Minnesota Sports Forum

The Spurs have come back and won, we're a Nuggets loss away from clinching a spot!

Andrew Wiggins' last five games:

12.4 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 3.2 APG, 28-85 (32.9%) from the floor, 3-13 (23.1%) from 3P, and a grand total of five free throw attempts.

He's been active, sure, but he has not been good lately.

Camden wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Our young prodigy Wiggy has really showed up the last week. What a loser! Well I apologize, Butler is back, we know that really effects Wiggy's Game. Cool your thoughts?

You know he is defending and filling up the box score more than he's ever been, right? Or is offense your only concern? Or do you enjoy harping on wiggins because you don't like him? Because you can hate every player if all you do is look for flaws and mistakes.

I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?

I just think theres a double standard to him. I dont think anyone is calling him a superstar,yet. He's been really poor shooting the ball, especially recently. But, I think some of that can be attributed to more effort on the defensive side and running out of gas. I dont think theres a player in the league that has logged more minutes the past 3 or 4 years. He doesnt foul out. He doesnt get injured. So, basically the only rest he gets is on days off. And I think that takes a heavy toll on the body; young or not.

people are still calling him the worst defensive player in the league because thats the narrative. And when he does defend, its mostly a backhanded comment about why he doesnt do it more often. Much like Rubio, I dont think he gets a fair shake.

fuck.....win or go home Wednesday night

God i hate excuses of he was too tired on offense cause he was playing defense. Wiggins has played like shit as we try to make this run for the playoffs. Not what you want to see out of a max contract guy. If we can deal him as the centerpiece in a leonard deal that would be awesome.

Oh by the way rubio and his much less talented team has clinched.

crazy-canuck wrote:

Camden wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Our young prodigy Wiggy has really showed up the last week. What a loser! Well I apologize, Butler is back, we know that really effects Wiggy's Game. Cool your thoughts?

You know he is defending and filling up the box score more than he's ever been, right? Or is offense your only concern? Or do you enjoy harping on wiggins because you don't like him? Because you can hate every player if all you do is look for flaws and mistakes.

I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?

I just think theres a double standard to him. I dont think anyone is calling him a superstar,yet. He's been really poor shooting the ball, especially recently. But, I think some of that can be attributed to more effort on the defensive side and running out of gas. I dont think theres a player in the league that has logged more minutes the past 3 or 4 years. He doesnt foul out. He doesnt get injured. So, basically the only rest he gets is on days off. And I think that takes a heavy toll on the body; young or not.

people are still calling him the worst defensive player in the league because thats the narrative. And when he does defend, its mostly a backhanded comment about why he doesnt do it more often. Much like Rubio, I dont think he gets a fair shake.

I think it's extremely fair on Wiggins because those are the expectations of a max player, fair or not. This is what he gets paid big bucks to do. I don't get why people here handle him with kid gloves. Not even just here, but on NBATV, TNT, ESPN, it's always them coddling Wiggins. With these amount of people making excuses for him, he has no incentive to ever get better.


There's an easy ass solution to all the minutes he logs: stop playing him so damn much, especially when he has these stretches where he hurts the team. If he had getting yanked earlier in his career for playing like crap at times, maybe the light bulb would have gone off for him by now. The truth is, this franchise has done nothing to hold him accountable for anything he's ever done wrong, and that breeds the bad habits he has now. I don't even blame Wiggins for not living up to expectations. What's the penalty for it? A $30 mil a year extension? It's gotten him this far.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Camden wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Our young prodigy Wiggy has really showed up the last week. What a loser! Well I apologize, Butler is back, we know that really effects Wiggy's Game. Cool your thoughts?

You know he is defending and filling up the box score more than he's ever been, right? Or is offense your only concern? Or do you enjoy harping on wiggins because you don't like him? Because you can hate every player if all you do is look for flaws and mistakes.

I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?

I just think theres a double standard to him. I dont think anyone is calling him a superstar,yet. He's been really poor shooting the ball, especially recently. But, I think some of that can be attributed to more effort on the defensive side and running out of gas. I dont think theres a player in the league that has logged more minutes the past 3 or 4 years. He doesnt foul out. He doesnt get injured. So, basically the only rest he gets is on days off. And I think that takes a heavy toll on the body; young or not.

people are still calling him the worst defensive player in the league because thats the narrative. And when he does defend, its mostly a backhanded comment about why he doesnt do it more often. Much like Rubio, I dont think he gets a fair shake.

I think it's extremely fair on Wiggins because those are the expectations of a max player, fair or not. This is what he gets paid big bucks to do. I don't get why people here handle him with kid gloves. Not even just here, but on NBATV, TNT, ESPN, it's always them coddling Wiggins. With these amount of people making excuses for him, he has no incentive to ever get better.


There's an easy ass solution to all the minutes he logs: stop playing him so damn much, especially when he has these stretches where he hurts the team. If he had getting yanked earlier in his career for playing like crap at times, maybe the light bulb would have gone off for him by now. The truth is, this franchise has done nothing to hold him accountable for anything he's ever done wrong, and that breeds the bad habits he has now. I don't even blame Wiggins for not living up to expectations. What's the penalty for it? A $30 mil a year extension? It's gotten him this far.

