TeamRicky wrote:I listened to Zgoda's podcast and read this thread and I am getting a tad more nervous about the offseason. The biggest things that concerns me is the desire to trade the pick (which I think would probably be a big mistake, especially if one of the elite forwards are available when we pick). I felt some relief when during the end of the season presser, Thibs mentioned matching up player windows, so I was hoping this meant we wouldn't sacrifice the future to win now. I just hope Boston gets Butler.
I am not thrilled to hear that Thibs puts getting a shooter as our biggest need as I think its much easier to find good 3 point shooters than good defenders, and three point shooting is something that can be improved organically easier than defense can, so I wish the first priority is to help our defense (though I absolutely hope we add players that can both shoot and defend well).
I disagree that shooting is easier to improve organically than defense. It's not a big percentage of players that actually improve significantly as shooters. We have a young team that still does not know how to play defense as a unit. They are still mostly playing as individuals and aren't good with rotations and still get lost. I think we can easily organically improve defensively if we learn how to play team defense and continuity with the core should help us getting better every year defensively moving forward under Thibs. Sure bringing in defensive minded players might help speed that process along but then we will lack scoring options when the playoffs roll around and we have only 3 guys that can score the ball. The bottom line is Towns, Wiggins and Lavine all need to improve defensively or we aren't going anywhere and they will also need shooting around them to help keep the other teams scrambling defensively. A good defensive scheme that can be executed can cover for not having 5 great defenders on the court as long as everyone does their part. There's really no way to get around lack of shooting offensively.
I know lots of players who can't shoot 3s in college and in their NBA careers learn to shoot at a decent clip. I also looked at the top 30 3 point shooters by percentage and 80% were available as second rounders or free agents. Good defense is a much scarcer commodity than good three point shooting. Case in point, everybody thought Thibs could get this group of young talented players to improve defensively and they regressed slightly. Defense is both a mindset and physical tools. You can't teach players who don't desire to defend, don't have defensive awareness and you can't teach lateral quickness and reach. Players love to spend time honing their three point shot. They will spend much more time in a gym shooting 3s than doing work to become a better defender. Look at Zach and Wiggins as they have spent hours improving their 3s and yet I haven't seen anywhere near that level of improvement on their defensive side. Same goes for KAT. I am not saying shooting isn't important (it is) but we need so much more help on the defensive side, its not even close.
Based on this information (thanks Lip!), some free agent names come to mind, most of whom we've already discussed.
Tony Snell: 3 and D wing. Shot over 40% from 3 this year. 25 year old RFA. Doubt Milwaukee matches a large offer. "In the same window" as our young studs. Former Thibs player/draft pick.
PJ Tucker: Definitely provides the defensive tenacity. Shoots it ok from deep percentage-wise (35% career) but doesn't shoot them at a high rate (makes less than 1 a game). 31 year old UFA.
CJ Miles: Has a player option that he will almost certainly decline. Shoots it extremely well from deep and made over 2 a game the past 3 seasons. Very average defensively however. 29 years old.
Serge Ibaka: I've made it clear I don't want him for what his price tag will likely be. However, he hits 3s at a high rate and is still a serviceable rim protector.
Paul Milsap: I don't think this is happening. Good player but will be 32 next season with a large price tag. Doesn't shoot well from 3 (31% this past season and 32% the season before) and doesn't protect the rim.
JaMychael Green: 26 year old RFA, which will make signing him difficult. Tough, gritty defender but provides almost nothing as a rim protector. Shoots it well from deep percentage-wise (38% this season) but makes less than 1 a game. Good rebounder.
Patrick Patterson: 27 year old UFA. Above average shooter from deep (37%). Smart defender but no more than slightly above average.
As far as the draft, Tatum would look really nice but I doubt that happens unless we luck into a top 3 pick. After that, Monk can really shoot it as can Markannen. Both should be able to contribute as shooters right away. Jonathan Isaac has potential to be a good defender with his length but do we really want to wait 3-4 years?
I'd still call Boston and get in a 3 team deal with Chicago. Main pieces would be Jimmy Butler to Boston, Jae Crowder to Minnesota, Boston pick, Wolves pick and Avery Bradley to Chicago. Crowder would be a phenomenal addition to this squad.
Mr. Brightside---I'd still call Boston and get in a 3 team deal with Chicago. Main pieces would be Jimmy Butler to Boston, Jae Crowder to Minnesota, Boston pick, Wolves pick and Avery Bradley to Chicago. Crowder would be a phenomenal addition to this squad.
