Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I think Ainge knows what he's doing and he has the track record to prove it. The fact that Ainge seems to have had little interest in adding Butler makes me even more concerned about the deal Thibs just made.

Ainge is making it seem like their wealth of assets is making it harder to make a deal. Teams are more demanding of them. Poor Danny. I feel awful. I don't believe for a second that he didn't want Butler. He probably knows he has Hayward in his back pocket and his coach really wants that.

Hayward or Butler....easy answer for me, I don't get it.....

Agreed, but Hayward + #3 or Butler is what the scenario was.

mrhockey89 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I think Ainge knows what he's doing and he has the track record to prove it. The fact that Ainge seems to have had little interest in adding Butler makes me even more concerned about the deal Thibs just made.

Ainge is making it seem like their wealth of assets is making it harder to make a deal. Teams are more demanding of them. Poor Danny. I feel awful. I don't believe for a second that he didn't want Butler. He probably knows he has Hayward in his back pocket and his coach really wants that.

Hayward or Butler....easy answer for me, I don't get it.....

Agreed, but Hayward + #3 or Butler is what the scenario was.

Hayward makes sense for Boston for two reasons. First, Hayward is a better 3-point shooter and Boston's already a good defensive teams. Second, as pointed out already, the Celtics can get Hayward without giving up their #3 pick. The risk in Danny's strategy is that there's no certainty Hayward signs with Boston. But I guess when you had the best record in the East, have a relatively young team and lots of great draft assets you can afford to take risks without much downside.

monsterpile wrote:JVG was on Barreiro today. The biggest thing that stuck out was when Dan said that the young guys got along great and now Butler comes in and how would that all play out. JVG said he doesn't know if those guys got along well off the court or had great chemistry off the court but he said they didn't on the court. They didn't make each other better. They didn't make winning plays. He said he hopes there is some conflict because you need some of that. He said Butler had to work his way up he wasn't a #1 overall pick. I have to agree with him.

Another thing he said that was interesting that Dan fleshed out was he mentioned how media can be fooled by what players coaches say but players and coaches aren't fooled. He said guys have to actually do the right things and commit to it. Dan thought that could easily be an indirect reference to Espcially Towns saying stuff but not really doing the things defensively he needs to do.

JVG led with saying emphatically the Wolves just traded for their best player period. It's very tough to argue with that and yes this team should be much betterthis year just adding Butler. He is a better player than anyone they had on the roster last year probably by healthy margin yes even Towns.

It was a great interview. I listened to it twice. I've always liked JVG. He speaks his mind and has a great personality. Listening to him reminded me of why I wanted to hire him over Thibs. I thought his personality and humor would connect better with the players and fans. But JVG thinks very highly of Thibs as a coach. I loved when JVG said that "Thibs isn't the most huggable dude". He went on to say something to the effect that the Wolves players don't need hugs, they need prodding and need to be driven. I wish he were our GM instead of Layden.

Anyway, JVG made some great points about how Butler will help this team. But he also said there's a lot that still needs to be done with the team. I agree that when JVG said it's easy to conn the media, but you can't conn coaches and your teammates, he was referring to Towns and Wiggins, especially Towns. He really went off on KAT's poor P&R defense. But he also mentioned that poor defense is often just part of being young.

Dan B also intererviewed a Chicago sports reporter who knows Butler and Thibs really well. He talked about how hard Butler was on the younger players and that he had something called "Butler's Bootcamp" that the younger Bulls' players attended. Apparently, it was really tough. The players stayed in some shack -- no TV or communication -- all basketball all the time, getting up at 5 a.m.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1581665

For those here who love drama and the human condition, I can't recommend more highly the 68 pages on the Bulls RealGM board lamenting the trade...it's pure gold! Here are the stages of grief they went through:

1) OMG, we're trading Butler for Dunn, Zach and #7...what a disaster. Well, at least there may be good players available at 7 and 16, but it's still a terrible idea.

2) What, we gave up 16 too...that can't possibly be true. Show me some proof!!!!

3) Oh fuck...we gave up 16 too. I'm now officially no longer a Bulls fan.

4) But maybe we really like Isaac, and he drops to 7. Anything but that unathletic Finn.

