Another article about useless mentorship

[TheFuture]

Yeah let's trade 2 young players that have game and who seem to want to be here for someone better because we have a great track record as the team that fleeces the other team...

Keep them both, pay them both accordingly when the time comes.

[60WinTim]

Speaking of mentoring, there are different levels. We have one level that gets you on the front cover of SI...

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Isn't that usually a curse?

[WildWolf2813]

I'm with Q on this. We probably have the chance to sell high on Dieng and do so before having to pay him $10M+ a year. If he was a better defensive presence, or a defensive presence at all, I'd be less accepting to the idea of trading him, but that isn't the case.

I have zero faith in this franchise getting an equal or better player back for Dieng. I'd rather keep him. Last year was his first year playing significant minutes. He played fine - arguably our best player based on Win Shares and VORP. He's durable (something we should all appreciate after watching Pek) and I don't think he's nearly as bad defensively as some are trying to make him out to be. I doubt Towns would have done much better last year playing with Thad Young, LaVine, Muhammad and Wiggins. Defense is a team effort and when guys don't stop the ball/allow penetration or don't rotate/help....it's not going to turn out well. I can't put all the blame on Dieng last year anymore than I will put all the blame on Towns this year if our defense sucks again (and it probably will - although Rubio/KG should be upgrades to what Dieng had to work with). Instead of dumping good players, I'd be more in favor of dumping useless players.

As a former major Gorgui Dieng fan and as Q would know, leader of the #FreeDieng club here, I'm done with him and I'd trade him for all the reasons Q named.

[Carlos Danger]

As a former major Gorgui Dieng fan and as Q would know, leader of the #FreeDieng club here, I'm done with him and I'd trade him for all the reasons Q named.

Well, it's been stated by the local beat writers that there would be plenty of interest for Dieng.
* He's still pretty young. Age 25 - same as guys like Rubio and Lorenzo Brown
* He still has upside. Last year was his first year playing big minutes. He led the team in WS and VORP
* He has a good offseason in International play
* He's leading the team this preseason in scoring and PER
* He's cheap. He'll make $1.5 this season, $2.3 next year and there a QO for $3.4 the following season

As I wrote earlier...if you can get me a better player for a better price - I'm all for it. Personally, I don't see that happening. What would be better IMO is to get some coaching in here to help develop a defensive scheme that will help ALL the players. Right now, we have maybe two guys who can play tough defense: KG and Rubio. So do we get rid of the rest of the team? Or can we do a better job of coaching our young guys to be better?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

As a former major Gorgui Dieng fan and as Q would know, leader of the #FreeDieng club here, I'm done with him and I'd trade him for all the reasons Q named.

Well, it's been stated by the local beat writers that there would be plenty of interest for Dieng.
* He's still pretty young. Age 25 - same as guys like Rubio and Lorenzo Brown
* He still has upside. Last year was his first year playing big minutes. He led the team in WS and VORP
* He has a good offseason in International play
* He's leading the team this preseason in scoring and PER
* He's cheap. He'll make $1.5 this season, $2.3 next year and there a QO for $3.4 the following season

As I wrote earlier...if you can get me a better player for a better price - I'm all for it. Personally, I don't see that happening. What would be better IMO is to get some coaching in here to help develop a defensive scheme that will help ALL the players. Right now, we have maybe two guys who can play tough defense: KG and Rubio. So do we get rid of the rest of the team? Or can we do a better job of coaching our young guys to be better?

Dieng is a huge bargain right now, no question about it. I get that he scores well in the box score stats, but we all know that rebounds, steals, and blocks don't necessarily equate to good defense even though they help boost PER.

I'd be willing to take a hit in some of the box score stats that Dieng produces in exchange for a beefy, defensive-minded big man that can do a better job protecting the paint and sealing guys off for rebounds. I have no idea if we could find that guy and pull off a good trade. If we can't, then we need to hold onto Dieng (again, I'm not advocating a "dump"). But he could be a very valuable trade chip that actually yields us a player of value in return that ends up being a better fit for our roster.

[Carlos Danger]

Dieng is a huge bargain right now, no question about it. I get that he scores well in the box score stats, but we all know that rebounds, steals, and blocks don't necessarily equate to good defense even though they help boost PER.

I'd be willing to take a hit in some of the box score stats that Dieng produces in exchange for a beefy, defensive-minded big man that can do a better job protecting the paint and sealing guys off for rebounds. I have no idea if we could find that guy and pull off a good trade. If we can't, then we need to hold onto Dieng (again, I'm not advocating a "dump"). But he could be a very valuable trade chip that actually yields us a player of value in return that ends up being a better fit for our roster.

OK. But if you are going to blame Dieng for last year's defense, then logically you will have to blame Towns for this year's defense since he's now the starting center. And from what we've seen so far...the defense looks equally shitty.

