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Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:08 pm
by Coolbreeze44
TheFuture wrote:Duke13 wrote:I wanted to stay out of this but couldn't resist. I wouldn't do the above mentioned deal either but find it funny that Cam finds that trade laughable but would trade Simmons for Favors. Cmon dude.
So are you saying you wouldn't trade Simmons for Favors, because you'd be crazy to not do that.
If you're saying Utah wouldn't do that trade, then I understand where you're coming from.
This has been debated here before, and I'd have to say I disagree. If you're the Wolves you might end up winning a Simmons for Favors trade in the long run. But I continue to believe that a top 2 pick in this year's draft has greater value than just Favors. The only way you contend in the NBA is to get your hands on a superstar. And the chance that either Ingram or Simmons can become that player is worth more than what Favors offers. Not every team needs to take that risk, but it's likely they already have their bonafide superstar if they don't. Give teams like Boston, Detroit, Charlotte and several others the choice, and they are going to take a top two pick over Favors.
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:48 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
We probably don't need to open up the Favors debate in this thread, but I'll leave just a couple statements because everyone knows my stance on that. Derrick Favors is way better than most people are aware of. 24-year old players as established and as good on both ends of the floor as he is are not available often. Utah knows how good he is, and the only way they move that young guy is by getting a potential superstar, and cap relief so they can re-sign Hayward and Gobert. We'd be lucky to get just Favors for Simmons, and I doubt we'd get anything else of value considering what we'd already be getting in Favors.
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:14 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Camden wrote:We probably don't need to open up the Favors debate in this thread, but I'll leave just a couple statements because everyone knows my stance on that. Derrick Favors is way better than most people are aware of. 24-year old players as established and as good on both ends of the floor as he is are not available often. Utah knows how good he is, and the only way they move that young guy is by getting a potential superstar, and cap relief so they can re-sign Hayward and Gobert. We'd be lucky to get just Favors for Simmons, and I doubt we'd get anything else of value considering what we'd already be getting in Favors.
No problem. I take Simmons and not think twice about it.
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:17 pm
by mrhockey89
By the way Carlos, it was actually Jalen Rose who threw the idea out there, I was just repeating it (and happened to think it was a fair suggestion)
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:02 pm
by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
mrhockey89 wrote:By the way Carlos, it was actually Jalen Rose who threw the idea out there, I was just repeating it (and happened to think it was a fair suggestion)
Hockey, are you back here for good or just to chip in with that Jalen bit?
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:17 am
by mrhockey89
Jerry, I occasionally pop on this board to see if there's anything interesting, but I haven't been as active on here for a few reasons: 1) ESPN would auto-log me in and I could check on NFL stuff at the same time where as I forget the PW here sometimes, 2) I've had less time...and I just think about it less.
So...take from that what you will! I'll be on and off of here I think :)
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:07 am
by whatdtcom [enjin:6685945]
I think one item that we are all forgetting and hoping that it's a stable of his work is that Thibs help develop Butler. Be honest, if all of the GMs out there believed that he could be where he's at now---All Star caliber player----then he would have been drafted way earlier then his 30th selection of the 2011 draft.
The draft is the biggest hype machine for the NBA...LOL....so for me, I wouldn't trade #5, Lavine and salary fillers for Butler. Especially if I knew the Bulls are trying to unload him.
Talent wins but there's got to have some continuity and chemistry within the team to mesh these talents. I've been fortunate enough to be around the team to see how these guys----Towns, Wiggins, and Lavine---all genuienly love to hang out and work together. Something that's super cool to see.
BTW, anyone here going to the Thibs presser this Tuesday? There's 2, one at 4 and another one open to I believe everyone at 530pm. If you guys like to meet up----this would be an ideal time! Huberts is right there and City Works is great as well.
