Minnesota Sports Forum

Towns is a great prospect but this year Embid has been the superior player. As I see it Towns is the 4th best big at present behind Embid, Davis, and Gobert.

Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

I find the Simmons + Wiggins comparison interesting, too. Because they are such disparate types of players. Simmons literally can't shoot. He looks terrible shooting. But he does so many other things to add value.

Wiggins looks all-world at times and conceivably looks like he can do everything well at times. But in the end, he's basically just a scorer (compared to most other promising young players).

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Towns and Embiid play the same position. Shouldn't the comp be Simmons vs Teague?

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Towns and Embiid play the same position. Shouldn't the comp be Simmons vs Teague?

Not necessarily. Especially in this era of position-less basketball. Especially as we compare star players of the future.

When these guys are allegedly franchise-changing talents... that's how they should be judged. And that's who they should be judged against.

For example, comparing Wiggins to Redick does nothing for me. Even Wiggins to Covington does nothing.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Towns and Embiid play the same position. Shouldn't the comp be Simmons vs Teague?

Not necessarily. Especially in this era of position-less basketball. Especially as we compare star players of the future.

When these guys are allegedly franchise-changing talents... that's how they should be judged. And that's who they should be judged against.

For example, comparing Wiggins to Redick does nothing for me. Even Wiggins to Covington does nothing.

Neither you nor Cam consider Wiggins a star player of the future, much less a franchise changing talent. So I fail to see why you would compare him to Simmons.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Towns and Embiid play the same position. Shouldn't the comp be Simmons vs Teague?

Not necessarily. Especially in this era of position-less basketball. Especially as we compare star players of the future.

When these guys are allegedly franchise-changing talents... that's how they should be judged. And that's who they should be judged against.

For example, comparing Wiggins to Redick does nothing for me. Even Wiggins to Covington does nothing.

Neither you nor Cam consider Wiggins a star player of the future, much less a franchise changing talent. So I fail to see why you would compare him to Simmons.

Huh?

That's the only way we should be comparing him. We have to. He's about to be a max contract player and his improvement is critical to the Wolves long-term success. He's not close to a star yet by most metrics... but we're all holding out hope. And there are glimmers of hope.

So even in that context... comparing him to guys like Covington and Redick means the Wolves are in trouble. I don't want Wiggins to be at their level. I want him to be among the very best players in the league.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Towns and Embiid play the same position. Shouldn't the comp be Simmons vs Teague?

Not necessarily. Especially in this era of position-less basketball. Especially as we compare star players of the future.

When these guys are allegedly franchise-changing talents... that's how they should be judged. And that's who they should be judged against.

For example, comparing Wiggins to Redick does nothing for me. Even Wiggins to Covington does nothing.

Neither you nor Cam consider Wiggins a star player of the future, much less a franchise changing talent. So I fail to see why you would compare him to Simmons.

Huh?

That's the only way we should be comparing him. We have to. He's about to be a max contract player and his improvement is critical to the Wolves long-term success. He's not close to a star yet by most metrics... but we're all holding out hope. And there are glimmers of hope.

So even in that context... comparing him to guys like Covington and Redick means the Wolves are in trouble. I don't want Wiggins to be at their level. I want him to be among the very best players in the league.

Maybe I erred in including you with Cam and some others in that regard. If you still have legitimate hope like I do, I can see your point. But not all of us are holding out hope. Many have deemed him at or near his ceiling with no chance of reaching that star quality. I don't need to hear guys who share that opinion compare him to guys like Simmons. If Doper or Kekgeek want to make that comparison I'm all ears.

I think it's fine to compare any player to any player. I was only comparing KAT to Embid because they seem to compare themselves to eachother, and as of today Embid clearly has the edge. I like Simmons a lot, but if he doesn't develop a jump shot Philly will never be able to reach their full potential, plus having two stars who have missed 4 seasons of play due to injury between the two of them scares me. Simmons may end up being much better than Wiggins, but Simmons could end up being the best player in the league if he develops a jumper so that really doesn't bother me. Wiggins just needs to keep improving in all aspects of his game to earn that contract. His D has been so much better this year, so for now I'm satisfied but want more because there is clearly so much potential.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:Opinions aside, it's interesting how we're discussing Towns vs. Embiid and not Wiggins vs. Simmons. Unfortunately for us, the latter comparison is lopsided in Philadelphia's favor. Embiid is quite a talent, but it's Simmons that makes that team go.

Towns and Embiid play the same position. Shouldn't the comp be Simmons vs Teague?

Not necessarily. Especially in this era of position-less basketball. Especially as we compare star players of the future.

When these guys are allegedly franchise-changing talents... that's how they should be judged. And that's who they should be judged against.

For example, comparing Wiggins to Redick does nothing for me. Even Wiggins to Covington does nothing.

Neither you nor Cam consider Wiggins a star player of the future, much less a franchise changing talent. So I fail to see why you would compare him to Simmons.

Huh?

That's the only way we should be comparing him. We have to. He's about to be a max contract player and his improvement is critical to the Wolves long-term success. He's not close to a star yet by most metrics... but we're all holding out hope. And there are glimmers of hope.

So even in that context... comparing him to guys like Covington and Redick means the Wolves are in trouble. I don't want Wiggins to be at their level. I want him to be among the very best players in the league.

Maybe I erred in including you with Cam and some others in that regard. If you still have legitimate hope like I do, I can see your point. But not all of us are holding out hope. Many have deemed him at or near his ceiling with no chance of reaching that star quality. I don't need to hear guys who share that opinion compare him to guys like Simmons. If Doper or Kekgeek want to make that comparison I'm all ears.

I am with Abe on this one. I think you can compare any player to any player. Simmons and Wiggins will both make the Max and are going to be a top 3 player on their respective teams if they ever make a legitimate run at a title. I won't debate if anyone would take Simmons over Wiggins. Or take any of Davis/Embiid/Gobert over Towns. I think debates can be made that can be argued either way. If I had to pick I would probably take Simmons over Wiggins. Just because I feel like Wiggins has to many my shot is not falling and I contribute nothing else in the game (what is becoming less and less lately though). Simmons is like a Ricky Rubio on steroids. The one big difference is though that Simmons is a beast at finishing at the rim. I am very curious on how teams guard him in the playoffs because unlike Rubio and Tony Allen, if they play off of Simmons, Simmons still has the ability to take it to the rake and score unlike the other two.

My big argument that I keep by on Wiggins is. Even though he has been super frustrating and inconsistent for most of his career. He has shown enough flashes to hope he can develop into the max player he is going to get paid at. I just believe that Wiggins ceiling is so much higher than players like Porter/Middleton/Crowder/Covington. And even though those player in theory could be a better fit for the wolves, I don't think adding any of those players takes us from a 2nd tier west team to a top tier west team and competing for a championship. So I will gamble on the 5-10% wiggins figures it out because if he does figure it out, I believe we could compete for a championship even though those % is small, I think the % is 0 if we traded Wiggins for a player that I named above. Because I don't believe those guys ceilings gets us there.

I would not complain if we traded Wiggins for legit all star talent. If we traded him for Butler this offseason I would not of been mad. They wouldn't do it but I would not be mad if they Traded Wiggins for Simmons. In the end though for us to become title contenders we need Wiggins to hit the potential, Kat has to get better and realistically we need to hit on a draft pick to become an above average starter. And at this point Thibs has gotten an F on his drafting of Dunn and Patton even though those results can fluctuate year to year.