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Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:14 am
by kekgeek
lipoli390 wrote:Camden wrote:"The Wolves are finally winning, but they're not winning how I want them to win!"
Obviously, I recognize the arguments that are being made by some insightful posters in this forum. And the above quote is just me poking fun, but the point I keep making is that the wins continue to be there for a franchise that never wins. This isn't even a year where we're expected to be a contender either. This season was about making the playoffs and ending the drought, which we are unquestionably going to do assuming we don't get hit by an injury storm.
Thibs' style might be ugly. It might be hard for you to watch. It might go against everything that people on the outside want. But as long as the team is still adding to the win column like they are, it doesn't really matter. Who are we to say it's wrong when it keeps working?
I think another thing that we need to keep in mind is that this isn't the end result. They are clearly still jelling on offense with all the scorers learning how to play off of each other. Prior to this season, Teague, Butler, and Wiggins were ball dominant scorers for their respective teams. Now they're all on one team with one ball. The good thing is that they're already one of the better scoring teams in the league on talent alone. The better thing is that they don't even fully know how to play as a cohesive unit, which leaves room for upside.
We're still a productive wing away from really making noise, but we're toying around with a 3-5 seed this year. Why can't we enjoy that? Why must every game be an "I told you so" about Thibodeau? I've fallen in the trap too, but it removes some of the fun from the win.
All good points, Cam. I'll quibble with you on only one point. I didn't see this season as being just about making the playoffs -- not after acquiring Butler, Taj and Teague in addition to a full season for KAT, Wiggins and others under Thibs. Many of us thought we should be a top 3 or 4 team in the West. The good news is that we are. So you make an excellent point. I'm worried about the sustainablility of our success over the full season given the flaws I see in how we're playing.
I think your point is fair. Just think some of the frustration that comes from me and cam is that we just beat a team by 17 all be it a bad team but all the talk is about Thibs style of play. Even though we have the 5th best offensive rating in the NBA and on pace for 51 wins
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:24 am
by SameOldNudityDrew
I don't want to get into this whole discussion again, but the point the TNT guys were making tonight (that we need to push the pace) is connected to the minutes issue we've discussed.
Reducing the starters' minutes would help keep their legs fresher for pushing the pace. And arguably, the fact that most of our starters don't usually push the pace right now may be the result of playing them so many minutes. Using more bench guys keeps fresh legs out there and guys like Tyus and giving Bazz like to push the pace in general.
The other thing the crew pointed out tonight that we haven't discussed is the need for more ball movement and off-the-ball movement offensively. It's been obvious all year, but we shouldn't overlook the obvious. When we do set up the offense, too often it looks like designed iso plays.
But yeah, we're winning basketball games. I'm excited about the possibility of being a better team if we can improve in these ways.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:55 am
by Coolbreeze44
The TNT guys know what they're talking about. Of course we need to speed up and push the ball far more often than we're doing now. We score even easier when we do that. But it has to start with Teague and Butler. They are the principal players who are driving our pace right now. Have you noticed when Tyus is in there the pace picks up? Teague and Butler have to stop dribbling the air out of the ball and move it. Move it up the court and move it to the open man. This team can be so much better than it is right now.
This is our best team in how many years? And yet I can think of a half dozen teams i enjoyed watching play more. It's just ugly basketball, and let's not kid ourselves, our record is much better than how we've actually played. The wins are great but we haven't banked nearly as many as we should have. Eventually that is going to catch up. Get out of the '90's and push the damn ball.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:24 am
by Duke13
kekgeek1 wrote:Duke13 wrote:You can keep saying that Cam, and I hear you, you this team any nothing to do with the team which traded KG for Gomes, Big Al and Banks. This team has nothing to do with the teams Kevin Love played on. I get it's nice has fans to have a winner but by acquiring Butler the expectation changed over night.
We are a team that's built to win now. Our cap situation would say that along with our POBO and coach. So my opinion of this team has nothing to do with the last 15 years.
So are you saying this is a championship or bust season?
Also out cap would have been similar with lavine up for an extension also.
No I don't, we can argue about this ad nauseam. I disagree with evaluating this team in the basis that we haven't made the playoffs in 15 years, and having the mindset of being thankful of being relevant. I can go on but I'd be repeating myself and what a lot of others have said.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:32 am
by Duke13
I really enjoyed the telecast tonight. That crew obviously knows basketball, but I don't think that crew of chuck, shaq and Kenny sit and watch wolves games religiously, like some others may. So I thought it was great how they picked apart our team and were very blunt about there opinions. I happened to agree with everything they said, some may not. I don't always find them insightful, but tonight I thought they were great.
I don't claim to be an analytics expert, they seem to think analytics only equates increase emphasis on 3 pt shooting, it's obviously more then that.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:38 am
by Wolvesfan21
When they play the Barkley Prevent Offense it many times results in running the clock down to 5 seconds or less and taking a bad shot. They should be pushing and using the clock to create a good shot early.