Brightside, I don't know why you think Isaac is a 3 or 4 year project? If its because he's skinny--Durant, Paul George, Kawhi, Wiggins etc. were all skinny, and Isaac will fill out. He's long and he's got a great outside shot with a high release point. He also is a better defender than any of our wings right now. He's already a very good rebounder. He's said to have a very high basketball IQ. He'll be in the rotation as backup 3 or 4 or both and I think he'd start in year 2. Some thought Towns would take a few years to contribute too. The nice thing about Isaac is he has a very diverse set of skills and that will get him in the lineup pretty quickly. Tatum and Jackson also are pretty polished guys. Any of those three guys will be in the rotation before the end of year one and contributing. I do like Crowder, but if we can land one of these three guys, I'd prefer to do that. Keep the window long and the rookie contract will keep our payroll down so that we can add other pieces.
TeamRicky wrote:Brightside, I don't know why you think Isaac is a 3 or 4 year project? If its because he's skinny--Durant, Paul George, Kawhi, Wiggins etc. were all skinny, and Isaac will fill out. He's long and he's got a great outside shot with a high release point. He also is a better defender than any of our wings right now. He's already a very good rebounder. He's said to have a very high basketball IQ. He'll be in the rotation as backup 3 or 4 or both and I think he'd start in year 2. Some thought Towns would take a few years to contribute too. The nice thing about Isaac is he has a very diverse set of skills and that will get him in the lineup pretty quickly. Tatum and Jackson also are pretty polished guys. Any of those three guys will be in the rotation before the end of year one and contributing. I do like Crowder, but if we can land one of these three guys, I'd prefer to do that. Keep the window long and the rookie contract will keep our payroll down so that we can add other pieces.
Isaac is a project because he's raw and physically he can't function with his frame as a PF in the NBA. His first year is really him needing to bulk up 20 pounds. You can't get away with that frailness at the 4 (none of the guys you mentioned are power forwards). Some guys add to their frame, but Randolph didn't when he was here. Brewer sure as hell didn't when he was here. If Isaac was a 3 and was gonna be a 3 long term, he'd still have to add bulk but it wouldn't be as drastic. Isaac is too much of a twig at the 4 to bang with other 4's regardless of whether the league is getting smaller.
TeamRicky wrote:Brightside, I don't know why you think Isaac is a 3 or 4 year project? If its because he's skinny--Durant, Paul George, Kawhi, Wiggins etc. were all skinny, and Isaac will fill out. He's long and he's got a great outside shot with a high release point. He also is a better defender than any of our wings right now. He's already a very good rebounder. He's said to have a very high basketball IQ. He'll be in the rotation as backup 3 or 4 or both and I think he'd start in year 2. Some thought Towns would take a few years to contribute too. The nice thing about Isaac is he has a very diverse set of skills and that will get him in the lineup pretty quickly. Tatum and Jackson also are pretty polished guys. Any of those three guys will be in the rotation before the end of year one and contributing. I do like Crowder, but if we can land one of these three guys, I'd prefer to do that. Keep the window long and the rookie contract will keep our payroll down so that we can add other pieces.
Isaac is a project because he's raw and physically he can't function with his frame as a PF in the NBA. His first year is really him needing to bulk up 20 pounds. You can't get away with that frailness at the 4 (none of the guys you mentioned are power forwards). Some guys add to their frame, but Randolph didn't when he was here. Brewer sure as hell didn't when he was here. If Isaac was a 3 and was gonna be a 3 long term, he'd still have to add bulk but it wouldn't be as drastic. Isaac is too much of a twig at the 4 to bang with other 4's regardless of whether the league is getting smaller.
Obviously, he'd come in as the backup 3 until he's physically ready to take over at the 4. We need a backup at both 3 and 4, until Belly is ready to come back. A lot of talented guys get knocked for being too skinny and then contribute. Rudy Gobert was a twig who slid in draft too. Dont worry about his frame, it will fill out.
Obviously, he'd come in as the backup 3 until he's physically ready to take over at the 4. We need a backup at both 3 and 4, until Belly is ready to come back. A lot of talented guys get knocked for being too skinny and then contribute. Rudy Gobert was a twig who slid in draft too. Dont worry about his frame, it will fill out.
Rudy barely played at all his rookie year though (in my vision, the same would happen to Isaac while he puts on weight). Gobert had the frame to add more weight. Isaac looks way too narrow to get that much bigger
You can do drills to work on your 3 point shot and plenty of other offensive skills. What drills do you do in the offseason to get better defensively? That just seems more difficult to me especially when every year you are doing a different defensive concept. Flip wanted guys to play some zone. Sam wasn't interested in that. How different is what Thibs preaching compared to Sam? The problems Lavine Wiggins and Towns have more than anything is team defense and playing as a unit. Sure Wiggins gets backed down a few times here and there but that's not as big of an issue as being aware.
There are guys that were not known for their defense (or it was even a significant liability) coming into the league that became good defenders. Again you can find examples to support either way.
Mr. Brightside wrote:Based on this information (thanks Lip!), some free agent names come to mind, most of whom we've already discussed.