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:05 am
by MikkeMan
Carlos Danger wrote:
I realize you won't acknowledge the similarities between the Love trade and the one I proposed, but that doesn't make it an "awful trade proposal". That just means that maybe you are not trying very hard to see someone else's point of view. At the time of the trade, Love was a 25 year old All-Star. Butler is currently a 26 year old All-Star. That's similar. The main piece back in the Love trade was Wiggins aka a top pick in the draft. We currently hold the possibility of one of the top picks in this year's draft. That's similar. The Love trade included other parts/pieces which were done to clear space/facilitate the deal. Us including a contract in a trade for Butler would be similar. I realize it's not exactly the same. But certainly you can see there are similarities if you really try.
And "no" Cam, you would not walk up to me (or anyone else) in person and say their proposal was "Awful" or attempt to insult their intelligence by saying they are bad at math. Come on - You know that and I know that. So stop doing that bullshit on here. 90% of the ideas/proposals thrown out on this forum are just for fun/discussion. It's when the insults start flying that things go off track.
As far as a forum get-together, I'd love it! I'd suggest we target a game next season and get a block of tickets. Perhaps someone on here has connections and can even get us a deal. And yeah, I'd shake your hand and talk Wolves. I just think things would be more respectful in person than they sometimes get online - that's all.
Carlos, I think there is one huge difference between Love trade and potential Butler trade. Kevin Love was signed only for one more season and he had made it pretty clear that he would sign with some other team next summer when Butler has still three more years left and I have not heard yet that he would want to leave Bulls.
Also that trade wasn't just Love for Wiggins and Bennett. Wolves received also Young whom Philly traded for Miami's first round pick. So technically it could have been Love for Wiggins, Bennett and 24th pick in this years draft.
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:29 am
by Carlos Danger
Mikkeman wrote:
Carlos, I think there is one huge difference between Love trade and potential Butler trade. Kevin Love was signed only for one more season and he had made it pretty clear that he would sign with some other team next summer when Butler has still three more years left and I have not heard yet that he would want to leave Bulls.
Also that trade wasn't just Love for Wiggins and Bennett. Wolves received also Young whom Philly traded for Miami's first round pick. So technically it could have been Love for Wiggins, Bennett and 24th pick in this years draft.
The OP stated there are reports that Jimmy Butler is at odds with the Bulls organization. The contract situation is not a huge difference IMO because Love was making it clear he was going to sign a long term deal where he would get traded (and he did).
At the end of the day, the Love trade was about an All-Star in his prime for a top draft pick. As I've already stated (multiple times) there are often other moving parts in such deals - some of which are players teams want to move. Anthony Bennett was not a coveted piece of the Love trade. He was a salary/roster spot dump by Cleveland. A trade for Butler would be similar to the Love trade IMO and probably include other parts as well.
Re: Jimmy Butler
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:21 am
by MikkeMan
Carlos Danger wrote:Mikkeman wrote:
Carlos, I think there is one huge difference between Love trade and potential Butler trade. Kevin Love was signed only for one more season and he had made it pretty clear that he would sign with some other team next summer when Butler has still three more years left and I have not heard yet that he would want to leave Bulls.
Also that trade wasn't just Love for Wiggins and Bennett. Wolves received also Young whom Philly traded for Miami's first round pick. So technically it could have been Love for Wiggins, Bennett and 24th pick in this years draft.
The OP stated there are reports that Jimmy Butler is at odds with the Bulls organization. The contract situation is not a huge difference IMO because Love was making it clear he was going to sign a long term deal where he would get traded (and he did).
At the end of the day, the Love trade was about an All-Star in his prime for a top draft pick. As I've already stated (multiple times) there are often other moving parts in such deals - some of which are players teams want to move. Anthony Bennett was not a coveted piece of the Love trade. He was a salary/roster spot dump by Cleveland. A trade for Butler would be similar to the Love trade IMO and probably include other parts as well.
I think that three years makes a lot difference. Bulls have a lot more leverage since they don't need to trade Butler this summer. They can also basically trade him whatever team makes the best offer. Since Love did have a very short list of teams where he would resign, Flip had much less options than Chicago will have. Despite these much worse circumstances I think the value of received players from Love trade was much more than what you suggested in exchange for Butler.