I guess that's where you and I differ. I don't think it's that simple to just blame the starting center for all the defensive woes. Towns should be a capable defender and so should Dieng, LaVine etc. If almost everyone on the team is considered a below average defender, then shouldn't we at least entertain the idea that we might have a bigger problem i.e. coaching/scheme?

This team is still a long ways away from being good. IMO, you hang onto young, cheap talent like Dieng and Bazz and develop them. Hopefully a handful of those guys become quality players to form a nucleus. That's the time to make moves like you are suggesting. But why move young guys with upside now when we really don't have any pieces in place? We don't even have a coach - Sam's an interim.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Dieng and Bazz are only cheap for this year and the next. Why are you acting like we don't know that?

[Carlos Danger]

Dieng and Bazz are only cheap for this year and the next. Why are you acting like we don't know that?

I guess because if I thought you knew that, then you wouldn't be writing stuff like this:

I'm with Q on this. We probably have the chance to sell high on Dieng and do so before having to pay him $10M+ a year. If he was a better defensive presence, or a defensive presence at all, I'd be less accepting to the idea of trading him, but that isn't the case.

We never have to pay Dieng $10M+ a year. Dieng is going to be dirt cheap until 2017/2018 and even then we still use a Qualifying Offer to see what the open market value for him. If the market is too high as you fear - then don't match the offer he gets. But if the market is reasonable, then maybe it's worth signing him. Seems pretty simple. In the meantime, we get two years of incredible value from Dieng based on pay/performance. He's a net positive to this team for cheap. I highly doubt you are going to get anything close to that value in whatever you get back in trade for him. But as I wrote before, if someone offers us an All Star player in exchange for Dieng as you suggested, then by all means - make that trade. Good luck with that though....

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Dieng is a huge bargain right now, no question about it. I get that he scores well in the box score stats, but we all know that rebounds, steals, and blocks don't necessarily equate to good defense even though they help boost PER.

I'd be willing to take a hit in some of the box score stats that Dieng produces in exchange for a beefy, defensive-minded big man that can do a better job protecting the paint and sealing guys off for rebounds. I have no idea if we could find that guy and pull off a good trade. If we can't, then we need to hold onto Dieng (again, I'm not advocating a "dump"). But he could be a very valuable trade chip that actually yields us a player of value in return that ends up being a better fit for our roster.

OK. But if you are going to blame Dieng for last year's defense, then logically you will have to blame Towns for this year's defense since he's now the starting center. And from what we've seen so far...the defense looks equally shitty.

I guess that's where you and I differ. I don't think it's that simple to just blame the starting center for all the defensive woes. Towns should be a capable defender and so should Dieng, LaVine etc. If almost everyone on the team is considered a below average defender, then shouldn't we at least entertain the idea that we might have a bigger problem i.e. coaching/scheme?

This team is still a long ways away from being good. IMO, you hang onto young, cheap talent like Dieng and Bazz and develop them. Hopefully a handful of those guys become quality players to form a nucleus. That's the time to make moves like you are suggesting. But why move young guys with upside now when we really don't have any pieces in place? We don't even have a coach - Sam's an interim.

A few things:

- I don't blame Dieng for all of our defensive woes last year, but I do assign more blame to him than almost any other player. Centers, in general, have the largest influence on team defensive rating of the 5 positions on the floor, so they generally deserve a higher percentage of credit when the defense is excellent and a higher percentage of blame when it stinks. We had one of the worst 3 defensive teams in NBA history last season. Sorry, but Dieng gets a lot of the blame for that.

- I absolutely do believe Towns will struggle on defense and I've said many times here that I believe he will be a net negative this season for that very reason. He's also a 19 year old rookie with one year of part-time college experience.

- Now let's talk about Dieng last year: He was a 25-year old 2nd year player that had some nice run as a rookie (once Pek got hurt) and prior to that had 3 years of D1 ball at Louisville. So yeah, my expectations for Dieng last season were much higher than Towns this season given his age and experience.

- Now let's talk about eye test and not stats: Have you watched him guard guys one on one in the post? I'm not sure what scheme change is going to help make him a better post defender. He has a high center of gravity and weak core, making him very easily knocked out of position. I'm not even sure what he can do about that anymore given his age. From a technique perspective, we've talked time and again about how he doesn't wall up and opens his hips up to penetrating guards, hoping to block shots off the glass, only to see him get beat time and again as he whiffs on the shot block.

- Now if we were overloaded with defensive-oriented players at multiple positions (think Al Jefferson in Charlotte the last couple of years), then yeah, Dieng would be a good fit because he's blossomed into a fairly skilled offensive player. I don't think you need great defenders at every position in every minute of the game. But we have a paucity of them and Dieng has enough trade value to potentially bring us back something of similar value, but with a skill-set and style that is more of a fit.