Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:Love literally never had the full support of this organization so he left. That's what you do when your bosses suck and never put their faith in your abilities. Don't give me the we gave him $60 million reasons to get over it bullshit. He's the only max guy in forever to not get the deal he wanted because we had an owner and GM who thought they were the smartest guys in the room while running the worst franchise in the league at the time. In a players league that is an absolute fucking joke. There are only a handful of stars in the league and they get to dictate where they go for the most part and we had one who was willing to sign a 5 year deal and we didn't give it to him. He may not have made it here all 5 years but that was because he like many on the board saw this team's potential was capped around him because it wasn't built correctly and Flip was just trying to do patch jobs to get us better in hopes it would have convinced him to stay. It wouldn't have worked because it takes more than 1 star to win in this league and we had a bunch of the wrong role players around him.


That deal was the straw that broke the camels back because the team around him was garbage and then they gave him an offer that said you still aren't good enough for us. He spent his entire career here with nobody in the organization believing in him until the damage was already done. He gave us a fair chance and our organization failed miserably. Money is not a good enough reason to say he should have put up with all the bullshit and been a good soldier. The Cleveland situation is yet another one where he's being put down because he's not the 3 and D specialist they want him to be. Another example of an organization just not getting it. He's gonna keep leaving until he finds someone who says you're my guy and we're gonna build a winner around you and they actually carry out that promise.

Love may not have liked it in MN, but he gave them every chance to keep him and they repeatedly came back at him with an attitude of you're not good enough so he got out. This situation is 100% the organization's fault and to blame Love for having 1 foot out the door is absurd because that is what every person does at their jobs where they are never supported and told they are not good enough. Only Love was the 5 star prospect every other organization says we'll give you whatever you want because you're one of the best at what you do and let us know what you need to make it work.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Tired of hearing the excuses for Love. Neither Rambis or Kahn are still with the wolves so if Love is holding a grudge, that just shows immaturity on his part. It's funny how we continually hear the players and their agents tout the "it's a business" tagline, but then when it comes down to it we are supposed to overlook all their faults, coddle them like a bunch of two year olds, and pay them ridiculous sums of money.

That's just the nature of sports. While none of us can comprehend most athletes' actions when compared to real-world problems we all deal with... we have to remember the contextual world these guys live in.

Whether it's Kevin Love or Kevin Garnett or Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh or Zach Randolph or maybe even Kris Humphries... sitting behind Hollins and Darko leaves a mark. Being told you're out best player and we're the worst team in the league... and we know you are desperate to stay anyway... but we don't like you THAT much leaves a mark.

For me, it's not about Kevin Love. It's about actions from a former overmatched regime that should have never been hired in the first place having residual effects many years later.

Saunders might have bailed out Glen Taylor with the Wiggins trade. At worst, it's ignited a fanbase's optimism in a lot of ways. Losing Kevin Love might be the best thing to ever happen to this franchise. Great if that comes true. But call it excuses or not... I can't imagine many players sticking around any longer than Kevin Love did for this organization if they were put in the same spot.


[Note: I don't think this is harping on the past to the point of needing a "just let it go" response from other posters. At least I'm not trying to make it that type of post. After all, Taylor is still the guy at the top and we've recently seen residual effects from those decisions years ago. Taylor missed the mark so badly on the Kahn hire... we can hope he's learned his lesson since then... or be afraid that he's just a horrible owner who makes horrible decisions one after another.]

khans2k5 wrote:Love literally never had the full support of this organization so he left. That's what you do when your bosses suck and never put their faith in your abilities. Don't give me the we gave him $60 million reasons to get over it bullshit. He's the only max guy in forever to not get the deal he wanted because we had an owner and GM who thought they were the smartest guys in the room while running the worst franchise in the league at the time. In a players league that is an absolute fucking joke. There are only a handful of stars in the league and they get to dictate where they go for the most part and we had one who was willing to sign a 5 year deal and we didn't give it to him. He may not have made it here all 5 years but that was because he like many on the board saw this team's potential was capped around him because it wasn't built correctly and Flip was just trying to do patch jobs to get us better in hopes it would have convinced him to stay. It wouldn't have worked because it takes more than 1 star to win in this league and we had a bunch of the wrong role players around him.