5) We drafted Markkenen? You gotta be kidding...please keep me away from any open windows!

I bailed after page 16, but I may finish up later. More evidence that we fleeced them...you will actually feel sorry for Chicago after reading this!

Great post LST, made me LOL

I love it. Thanks for posting. Honestly, Bulls fans are way overreacting. I heard Sam Mitchell today say he thinks it's a good deal for both teams. He mentioned that he has actually coached LaVine (we know that) and he said Zach has as much upside as Wiggins or Towns. I don't disagree. The Bulls needed to rebuild because they were no better than an 8th seed with Butler as their best player and they had no chance of landing an elite free agent to join him. Boston wasn't interested in Butler and Cleveland didn't have any assets the Bulls would want to start a rebuild. Under those circumstances, Bulls fans should be elated with what they got.

I'm still surprised and disappointed we didn't get the 38th pick as well, knowing now that the Bulls sold it to GS or $3 million cash. GS got Jordan Bell with that pick. He would have been great for us. Thibs said the Wolves were trying hard to buy their way into the 2nd round. Then why in the hell didn't you offer $3 million and insiste that they include #38??

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:JVG was on Barreiro today. The biggest thing that stuck out was when Dan said that the young guys got along great and now Butler comes in and how would that all play out. JVG said he doesn't know if those guys got along well off the court or had great chemistry off the court but he said they didn't on the court. They didn't make each other better. They didn't make winning plays. He said he hopes there is some conflict because you need some of that. He said Butler had to work his way up he wasn't a #1 overall pick. I have to agree with him.

Another thing he said that was interesting that Dan fleshed out was he mentioned how media can be fooled by what players coaches say but players and coaches aren't fooled. He said guys have to actually do the right things and commit to it. Dan thought that could easily be an indirect reference to Espcially Towns saying stuff but not really doing the things defensively he needs to do.

JVG led with saying emphatically the Wolves just traded for their best player period. It's very tough to argue with that and yes this team should be much betterthis year just adding Butler. He is a better player than anyone they had on the roster last year probably by healthy margin yes even Towns.

It was a great interview. I listened to it twice. I've always liked JVG. He speaks his mind and has a great personality. Listening to him reminded me of why I wanted to hire him over Thibs. I thought his personality and humor would connect better with the players and fans. But JVG thinks very highly of Thibs as a coach. I loved when JVG said that "Thibs isn't the most huggable dude". He went on to say something to the effect that the Wolves players don't need hugs, they need prodding and need to be driven. I wish he were our GM instead of Layden.

Anyway, JVG made some great points about how Butler will help this team. But he also said there's a lot that still needs to be done with the team. I agree that when JVG said it's easy to conn the media, but you can't conn coaches and your teammates, he was referring to Towns and Wiggins, especially Towns. He really went off on KAT's poor P&R defense. But he also mentioned that poor defense is often just part of being young.

Dan B also intererviewed a Chicago sports reporter who knows Butler and Thibs really well. He talked about how hard Butler was on the younger players and that he had something called "Butler's Bootcamp" that the younger Bulls' players attended. Apparently, it was really tough. The players stayed in some shack -- no TV or communication -- all basketball all the time, getting up at 5 a.m.

Who would have ever guessed that JVG would be such a engaging guy? Thibs isn't an exciting media dude but he comes on these spots (listened to 2 of them yesterday) is thoughtful has a couple laughs is very respectful and does what you would expect. Layden might be even more boring than Thibs! It comes down to whether these guys are making the right decisions about basketball and also leading the team. Dan's show was very interesting yesterday.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1581665

For those here who love drama and the human condition, I can't recommend more highly the 68 pages on the Bulls RealGM board lamenting the trade...it's pure gold! Here are the stages of grief they went through:

1) OMG, we're trading Butler for Dunn, Zach and #7...what a disaster. Well, at least there may be good players available at 7 and 16, but it's still a terrible idea.

2) What, we gave up 16 too...that can't possibly be true. Show me some proof!!!!

3) Oh fuck...we gave up 16 too. I'm now officially no longer a Bulls fan.

4) But maybe we really like Isaac, and he drops to 7. Anything but that unathletic Finn.

