Minnesota Sports Forum

Wile E Coyote wrote:Good list. I made a few comments but your point stands.

Camden wrote:Prominent NBA SG/SF's under 30-years old:

K. Durant (great but there are a lot of miles on those 28 year old tires)
J. Harden (playing PG)
J. Butler (yah he's good)
K. Leonard (he doesn't count he is a cyborg)
P. George (mentioned him)
K. Thompson (mentioned him)
G. Antetokounmpo (playing PG)
D. DeRozan (yah he's good - can't shoot the 3 though)
G. Hayward (yah he's good)
C. McCollum (mentioned him)
A. Bradley (good but often hurt)
T. Harris (plays a lot of PF)
E. Fournier (meh)
E. Gordon (OK but often hurt - playing well so far this year)
D. Russell (PG?)
D. Booker (good - possibly worse D than our wings?)
B. Beal (good but often hurt)
R. Hood (good - can't dribble? at least he can't in 2K)
O. Porter (OK)

My overall thought was that you listed 19 guys (not all of whom even play wing right now). Across 30 teams and 2 positions (SG/SF), that is 60 starters in the league. 19 out of 60 being pretty good is not a lot of wing talent. I was just saying we should hang onto our two if possible.

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Even tough Harden and Greek Freak are playing PG in offense, they defend wings and are defended by opponent wing, so they should be counted to this list. I would add also Oladipo, Batum, Middleton, Harrison Barnes, TJ Warren, Joe Crowder and maybe Caldwell-Pope as well. At least I would take them before Fournier. Currently there is still more wing talent than talent in big men. Especially there is lack of talent in power forward position. Similar list for that would have only: Davis, Porzingis, Griffin, Draymond Green, Love, Parker, Ibaka, Favors and Randle.

I don't think we talk enough about where Lavine is right now offensively compared to what was expected when he came out as a freshman playing as a backup for a UCLA team (although that team was pretty talented). Over 20ppg in a lot of minutes but doing it pretty efficiently. He's now played in 186 NBA games and turns 22 in March. Considering the coaching changes and all that I think you have to give Lavine a healthy chunk of credit for becoming the player he has become today. A lot of others I am sure deserve credit as well but man that guy has really come along as an NBA player. You can rip Flip for some stuff but man drafting Lavine was a hell of a move and seemed like a ballsy pick at the time. It probably won't play out this way because Flip had his hand in other moves but I think Lavine is as much his legacy right now as anyone on the team.

Here is a comparison how Zach is doing compared to some other premium shooting guards in past:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id1_select=Zach+LaVine&player_id1=lavinza01&y1=2017&hint=Ray+Allen&player_id2_select=Ray+Allen&player_id2=allenra02&y2=1998&hint=Klay+Thompson&playeZach vs. other shooters

I took 2nd year from other players since Zach was much younger as a rookie than anyone else. Zach is in fact one or two years younger than anyone else in this comparison.

I like your posts, monster and mikkeman. I agree with monster that Zach at 21 is far ahead of the player I thought he would be when I watched him struggle at UCLA. Just an extraordinary pick by Flip that shows the value of workouts over video...Zach doesn't go in the lottery without workouts.

And mikkeman, thanks for the Allen/LaVine comparison. Interesting to see that Zach is the far better shooter at this stage of their careers.

Mikkeman, I think you meant to post more than just Allen vs. LaVine. Here is a more comprehensive comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id1_select=Zach+LaVine&y1=2017&player_id1=lavinza01&hint=Ray+Allen&player_id2_select=Ray+Allen&y2=1999&player_id2=allenra02&hint=Klay+Thompson&player_id3_select=Klay+Thompson&y3=2014&player_id3=thompkl01&hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id4_select=Bradley+Beal&y4=2015&player_id4=bealbr01&hint=J.R.+Smith&player_id5_select=J.R.+Smith&y5=2007&player_id5=smithjr01&hint=J.J.+Redick&player_id6_select=J.J.+Redick&y6=2009&player_id6=redicjj01

I tried to focus mostly on pure shooters with this comparison since I just don't see LaVine evolving into a James Harden or Manu Ginobilli type all-around force. I may end up being wrong on that front, but to me those two are on a different level because of their ability to become de facto point guards and run an entire offense.

J.R. Smith surprised me here. It's another cautionary tale that there is never a guarantee a young player will keep improving. Those are impressive numbers for a 21-year old.

But overall, Zach stacks up very well with other 3rd year players, many of whom were older than he is. I really am not concerned with Zach as a shooter anymore. If Zach didn't improve a lick offensively from here on out, I'd be fine so long as he became a plus defender. To me, that's the only thing holding him back right now.

Article on Zach.

His performance this year makes me want to tell all those people that said he was a 6th man...he is proving you wrong.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/zach-lavine-emerging-as-crucial-component-of-timberwolves-core-three-231808554.html

Here is one interesting quote from the article by an NBA executive

"He genuinely loves basketball, and perhaps that aspect was overlooked with his other traits as he entered the draft. That [2014] draft was extremely talented, and he could end up being one of the best players."

We have that idiot coach at UCLA to thank for being able to draft LaVine. He is my favorite current Wolf.

Q12543 wrote:Mikkeman, I think you meant to post more than just Allen vs. LaVine. Here is a more comprehensive comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id1_select=Zach+LaVine&y1=2017&player_id1=lavinza01&hint=Ray+Allen&player_id2_select=Ray+Allen&y2=1999&player_id2=allenra02&hint=Klay+Thompson&player_id3_select=Klay+Thompson&y3=2014&player_id3=thompkl01&hint=Bradley+Beal&player_id4_select=Bradley+Beal&y4=2015&player_id4=bealbr01&hint=J.R.+Smith&player_id5_select=J.R.+Smith&y5=2007&player_id5=smithjr01&hint=J.J.+Redick&player_id6_select=J.J.+Redick&y6=2009&player_id6=redicjj01

Yes, here is the comparison that I meant. Didn't realize link-functionality of this board cuts too long links:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Zach+LaVine&player_id1_select=Zach+LaVine&player_id1=lavinza01&y1=2017&hint=Ray+Allen&player_id2_select=Ray+Allen&player_id2=allenra02&y2=1998&hint=Klay+Thompson&player_id3_select=Klay+Thompson&player_id3=thompkl01&y3=2013&hint=Allan+Houston&player_id4_select=Allan+Houston&player_id4=houstal01&y4=1995&hint=Reggie+Miller&player_id5_select=Reggie+Miller&player_id5=millere01&y5=1989&hint=Glen+Rice&player_id6_select=Glen+Rice&player_id6=ricegl01&y6=1991

monsterpile wrote:Article on Zach.

His performance this year makes me want to tell all those people that said he was a 6th man...he is proving you wrong.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/zach-lavine-emerging-as-crucial-component-of-timberwolves-core-three-231808554.html

Here is one interesting quote from the article by an NBA executive

"He genuinely loves basketball, and perhaps that aspect was overlooked with his other traits as he entered the draft. That [2014] draft was extremely talented, and he could end up being one of the best players."

Thanks for that, monster. I am one of those who like the idea of Zach as a 6th man, because I would love to see us starting Wig at SG next to a good defensive SF. I don't see being 6th man a punishment though...great 6th men are part of the core of championship teams, and I think Zach could thrive in that role. But as long as we don't have a suitable option other than Wig at SF, Zach will continue to excel and get better as our starting SG.