Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Cam, The answer is hell yeah, but that assumes everything you mentioned with the assurances to re-sign, etc. Of course we really don't know if he would have done that.

Once we moved all those assets to get Butler, I felt like we immediately leaped from "re-building with youth" to "win now" mode. If we could have swapped out Wiggins for George, knowing he'd re-sign with us, you'd have to make that move.

It is weird how OKC hasn't been able to put it together. They have the #2 rated defense in the NBA and George is playing pretty damn well for them. I have to believe they eventually get into the playoff picture. And that's somewhat of a good thing for us since it means we would get their draft pick this offseason!

Paul George...kinda scares me a bit (kinda acts a bit strange at times) but yeah you would have to look into that.

Q here are some interesting stats for OKC. The last 10 games they are sitting at 6th in the NBA in Defensive rating right above...interestingly the Mavs. During that time OKC is dead last in offensive rating with the Bulls right above them. Thats right the Bulls are ranked 1 spot better than OKC. Thats kinda insane. I think most of us would agree eventually OKC will figure things out but...its taking quite a while. Over that 10 game span the Wolves D isn't good but the offense is 3rd overall in the NBA. Unless they have a major injury I just don't see OKC not making the playoffs. Hopefully they don't end up figuring it out and then we have to face them. Regardless that draft pick is looking a lot more interesting than it did when the season started.

Edit:

Cam's idea of trading Wiggins for Paul George is an illustration of how Wiggins likely is going to be an asset going forward and if it doesn't work out you can likely deal him to a franchise that has to give up a star that isn't working out for them.

Monster, that depends on Wiggins' performance. If he continues to stagnate, as he has so far this season, then the whole "young player with potential" luster will continue to wear off. In hindsight, the most value he has had to date was on draft day. Ever since, his value has slowly been going down. That will only accelerate under his new contract if he continues to flatline.

As for OKC, their playoff positioning is a mixed picture for us. If they DON'T make the playoffs, we don't get their draft pick. If they DO make the playoffs, we might be the ones they face - or worse - bump out of the playoff race. So one part of me wants them to really suck and another part of me wants them to eke into the playoffs.

The luster had worn off Dipo and it only took him and Sabonis to get Paul George. I will bet (even though we have now way to really know) next offseason Wiggins will have more value than those guys combined had last offseason. Dipo's success will probably make Wiggins look even more intruiging to some teams. I think it's very easy to forget the luster that comes with a high scoring wing player under the age of 25 espcially if they have been able to stay healthy. Let's see how this season ends up and see where his value is. There is plenty of basketball between then and now.

Big O wrote:

TheSP wrote:

Comparing their results is a real stretch, but comparing their nonchalant on court attitudes is pretty accurate. Neither appeared to give a damn when they were in the middle of a terrible game. It would be a whole lot easier to cheer for Wig if he only appeared to care half as much as us schmuck fans.

I'm glad that someone here understands my point... Wiggins has all of the tools but most games absolutely does not give a f**k.

I disagree that he dosen't care. He got on the floor late in the game last night. (Didn't get it but he tried). He cut hard on that bunny he missed late.

There are some things that hold him back. Lack of handles, pretty bad hands, streaky outside shot.

He has some flaws as a player no doubt but he is still very solid. Is he max worthy at this point probably not but you have to gamble from time to time.

One thing you know about him he will be in the lineup because he has been there every game of his career.

His durability (along with KAT's) is indeed a big plus, I certainly can't deny that. It's more important than ever this year.

It has occurred to me that my Darko analogy may be off. I will instead suggest Randy Moss and his "I play when I want to play". Snarky response to some other posts - it's easier to stay healthy when you never go after a 50-50 ball and only show up on offense when you want to...

monsterpile wrote:Wiggins isn't going anywhere and so I am happy about that. If he was made available over half the league would be offering packages to take him off our hands. For one thing wings are some of the most valuable positions because of the depth of talent at that spot.

