Camden0916 wrote:khans, I'm very certain that you've argued that signing KG for $5M+ a year isn't a big deal because we're a rebuilding team and there's no one available that would be better. So, arguing money here goes against what you've said previously. Martin at $6.5M is a steal in today's NBA. Bjelica may not be a proven NBA guy, but he did just win Euro MVP and looks to be much better than Payne and Bennett.
As for projecting Mirotic (or NB), I could see him being a starter. He's got a good skill-set and works hard on defense. He's currently in a bad spot to prove that, however.
KG still gives you 20 good minutes when he plays and the team plays better with him on the court. NB is a complete unknown at the NBA level. It is way different to pay 5 million for a known commodity than an unknown like NB. We could be lighting 5 million dollars on fire for 3 years for all we know with NB. I typically don't believe any rookies contribute much to winning so why pay 5 million for that lack of impact instead of 1+?
Martin doesn't have to go because of cost, but because of fit and why not save yourself some money when you dump him? When he plays with Wiggins, Wiggins disappears because Martin takes a lot of shots and the offense focuses on him. Wiggins' growth came from being a feature of the offense. Martin isn't a veteran who plays within the team, he plays to get his 20 a game and because he is still relatively efficient he'll keep being allowed to do that. He took the most shots per game of his career last year. He's also the main block of Lavine playing the position he should play with the players he should play with. Given that he is also a short term guy I am fine clearing him out for younger players.
Great points on Martin. I feel exactly the same way. Martin is a good player, I just don't like his fit on our team right now.
Totally agree. We have way too many proven efficient scorers:) Should probably dump Martin. Especially with as good as Lavine was last year. I mean, he did have those 2 games he looked good.
Camden0916 wrote:khans, I'm very certain that you've argued that signing KG for $5M+ a year isn't a big deal because we're a rebuilding team and there's no one available that would be better. So, arguing money here goes against what you've said previously. Martin at $6.5M is a steal in today's NBA. Bjelica may not be a proven NBA guy, but he did just win Euro MVP and looks to be much better than Payne and Bennett.
As for projecting Mirotic (or NB), I could see him being a starter. He's got a good skill-set and works hard on defense. He's currently in a bad spot to prove that, however.
KG still gives you 20 good minutes when he plays and the team plays better with him on the court. NB is a complete unknown at the NBA level. It is way different to pay 5 million for a known commodity than an unknown like NB. We could be lighting 5 million dollars on fire for 3 years for all we know with NB. I typically don't believe any rookies contribute much to winning so why pay 5 million for that lack of impact instead of 1+?
Martin doesn't have to go because of cost, but because of fit and why not save yourself some money when you dump him? When he plays with Wiggins, Wiggins disappears because Martin takes a lot of shots and the offense focuses on him. Wiggins' growth came from being a feature of the offense. Martin isn't a veteran who plays within the team, he plays to get his 20 a game and because he is still relatively efficient he'll keep being allowed to do that. He took the most shots per game of his career last year. He's also the main block of Lavine playing the position he should play with the players he should play with. Given that he is also a short term guy I am fine clearing him out for younger players.
Great points on Martin. I feel exactly the same way. Martin is a good player, I just don't like his fit on our team right now.
Totally agree. We have way too many proven efficient scorers:) Should probably dump Martin. Especially with as good as Lavine was last year. I mean, he did have those 2 games he looked good.
Except his efficiency has been going down since he got here. He's posted his two lowest true shooting percentage seasons since his rookie year the last two years. Lavine only had a 0.5% worse FG% and 3.9% true shooting % last year as a 19 year old rookie compared to Martin's years of experience. Martin is a better 3pt shooter, but even Lavine has promise in that area to get better and he wasn't a bad 3pt shooter to begin with. He probably won't be as good as Martin, but overall he brings more to the table. I think a Lavine/Wiggins/Bazz trio of wings will be just fine in the scoring department and what else does Martin give you besides scoring? Lavine is a better ball handler and defender. So you take a drop off in scoring from Martin which gets transferred to Lavine and Wiggins because Wiggins with Martin is less effective than without and it's not a huge loss in my opinion.