That deal was the straw that broke the camels back because the team around him was garbage and then they gave him an offer that said you still aren't good enough for us. He spent his entire career here with nobody in the organization believing in him until the damage was already done. He gave us a fair chance and our organization failed miserably. Money is not a good enough reason to say he should have put up with all the bullshit and been a good soldier. The Cleveland situation is yet another one where he's being put down because he's not the 3 and D specialist they want him to be. Another example of an organization just not getting it. He's gonna keep leaving until he finds someone who says you're my guy and we're gonna build a winner around you and they actually carry out that promise.

Love may not have liked it in MN, but he gave them every chance to keep him and they repeatedly came back at him with an attitude of you're not good enough so he got out. This situation is 100% the organization's fault and to blame Love for having 1 foot out the door is absurd because that is what every person does at their jobs where they are never supported and told they are not good enough. Only Love was the 5 star prospect every other organization says we'll give you whatever you want because you're one of the best at what you do and let us know what you need to make it work.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:Love literally never had the full support of this organization so he left. That's what you do when your bosses suck and never put their faith in your abilities. Don't give me the we gave him $60 million reasons to get over it bullshit. He's the only max guy in forever to not get the deal he wanted because we had an owner and GM who thought they were the smartest guys in the room while running the worst franchise in the league at the time. In a players league that is an absolute fucking joke. There are only a handful of stars in the league and they get to dictate where they go for the most part and we had one who was willing to sign a 5 year deal and we didn't give it to him. He may not have made it here all 5 years but that was because he like many on the board saw this team's potential was capped around him because it wasn't built correctly and Flip was just trying to do patch jobs to get us better in hopes it would have convinced him to stay. It wouldn't have worked because it takes more than 1 star to win in this league and we had a bunch of the wrong role players around him.


That deal was the straw that broke the camels back because the team around him was garbage and then they gave him an offer that said you still aren't good enough for us. He spent his entire career here with nobody in the organization believing in him until the damage was already done. He gave us a fair chance and our organization failed miserably. Money is not a good enough reason to say he should have put up with all the bullshit and been a good soldier. The Cleveland situation is yet another one where he's being put down because he's not the 3 and D specialist they want him to be. Another example of an organization just not getting it. He's gonna keep leaving until he finds someone who says you're my guy and we're gonna build a winner around you and they actually carry out that promise.

Love may not have liked it in MN, but he gave them every chance to keep him and they repeatedly came back at him with an attitude of you're not good enough so he got out. This situation is 100% the organization's fault and to blame Love for having 1 foot out the door is absurd because that is what every person does at their jobs where they are never supported and told they are not good enough. Only Love was the 5 star prospect every other organization says we'll give you whatever you want because you're one of the best at what you do and let us know what you need to make it work.

As for his time in Cleveland... it should be interesting. IF they're willing to pay him what he could get elsewhere... the Cavs do offer him the best chance to win, right? And isn't that what he always said he wanted?

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

sjm34 wrote:Tired of hearing the excuses for Love. Neither Rambis or Kahn are still with the wolves so if Love is holding a grudge, that just shows immaturity on his part. It's funny how we continually hear the players and their agents tout the "it's a business" tagline, but then when it comes down to it we are supposed to overlook all their faults, coddle them like a bunch of two year olds, and pay them ridiculous sums of money.

That's just the nature of sports. While none of us can comprehend most athletes' actions when compared to real-world problems we all deal with... we have to remember the contextual world these guys live in.

Whether it's Kevin Love or Kevin Garnett or Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh or Zach Randolph or maybe even Kris Humphries... sitting behind Hollins and Darko leaves a mark. Being told you're out best player and we're the worst team in the league... and we know you are desperate to stay anyway... but we don't like you THAT much leaves a mark.

For me, it's not about Kevin Love. It's about actions from a former overmatched regime that should have never been hired in the first place having residual effects many years later.

Saunders might have bailed out Glen Taylor with the Wiggins trade. At worst, it's ignited a fanbase's optimism in a lot of ways. Losing Kevin Love might be the best thing to ever happen to this franchise. Great if that comes true. But call it excuses or not... I can't imagine many players sticking around any longer than Kevin Love did for this organization if they were put in the same spot.


[Note: I don't think this is harping on the past to the point of needing a "just let it go" response from other posters. At least I'm not trying to make it that type of post. After all, Taylor is still the guy at the top and we've recently seen residual effects from those decisions years ago. Taylor missed the mark so badly on the Kahn hire... we can hope he's learned his lesson since then... or be afraid that he's just a horrible owner who makes horrible decisions one after another.]

