.2 or Teague at 113.3. So statistically, KAT is nowhere close to the train wreck defensively that so many seem to believe. To the contrary, he's actually decent defensively from a statistical perspective. His defensive stats are even more impressive when you consider the heavy load he carries on the offensive end AND rebounding, which takes a lot of energy. I'll add that he was obviously playing with a very sore knee for quite a while this season, which was probably responsible for his drop-off defensively at some point this season.

And of course, as you noted, KAT's offensive is off the charts. He ranks higher that James Harden, Anthony Davis and Luka Doncic in advanced offensive stats. And again, let's not forget his elite rebounding. KAT has a 28PER. Compare that to Wiggins at 17.42.

If this organization can't build a contender around KAT, then this organization should fold and disappear.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Ugh, folks, for the 100th time, Ortg and Drtg in B-ball reference is NOT a good stat. It has almost nothing to do with how the team actually plays defense when the player is on the floor and instead heavily weighs box score stats like defensive rebounds, blocks, and steals. We all know that doing those things don't necessarily mean great defense.

Please use NBA.com for Ortg and Drtg. This actually tells you how the team does when said player is on the floor. Here are the numbers for the Wolves regular rotation players this year:

Noah Vonleh - 100.4
Napier - 101.1
Dieng - 101.4
Okogie - 106.2
Culver - 106.9
RoCo - 108.1
Wiggins - 109.6
Teague - 112.8
KAT - 114.5

Now you can argue that the other players on the floor also impact KAT's defense.....only except all those other players play better defense when he is off the floor.

KAT On court D-rtg - 114.5
KAT Off court D-rtg - 102.7

Not good people!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I think the "you can't win with KAT" is BS too. Centers are not as important in todays game anyhow which hasn't even been brought up. Most teams are playing bigs who can shoot the 3 so your center is already not protecting the rim since he is out at the top of the key.

Building a winning team isn't about one player anyways, not to mention your best player. It's like those idiots who wanted to get rid of Rubio because the team couldn't win with him. He wasn't even being paid close to max money. "Rubio can't shoot" so we can't run an offense. Now we have several players who can't shoot.

It blows my mind, the Wolves can't make 3's so the solution is to get rid of the best shooting big in history. lol

KAT is one of the few guys who actually lives up to his contract. Point the finger at all the players who are not and replace those (Teague, Bell, Graham, Okogie, Wiggins (not as terrible), Dieng (not as bad anymore).

Could KAT play better defense? Sure, so could Steph Curry, DLO, Booker, Irving, Harden, etc.

Who is saying "you can't win" with KAT? I think what Abe has been saying all along and I have jumped on the bandwagon is that it's hard to build a contender with an offensively gifted/defensively struggling big man. The big has way more defensive impact than a PG or SG, yet on offense they can't impose their will as easily since they aren't ball handlers, so comparing KAT to the likes of Curry and Harden is apples and oranges.

[kekgeek]

I think the "you can't win with KAT" is BS too. Centers are not as important in todays game anyhow which hasn't even been brought up. Most teams are playing bigs who can shoot the 3 so your center is already not protecting the rim since he is out at the top of the key.

Building a winning team isn't about one player anyways, not to mention your best player. It's like those idiots who wanted to get rid of Rubio because the team couldn't win with him. He wasn't even being paid close to max money. "Rubio can't shoot" so we can't run an offense. Now we have several players who can't shoot.

It blows my mind, the Wolves can't make 3's so the solution is to get rid of the best shooting big in history. lol

KAT is one of the few guys who actually lives up to his contract. Point the finger at all the players who are not and replace those (Teague, Bell, Graham, Okogie, Wiggins (not as terrible), Dieng (not as bad anymore).

Could KAT play better defense? Sure, so could Steph Curry, DLO, Booker, Irving, Harden, etc.