Actually, if there is a double standard applied to Wiggins, I think it operates in his favor. He plays some good one-on-one defense and gets more than his season average 4.3 rebounds and he gets bathed in praise - myself included. Putting his upcoming max contract and physical gifts aside, it's more than fair to expect better than 3-12 shooting and only 1 trip to the line against the B-squad of a bottom five team. Put tonight together with a growing string of downright horrible offensive performances and he's definitely deserving of major criticism. Yes, his defensive has improved this season - at least according to my eye test. But he did not do a very good job of staying in front of his man tonight, and did not give the effort needed to fight through screens. And his off-ball defensive is still subpar from my standpoint. I'll give him credit for improving his defense and rebounding, but he needs to produce a lot more on a far more consistent basis to avoid being regularly vulnerable to well-deserved criticism.

I'm still hoping for a breakout 5th season from Wiggins next year similarl to Oladipo's 5th season this year. Does he have the heart to do it? I'm not sure. I'm actually more worried about whether he has the hands and handle. To be fair to Wiggins, I think his biggest problem getting to the hole and drawing fouls this season is his handle and the fact that the entire League is now completely aware of and prepared to take advantage of Andrew's poor handle. That's something that's not fixable at this stage of his career in my view.

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Camden wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Duke13 wrote:Our young prodigy Wiggy has really showed up the last week. What a loser! Well I apologize, Butler is back, we know that really effects Wiggy's Game. Cool your thoughts?

You know he is defending and filling up the box score more than he's ever been, right? Or is offense your only concern? Or do you enjoy harping on wiggins because you don't like him? Because you can hate every player if all you do is look for flaws and mistakes.

I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?

I just think theres a double standard to him. I dont think anyone is calling him a superstar,yet. He's been really poor shooting the ball, especially recently. But, I think some of that can be attributed to more effort on the defensive side and running out of gas. I dont think theres a player in the league that has logged more minutes the past 3 or 4 years. He doesnt foul out. He doesnt get injured. So, basically the only rest he gets is on days off. And I think that takes a heavy toll on the body; young or not.

people are still calling him the worst defensive player in the league because thats the narrative. And when he does defend, its mostly a backhanded comment about why he doesnt do it more often. Much like Rubio, I dont think he gets a fair shake.

I think it's extremely fair on Wiggins because those are the expectations of a max player, fair or not. This is what he gets paid big bucks to do. I don't get why people here handle him with kid gloves. Not even just here, but on NBATV, TNT, ESPN, it's always them coddling Wiggins. With these amount of people making excuses for him, he has no incentive to ever get better.


There's an easy ass solution to all the minutes he logs: stop playing him so damn much, especially when he has these stretches where he hurts the team. If he had getting yanked earlier in his career for playing like crap at times, maybe the light bulb would have gone off for him by now. The truth is, this franchise has done nothing to hold him accountable for anything he's ever done wrong, and that breeds the bad habits he has now. I don't even blame Wiggins for not living up to expectations. What's the penalty for it? A $30 mil a year extension? It's gotten him this far.

Actually, if there is a double standard applied to Wiggins, I think it operates in his favor. He plays some good one-on-one defense and gets more than his season average 4.3 rebounds and he gets bathed in praise - myself included. Putting his upcoming max contract and physical gifts aside, it's more than fair to expect better than 3-12 shooting and only 1 trip to the line against the B-squad of a bottom five team. Put tonight together with a growing string of downright horrible offensive performances and he's definitely deserving of major criticism. Yes, his defensive has improved this season - at least according to my eye test. But he did not do a very good job of staying in front of his man tonight, and did not give the effort needed to fight through screens. And his off-ball defensive is still subpar from my standpoint. I'll give him credit for improving his defense and rebounding, but he needs to produce a lot more on a far more consistent basis to avoid being regularly vulnerable to well-deserved criticism.

I'm still hoping for a breakout 5th season from Wiggins next year similarl to Oladipo's 5th season this year. Does he have the heart to do it? I'm not sure. I'm actually more worried about whether he has the hands and handle. To be fair to Wiggins, I think his biggest problem getting to the hole and drawing fouls this season is his handle and the fact that the entire League is now completely aware of and prepared to take advantage of Andrew's poor handle. That's something that's not fixable at this stage of his career in my view.

I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.

To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Camden wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

Duke13 wrote:

s.

I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?

I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.

To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.

To be fair...

43.7% fg. (Career low. League average - 46.0%)
32.7% 3fg (League average - 36.2%)
His PER is a career low 13.0. (League average - 15.0)
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 46th in rebounds... behind mostly PGs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 53rd in assists... behind mostly Cs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 36th in points. And that's been his #1 asset for years.

--- and I think virtually everybody on this forum has noticed a more consistent, better defensive Wiggins this season. Stats be damned. But let's look at those stats for fun anyway.

Wiggins has been on the court for 75% of the minutes that the league's 27th ranked defense has played this season. His Defensive Plus/Minus (ESPN) ranks him 80th out of 90 small forwards.

He has a -1.2 OBPM. -1.4 DBPM. -0.5 VORP. He's at a career worst for WinShares despite being on the most successful team of his career and winning 50% more games than any other season.

Now granted... there's the eye test too. But shouldn't there be at least ONE statistic that shows that Wiggins excels at something? After all, it's a stat-based field he's playing. So... stats do matter.

He's not abject terrible at anything. But what is he superior at?