5) We drafted Markkenen? You gotta be kidding...please keep me away from any open windows!

I bailed after page 16, but I may finish up later. More evidence that we fleeced them...you will actually feel sorry for Chicago after reading this!

The hilarious thing was Inwas on ththe ledge for about 15 minutes after learning of this trade. Fans are funny aren't we? Lol

It's human nature, monster. We invest so much time and energy as fans into players we love, it's painful to see them go away. Zach was universally loved in Minnesota, and I have to admit my first thought upon hearing the deal was "Oh no...Zach's gone". But objectivity follows emotion, and the strong national opinions about how good this deal is for the Wolves makes losing Zach much easier for me. I can't help the Bulls' fans with their pain though!

I like the trade, but some of the national press has been hyperbolic. I mean, a couple of respected publications (including the WSJ) talked about the Wolves eventually being a Golden State killer. Paahhhleeeassseeee! Not happening. Golden State is the greatest team ever assembled and it's highly unlikely that the circumstances that led to that team being formed ever happens again.

I must say though, it feels good to be on the plus side of all these press reports, but it's not as cut and dried as folks make it out to be. Dunn and LaVine could still turn out to be terrific players and Minnesota has a lot of holes to fill, not the least of which is getting KAT and Wiggins to play defense. That is more important than almost any other inorganic move we make this summer.

Q12543 wrote:I like the trade, but some of the national press has been hyperbolic. I mean, a couple of respected publications (including the WSJ) talked about the Wolves eventually being a Golden State killer. Paahhhleeeassseeee! Not happening. Golden State is the greatest team ever assembled and it's highly unlikely that the circumstances that led to that team being formed ever happens again.

I must say though, it feels good to be on the plus side of all these press reports, but it's not as cut and dried as folks make it out to be. Dunn and LaVine could still turn out to be terrific players and Minnesota has a lot of holes to fill, not the least of which is getting KAT and Wiggins to play defense. That is more important than almost any other inorganic move we make this summer.

I would like to put on my super Homer glasses for a second and just say that constructing a team with Elite 2 way wing players and the most devastating offensive Center in the league isn't the worst way to take down the Warriors. Towns is such a mismatch for them I could see him putting up the kind of dominant performance that Hibbert did against Miami in the playoffs a few years back, it is huge weakpopint for Golden State

Q12543 wrote:I like the trade, but some of the national press has been hyperbolic. I mean, a couple of respected publications (including the WSJ) talked about the Wolves eventually being a Golden State killer. Paahhhleeeassseeee! Not happening. Golden State is the greatest team ever assembled and it's highly unlikely that the circumstances that led to that team being formed ever happens again.

I must say though, it feels good to be on the plus side of all these press reports, but it's not as cut and dried as folks make it out to be. Dunn and LaVine could still turn out to be terrific players and Minnesota has a lot of holes to fill, not the least of which is getting KAT and Wiggins to play defense. That is more important than almost any other inorganic move we make this summer.

I agree Q.

Let's see how they fill out this roster. If they can add a couple legit rotation vets that fit and find a hidden gem this team could certainly be interesting. I'm curious about them finding some young players to put at the end of the bench and in the D-league. That's going to be even more important as time goes on and every team will have the G-league to at least have more opportunity to develop talent

IF this deal works out we may need to thank the Cavs again for helping us out. FWIW chicago writer Jim Crowley that was on Barreiro said David Griffin was working on a Butler trade and once he was let go...those talks dried up. He said Butler was getting contacts from Lebron and other guys about coming to Cleveland and he was interested but when Griffin got let go that put things in a flux. That's the explanation for the conflicting reports. Sure maybe the Cavs couldn't have put together a deal for Butler that would have been good enough but David Griffin had worked some magic before. It really was a bizarre move and Billups is taking his time deciding on whether to take the job. I don't blame him. I still don't really understand why they let Griffin go. I heard it was about money. That seems kinda insane unless Griffin was asking for like 10 million a year or something. Gilbert doesn't come off looking very good when the perseption is he basically screwed Griffin out of a chance at other jobs and in general let go of a guy that did a good job and it was reported teams were really wanting him.