The offense could be better then it is now. Plus that also puts pressure on the other team having to defend and not get to rest. A good offense does set up your defense. A slow offense puts your defense in a pickle by giving the other team fresh legs.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:13 am
by Monster
Just finished watching this game. I'll do some thoughts before getting through this thread.
I had to mute the TNT guys like halfway through the 1st quarter. It was complaining about no 3's wanting the Wolves to push the ball but post up all the time. They didn't really seem to have done any homework on the actual team just watched a couple games and made some conclusions. It was a joke all the way around.
Basically this was a game where the Wolves were the better team and showed it in the end. They tend to grind out these games. I'll take the win.
One issue with the way they play ball is they often aren't used to getting the ball up in fast break translation plays and they botch them. Teague also was far from accurate on a few passes tonight. If they convert 75% of those easy plays this one is a laugher.
Towns was pretty good in this game. Butler was terrific.
In the first half Teague had a few pretty good defensive possessions including a couple in transition.
It's fun when Crawford can be used as a floor spacer instead of being the guy with the ball. Tyus had a solid game.
Wiggins had some nice passes.
Dieng was his usual mixed bag but his defense later in the game on Kuzma who can really play was surprisingly pretty good.
Belly was back and he was a bit rusty but I'm glad to see him out there and he looks healthy.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:34 am
by Monster
I'm glad Thibs is coaching this team I guess. This team shot 58% from the field shot 32 threes and had 30 assists and people are complaining about offense?
Those morons on TNT were going on and on and on about don't shoot 3's get in the post. Stupid. Why would you put Towns in the post against Bogut who is still a good defender down there? Let Towns shoot 50 3's on Bogut if he basically leaves him open. I'm not suggesting don't post up but take the mismatches that are out there. It's not like Taj doesn't school people down low or anything.
This seems like the perfect thing to have a link to after this broadcast.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2016/12/29/14115482/marshall-basketball-analytics-dan-dantoni-shut-down-reporter
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:37 am
by Lipoli390
CoolBreeze44 wrote:The TNT guys know what they're talking about. Of course we need to speed up and push the ball far more often than we're doing now. We score even easier when we do that. But it has to start with Teague and Butler. They are the principal players who are driving our pace right now. Have you noticed when Tyus is in there the pace picks up? Teague and Butler have to stop dribbling the air out of the ball and move it. Move it up the court and move it to the open man. This team can be so much better than it is right now.
This is our best team in how many years? And yet I can think of a half dozen teams i enjoyed watching play more. It's just ugly basketball, and let's not kid ourselves, our record is much better than how we've actually played. The wins are great but we haven't banked nearly as many as we should have. Eventually that is going to catch up. Get out of the '90's and push the damn ball.
I agree completely. Good point about Teague and Butler, but I'm far more troubled by Teague for a couple reasons. First, he's our PG, which means it's his job to organize and facilitate the offense. Second, Butler's our true go-to isolation scorer, which means to me that he gets more license to dribble a bit more looking for his shot.
You're absolutely right that the pace of our offense picks up considerable when Tyus is in the game. That's been true every single game I've see this season. The pace picks up and there is far more ball movement. I loved the way we played in the 4th quarter last night when we had Tyus, Jamaal, Gorgui, and KAT on the floor. Jamaal is an iso gunner, but he makes fairly quick decisions with the ball and he dribbles with purpose.
Re: The Lake Show vs the Wolves GDT
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:46 am
by Wolvesfan21
monsterpile wrote:I'm glad Thibs is coaching this team I guess. This team shot 58% from the field shot 32 threes and had 30 assists and people are complaining about offense?
Those morons on TNT were going on and on and on about don't shoot 3's get in the post. Stupid. Why would you put Towns in the post against Bogut who is still a good defender down there? Let Towns shoot 50 3's on Bogut if he basically leaves him open. I'm not suggesting don't post up but take the mismatches that are out there. It's not like Taj doesn't school people down low or anything.
This seems like the perfect thing to have a link to after this broadcast.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2016/12/29/14115482/marshall-basketball-analytics-dan-dantoni-shut-down-reporter
You're right about Towns taking 3's. I'm happy if he takes as many as he wants. He shoots a good percentage.
Of course it depends on who is guarding him too, I mean, he can't be stopped down low either against smaller guys. But many nights, the big is often times taller and bigger then Towns. Stretching them out is great.
But at the same time, the slow offense is annoying, and many times results in late shot jack ups. The offense could be better if they pushed it, like when Tyus is in the game. Why not try and get an easy layup or wide open corner three?
Just letting the defense set up all the time is annoying. They also said Wiggins is made for fast transition game, that is true as well. Wiggins game is the best when he is driving and finishing around the hoop. His weakness is in set offense.