Yes, the emergence of Wiggins has definitely ignited the fanbase's optimism. And I think the contrast between our former franchise player and our new one has a lot to do with that optimism. While I admired what Love brought to the table, I never saw him as a guy that could lead a team to a championship...making the playoffs, and maybe a first round bye, was our celling. And it was agonizing to always have to worry about what his current mindset was. Kevin in many ways reminded me of that cute but high-maintenance girlfriend you had...there were clearly benefits, but the drama always won out.

But there is no such ceiling with Wiggins. He is a true 2-way player with other-worldly athleticism, and he demonstrated a learning curve this season that constantly made me adjust his personal ceiling. And despite suffering through a 16-win season, he never changed his positive, team-oriented outcome...what a refreshing change after the past 6 years.

Cleveland fans have to be thinking about what could have been...a lineup of Irving, Smith, Wiggins, James and Mozgov certainly could have challenged for the title this year, and I doubt that Andrew would have had the awkward relationship with LeBron that Kevin did. I always thought that the Love/Wiggins deal was almost too good to be true, and that it would favor the Wolves long-term...I never would have believed it would even favor the Wolves in the first year.

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

I think you're right, khans...Kevin will keep jumping ship until he finds that impossibly elusive situation. A team that will say "You are the guy...lead us to a championship". Who wouldn't want that? The problem is that Kevin doesn't have the complete game necessary to lead a team to a championship, and that's why he isn't a max player. While there are exceptions, I want my max player to be the kind of guy who can carry a team on both ends of the court, and that will never be Kevin. Love will always be a guy who can put up huge stats on a mediocre team, but will never be "the man" on a winner. That's why he will always be dissatisfied...rich, but dissatisfied!

This makes the most sense. Kevin really isn't a 5 year max player to any team serious about winning a championship. If you try to build around him as your center piece, you may become a good team but you aren't going to become a contender. I blame Kahn for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for not giving Love 5 years. In fact it was savvy of him. He shouldn't have given him the three year opt out option, but he was smart to avoid the 5 year commitment. Love is one dimensional, and he is going to be an injury waiting to happen going forward.

Just because we're the T-Wolves doesn't mean we should be held hostage by a good player demanding more than he's worth. I don't care if Love was willing to commit to the team for 5 years. It has to be a fit for BOTH player and team. it would have been a great deal for Love, not as great for us. We are in a better place today because Kahn refused to oblige.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

I think you're right, khans...Kevin will keep jumping ship until he finds that impossibly elusive situation. A team that will say "You are the guy...lead us to a championship". Who wouldn't want that? The problem is that Kevin doesn't have the complete game necessary to lead a team to a championship, and that's why he isn't a max player. While there are exceptions, I want my max player to be the kind of guy who can carry a team on both ends of the court, and that will never be Kevin. Love will always be a guy who can put up huge stats on a mediocre team, but will never be "the man" on a winner. That's why he will always be dissatisfied...rich, but dissatisfied!

This makes the most sense. Kevin really isn't a 5 year max player to any team serious about winning a championship. If you try to build around him as your center piece, you may become a good team but you aren't going to become a contender. I blame Kahn for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for not giving Love 5 years. In fact it was savvy of him. He shouldn't have given him the three year opt out option, but he was smart to avoid the 5 year commitment. Love is one dimensional, and he is going to be an injury waiting to happen going forward.

Just because we're the T-Wolves doesn't mean we should be held hostage by a good player demanding more than he's worth. I don't care if Love was willing to commit to the team for 5 years. It has to be a fit for BOTH player and team. it would have been a great deal for Love, not as great for us. We are in a better place today because Kahn refused to oblige.

Maybe.

The Wolves didn't have to be stuck with Love though. Remember, the 5-year deal was largely considered a fair one at the time... and would have this summer. In fact, they could have conceivably received more in return for a guy not on an expiring deal.


[Note: I do not see how it makes Kahn look savvy. The team was bailed out largely because LeBron James became the GM of the Cavs the perfect time. Kahn didn't see that coming. Heck, he's the guy who didn't even see the tv camera pointed at him while he ate his own ear wax for chrissakes.]

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I think it makes Kahn look savvy because Love is demonstrating why he shouldn't be a team's only 5 year max player. Love wanted it, a majority of the fans wanted to see it, but Kahn didn't bend to that pressure. I think you have to give him credit for that one.