Tony Snell: 3 and D wing. Shot over 40% from 3 this year. 25 year old RFA. Doubt Milwaukee matches a large offer. "In the same window" as our young studs. Former Thibs player/draft pick.
PJ Tucker: Definitely provides the defensive tenacity. Shoots it ok from deep percentage-wise (35% career) but doesn't shoot them at a high rate (makes less than 1 a game). 31 year old UFA.
CJ Miles: Has a player option that he will almost certainly decline. Shoots it extremely well from deep and made over 2 a game the past 3 seasons. Very average defensively however. 29 years old.
Serge Ibaka: I've made it clear I don't want him for what his price tag will likely be. However, he hits 3s at a high rate and is still a serviceable rim protector.
Paul Milsap: I don't think this is happening. Good player but will be 32 next season with a large price tag. Doesn't shoot well from 3 (31% this past season and 32% the season before) and doesn't protect the rim.
JaMychael Green: 26 year old RFA, which will make signing him difficult. Tough, gritty defender but provides almost nothing as a rim protector. Shoots it well from deep percentage-wise (38% this season) but makes less than 1 a game. Good rebounder.
Patrick Patterson: 27 year old UFA. Above average shooter from deep (37%). Smart defender but no more than slightly above average.
As far as the draft, Tatum would look really nice but I doubt that happens unless we luck into a top 3 pick. After that, Monk can really shoot it as can Markannen. Both should be able to contribute as shooters right away. Jonathan Isaac has potential to be a good defender with his length but do we really want to wait 3-4 years?
I'd still call Boston and get in a 3 team deal with Chicago. Main pieces would be Jimmy Butler to Boston, Jae Crowder to Minnesota, Boston pick, Wolves pick and Avery Bradley to Chicago. Crowder would be a phenomenal addition to this squad.
Snell is interesting. It was reported that part of why the Bucks traded for him was they thought he would be an affordable rotation guy going forward. Then he goes out and has a career year shooting the ball and was a key player for a team that went to the playoffs somewhat overachieving considering their injuries and youth. I just read they really want him back. Before FA starts they will know of Hawes and Monroe will have opted in or out so that will be something to watch. If you want Snell you are gonna have to overpay for him. I don't think I would go more than 10 million per and honestly the Bucks would probably match that of they don't just agree to their own deal with him early.
Mr. Brightside wrote:Based on this information (thanks Lip!), some free agent names come to mind, most of whom we've already discussed.
Tony Snell: 3 and D wing. Shot over 40% from 3 this year. 25 year old RFA. Doubt Milwaukee matches a large offer. "In the same window" as our young studs. Former Thibs player/draft pick.
PJ Tucker: Definitely provides the defensive tenacity. Shoots it ok from deep percentage-wise (35% career) but doesn't shoot them at a high rate (makes less than 1 a game). 31 year old UFA.
CJ Miles: Has a player option that he will almost certainly decline. Shoots it extremely well from deep and made over 2 a game the past 3 seasons. Very average defensively however. 29 years old.
Serge Ibaka: I've made it clear I don't want him for what his price tag will likely be. However, he hits 3s at a high rate and is still a serviceable rim protector.
Paul Milsap: I don't think this is happening. Good player but will be 32 next season with a large price tag. Doesn't shoot well from 3 (31% this past season and 32% the season before) and doesn't protect the rim.
JaMychael Green: 26 year old RFA, which will make signing him difficult. Tough, gritty defender but provides almost nothing as a rim protector. Shoots it well from deep percentage-wise (38% this season) but makes less than 1 a game. Good rebounder.
Patrick Patterson: 27 year old UFA. Above average shooter from deep (37%). Smart defender but no more than slightly above average.
As far as the draft, Tatum would look really nice but I doubt that happens unless we luck into a top 3 pick. After that, Monk can really shoot it as can Markannen. Both should be able to contribute as shooters right away. Jonathan Isaac has potential to be a good defender with his length but do we really want to wait 3-4 years?
I'd still call Boston and get in a 3 team deal with Chicago. Main pieces would be Jimmy Butler to Boston, Jae Crowder to Minnesota, Boston pick, Wolves pick and Avery Bradley to Chicago. Crowder would be a phenomenal addition to this squad.
Snell is interesting. It was reported that part of why the Bucks traded for him was they thought he would be an affordable rotation guy going forward. Then he goes out and has a career year shooting the ball and was a key player for a team that went to the playoffs somewhat overachieving considering their injuries and youth. I just read they really want him back. Before FA starts they will know of Hawes and Monroe will have opted in or out so that will be something to watch. If you want Snell you are gonna have to overpay for him. I don't think I would go more than 10 million per and honestly the Bucks would probably match that of they don't just agree to their own deal with him early.
You're going to have to overpay to get some legitimate players here. $10 million a year isn't the same as it once was. We can't be afraid to spend money this offseason. If we are, we'll end up with Hill, Aldrich, and Rush level bits. Unacceptable this year.