Who is saying "you can't win" with KAT? I think what Abe has been saying all along and I have jumped on the bandwagon is that it's hard to build a contender with an offensively gifted/defensively struggling big man. The big has way more defensive impact than a PG or SG, yet on offense they can't impose their will as easily since they aren't ball handlers, so comparing KAT to the likes of Curry and Harden is apples and oranges.

Yep, Im in the same boat and that is not a knock on Kat talent. Kat is one of the best offensive big men in NBA history. It is just so hard today to win with an offensive big man who struggles on defense. Of the 4 best offensive big men in the NBA, Davis, Jokic, Embiid and Kat none of them have made a conference final. Embiid and Davis have a pretty darn good shot this year but they are significantly better at defense then Kat.

I think Kat is amazing just don't know if it is possible for the Wolves to compete with the team built with Kat as the best player because it takes other factors to get the ball and teams can easily double to Kat in the post and even when Kat posts up he has to work his ass off to get his shots off and they are only worth 2 pts (not his fault).

Kat really needs to improve on defense if the Wolves ever want to go somewhere. Like I said last week in a post there is only 1 two man combo that is better with Kat on the floor on defense and that is Laymen.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm with the Q, Kek, and the Abe gang on this one. And I'll take it a little further. KAT sucks on defense. If the stats don't convince you watch the fucking games. He's terrible on that end of the floor.

This doesn't mean we should trade him. But you can't put him at the 5 and expect him to be a part of a good team defense. With as good as KAT is offensively, you can easily afford to pair him with a 5 who can be more of a defensive specialist. To me it seems so easy. Draft a stud PG, find a knockdown shooter to pair with Wig at the wings and you have a pretty damn good starting lineup. It really shouldn't be that hard to build a consistent playoff participant.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'll say it again, just because KAT is on the team it is not stopping you from adding players better then him! His contract isn't stopping the team from making moves, while I could easily say Teagues 19, Wiggins 27, Diengs 16 are.

I definitely understand your perspective but I would rather keep talent then ship talent off. I'll agree with Lip and we can argue which sites numbers really reflect the truth (I think it more in between). If the Wolves front office can't build a winner with KAT then they should simply close up shop and leave.

Most of the mismanagement goes back to Thibs of course. Nearly every move he made as GM was a bad one. With a competent GM this team is a title contender right now, instead we had Thibs.

Saying that if the right deal came around, sure I would look to do it, but it would have to make sense. I don't see trading KAT for any wing that can score would make a difference.

I could argue you can't build around Nowitzki, but he won a Championship who played the 5 at times.

I could name a dozen other players you can't win with. How about Kyrie Irving (minus LeBron)? Devin Booker? Bradley Beal? Chris Paul? Westbrook? Harden? Paul George? Butler? Lillard? Oladipo? Conley? Kemba? Simmons? You can't win with those guys either.

Instead of proclaiming KAT the center piece, just consider him one piece. Now add more pieces.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'll say it again, just because KAT is on the team it is not stopping you from adding players better then him! His contract isn't stopping the team from making moves, while I could easily say Teagues 19, Wiggins 27, Diengs 16 are.

I definitely understand your perspective but I would rather keep talent then ship talent off. I'll agree with Lip and we can argue which sites numbers really reflect the truth (I think it more in between). If the Wolves front office can't build a winner with KAT then they should simply close up shop and leave.

Most of the mismanagement goes back to Thibs of course. Nearly every move he made as GM was a bad one. With a competent GM this team is a title contender right now, instead we had Thibs.

Saying that if the right deal came around, sure I would look to do it, but it would have to make sense. I don't see trading KAT for any wing that can score would make a difference.

I could argue you can't build around Nowitzki, but he won a Championship who played the 5 at times.

I could name a dozen other players you can't win with. How about Kyrie Irving (minus LeBron)? Devin Booker? Bradley Beal? Chris Paul? Westbrook? Harden? Paul George? Butler? Lillard? Oladipo? Conley? Kemba? Simmons? You can't win with those guys either.

Instead of proclaiming KAT the center piece, just consider him one piece. Now add more pieces.

If he's not the centerpiece, he too is overpaid.