I get the reasons people want to jump off the Wiggins band wagon but let's also be somewhat realistic here. You have a lengthy very athletic 6'8" wing that has shown ability to score hasn't grown into his body yet and turns 23 in a couple months. He is going to have a lot of value going forward yet. Guys like Wiggins are gonna get paid even when money is getting tight around the league. I'm not gonna spend time looking at various Wiggins scenarios.

I"m not so sure about that, monster. I have my differences with Thibs' coaching, but I don't think he is dumb. I'm fairly certain he did the math when he signed Teague (still a bad move IMO) and knew one of the Big 3 would have to go before the end of next year to stay out of a ridiculously high lux tax. I think he always knew it would be Wig, and he was hoping to find the right moment when he could sell high. Unfortunately, it looks like that moment may have passed. I agree with you that some teams will be offering packages to us once Thibs starts shopping him, but those packages won't be as rich as they would have been a year ago.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Wiggins isn't going anywhere and so I am happy about that. If he was made available over half the league would be offering packages to take him off our hands. For one thing wings are some of the most valuable positions because of the depth of talent at that spot.

I get the reasons people want to jump off the Wiggins band wagon but let's also be somewhat realistic here. You have a lengthy very athletic 6'8" wing that has shown ability to score hasn't grown into his body yet and turns 23 in a couple months. He is going to have a lot of value going forward yet. Guys like Wiggins are gonna get paid even when money is getting tight around the league. I'm not gonna spend time looking at various Wiggins scenarios.

I"m not so sure about that, monster. I have my differences with Thibs' coaching, but I don't think he is dumb. I'm fairly certain he did the math when he signed Teague (still a bad move IMO) and knew one of the Big 3 would have to go before the end of next year to stay out of a ridiculously high lux tax. I think he always knew it would be Wig, and he was hoping to find the right moment when he could sell high. Unfortunately, it looks like that moment may have passed. I agree with you that some teams will be offering packages to us once Thibs starts shopping him, but those packages won't be as rich as they would have been a year ago.

Wiggins might be the guy but if he develops, Teague and Gorgui will be the ones to go.

That is why it is key to develop the youth in tyus, Patton, OKC pick, 2019 1st, a wing maybe brown or MGH.

Gorgui contact is the real killer for a guy he plays 16 minutes a game

Also the projected lux tax number for 2020 is 131 mil. With the cap holds and contacts we would be at 151 mil. If you get rid of the cap holds of taj, cole and Crawford that is a total of 33 mil. Turning our number to 118 mil. Butler will make make about 10 mil more so, 129 mil and towns about 7 more mil than his cap hold. So 136 mil. So just about 5 mil over lux tax. I'm guessing we would get rid of Teague and/or dieng if wiggins would develop before wiggins.

This was amature math.

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Wiggins isn't going anywhere and so I am happy about that. If he was made available over half the league would be offering packages to take him off our hands. For one thing wings are some of the most valuable positions because of the depth of talent at that spot.

I get the reasons people want to jump off the Wiggins band wagon but let's also be somewhat realistic here. You have a lengthy very athletic 6'8" wing that has shown ability to score hasn't grown into his body yet and turns 23 in a couple months. He is going to have a lot of value going forward yet. Guys like Wiggins are gonna get paid even when money is getting tight around the league. I'm not gonna spend time looking at various Wiggins scenarios.

I"m not so sure about that, monster. I have my differences with Thibs' coaching, but I don't think he is dumb. I'm fairly certain he did the math when he signed Teague (still a bad move IMO) and knew one of the Big 3 would have to go before the end of next year to stay out of a ridiculously high lux tax. I think he always knew it would be Wig, and he was hoping to find the right moment when he could sell high. Unfortunately, it looks like that moment may have passed. I agree with you that some teams will be offering packages to us once Thibs starts shopping him, but those packages won't be as rich as they would have been a year ago.

Wiggins might be the guy but if he develops, Teague and Gorgui will be the ones to go.

That is why it is key to develop the youth in tyus, Patton, OKC pick, 2019 1st, a wing maybe brown or MGH.