Oh, wait, all the best teams in the NBA. Let's get rid of one of the best catch-and-shoot players in basketball (for real, check the stats) for shits and gigs. LaVine's going to get his minutes regardless of Martin being here.
Wiggins is going to play with good players in the future. If he defers to all of them, maybe he isn't the superstar we want him to be. He needs to have the "give me the damn ball" mentality. Moving Martin just makes us worse.
Like I said, K-Mart is a good player. He's just not a great fit on our team. I suppose if he could accept a reduced role, he would be just fine. But we all know he isn't going to take to that very well.
Agree with Hicks and Cam. Why shouldn't have to give up Martin for Wiggins to establish himself, if anything having Martin on the floor should make Wiggins more effective
Volans19 wrote:Agree with Hicks and Cam. Why shouldn't have to give up Martin for Wiggins to establish himself, if anything having Martin on the floor should make Wiggins more effective
That's not what I saw last year. Martin is constantly hunting shots, and quite frankly, he shot like shit toward the end of the year. Especially on 3 pointers. I want to see Wiggins, Lavine, and Bazz get those shots this year. Martin would be fine as a shooter off the bench, I just don't see that working here.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Like I said, K-Mart is a good player. He's just not a great fit on our team. I suppose if he could accept a reduced role, he would be just fine. But we all know he isn't going to take to that very well.
Why don't we continue to get better, and then see how he reacts? We forget that he happily took a backseat in OKC. Was one of his most efficient seasons because he wasn't asked to do too much. He played his role and was damn good at it. We're not a good team right now, but we might be. The team needs to improve and Flip needs to find a coach, or coach himself, that will explain to Martin what his role is.
He could easily be our Kyle Korver, for example. That's not to take away from Korver or Martin, but to illustrate the role he could have.
Volans19 wrote:Agree with Hicks and Cam. Why shouldn't have to give up Martin for Wiggins to establish himself, if anything having Martin on the floor should make Wiggins more effective
That's not what I saw last year. Martin is constantly hunting shots, and quite frankly, he shot like shit toward the end of the year. Especially on 3 pointers. I want to see Wiggins, Lavine, and Bazz get those shots this year. Martin would be fine as a shooter off the bench, I just don't see that working here.
Martin while flawed as we all know can't do anything right. If he takes a back seat he is too passive and needs to step up and score. Oh no he is shooting too much! Ahhhhk! At the end of the year he was playing with Wiggins and d-league level talent of course he was hunting for shots and sometimes looking awful since he was playing hurt and was one of 2 legit NBA rotation players (Lavine did play well for streches so maybe 3) on the entire team. Right now Martin is one of 2 true volume 3 point shooter on the team and if you buy into that 3 point shooting is a big deal thing I don't think trading away your best 3 point shooter makes sense unless you get something pretty good for him. There is plenty of minutes to go around and he will get hurt for 15-25 games anyway so I am not worried about him hurting opportunities for younger players. I'd keep him since 2 of our players that hopefully play a lot of minutes Rubio and Pek can't shoot. Look if Martin was going to be a problem he would have asked for a trade and Flip would have dealt him. Instead he seems fine playing with a bunch of young kids on a terrible team. I am really not sure what you get that's going to help the te more than what he brings at this point having a couple vets guys that can actually play isn't the worst thing in the world. If the wolves have guys that play well enough to push him to the bench and even to the place were we have to move him I am sure that can be accomplished with some sort of return. I would rather keep him for now and I think its pretty obvious he isn't going anywhere.
If there are enough balls to go around for Curry and Klay, then surely there are enough balls to go around for Wiggins and Martin, especially when we have probably the most pass heavy point guard in the league feeding them.