Gorgui contact is the real killer for a guy he plays 16 minutes a game

Geek -- I can't think of any team that would take Teague at $19 million per year for two more years after this season. It's unlikely Thibs will move Gorgui. He won't always be a 16 minute per game guy. Taj could get hurt this season and has only one year left on his contract after this season. And Thibs really likes Gorgui. Obviously, anyone on this team except maybe Butler and KAT is tradeable for the the right price. But I don't see Teague generating any interest around the League and I don't see Thibs shopping Gorgui. Actually, I don't see Thibs shopping Wiggins either. Thibs still seems genuinely positive about Wiggins development and potential. So I think Wiggins is here for at least the rest of this season and probably beyond. I think Thibs could use him better by, for example, running more plays for him posting up and as a cutter to the basket. And maybe Wiggins can finally get some consistency on his perimeter shot.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Wiggins isn't going anywhere and so I am happy about that. If he was made available over half the league would be offering packages to take him off our hands. For one thing wings are some of the most valuable positions because of the depth of talent at that spot.

I get the reasons people want to jump off the Wiggins band wagon but let's also be somewhat realistic here. You have a lengthy very athletic 6'8" wing that has shown ability to score hasn't grown into his body yet and turns 23 in a couple months. He is going to have a lot of value going forward yet. Guys like Wiggins are gonna get paid even when money is getting tight around the league. I'm not gonna spend time looking at various Wiggins scenarios.

I"m not so sure about that, monster. I have my differences with Thibs' coaching, but I don't think he is dumb. I'm fairly certain he did the math when he signed Teague (still a bad move IMO) and knew one of the Big 3 would have to go before the end of next year to stay out of a ridiculously high lux tax. I think he always knew it would be Wig, and he was hoping to find the right moment when he could sell high. Unfortunately, it looks like that moment may have passed. I agree with you that some teams will be offering packages to us once Thibs starts shopping him, but those packages won't be as rich as they would have been a year ago.

Wiggins might be the guy but if he develops, Teague and Gorgui will be the ones to go.

That is why it is key to develop the youth in tyus, Patton, OKC pick, 2019 1st, a wing maybe brown or MGH.

Gorgui contact is the real killer for a guy he plays 16 minutes a game

Geek -- I can't think of any team that would take Teague at $19 million per year for two more years after this season. It's unlikely Thibs will move Gorgui. He won't always be a 16 minute per game guy. Taj could get hurt this season and has only one year left on his contract after this season. And Thibs really likes Gorgui. Obviously, anyone on this team except maybe Butler and KAT is tradeable for the the right price. But I don't see Teague generating any interest around the League and I don't see Thibs shopping Gorgui. Actually, I don't see Thibs shopping Wiggins either. Thibs still seems genuinely positive about Wiggins development and potential. So I think Wiggins is here for at least the rest of this season and probably beyond. I think Thibs could use him better by, for example, running more plays for him posting up and as a cutter to the basket. And maybe Wiggins can finally get some consistency on his perimeter shot.

I agree I don't think we trade anyone, LST is convinced that we will be forced to trade a big 3 member because of the lux tax. I'm saying if wiggins develops (who knows how much more) we would look to trade teague (1 year left on his deal) or Gorgi before a developed wiggins.

If the big 3 develop I'm saying teague or Gorgui will be the sacrificial lambs before wiggins because we can draft young talent to replace teague or Gorgui, it is do much harder to find naturally gifted players like Wiggins and Kat (now can they put it together it is still to be seen)

Wow. The same guys that were pleading for adelman to play the caged lion derrick williams( Is he still in the league?). The guys that have kevin martin as our number 1 wing going into wiggins 2nd season.( The same season that happen to be martin's last in the nba as no team pick him up after that season). They are in the 'I told You So' phase now regarding wiggins?

I certainly understand the frustrations some has with wig. All of us have our own favorite type of player and we tend to manipulate our argument towards the types we like. The fact of the matter is, all 30 teams would gladly have wiggins and all 30gm's would offer wiggins the max contract if they could and there is a reason for that.

The good news is that despite how terrible Wiggins has been we are still winning. So if we can just get some avg play from Wiggins we should easily make the playoffs (barring injuries of course). I feel the other guys are going to be consistent, Wiggins is a bonus on whatever he could bring.