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Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:41 pm
by WildWolf2813
Camden wrote:GS: Kevin Love, Chase Budinger
MIN: Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, future GS 1st
Jason Terry (cut), Travis Outlaw (cut), No. 8 pick
SAC: David Lee
Then there's also rumors of a three-team trade with MIN/GS + ORL. It's all about David Lee.
Rubio said he's not interested in a rebuild. He's been a winner all his life before coming to the Wolves. Think Flip's going to go for "ready to play" prospects and help Rubio.
Can we cut Barnes too?
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:42 pm
by mrhockey89
foye2smith wrote:
Love the trade idea. David Lee probably kills the deal. As skilled as he is and how great the interior passing would be between Boogie & Lee I just don't see Sacramento taking on his contract and giving up #8.
And as to Ricky, he doesn't have the clout or the leverage to be saying anything along the lines he did. Wolves shouldn't make any short sighted moves to appease Ricky. He's a middle of the road PG who's stuck with the Wolves for another 5-6 seasons barring any trade or him risking the qualified offer.
Foye, why do you say Ricky doesn't have the right to say that? He's already been a part of one rebuild, he's just basically saying he doesn't want to spend his entire NBA prime in a rebuild. Love's situation is different because Ricky realizes this team is on the rise and is happy with that while Love is finding excuses to leave and has been holding the team hostage for years. I think if the Wolves won 34 games without Love next year but had a younger but more talented roster, Ricky would see that. But if we're going back down to 20 wins, noone wants to be a part of that long term.
Ricky is more than middle of the road..he's a jump shot away from becoming an elite PG. And it's clear when he's on the floor because he runs the offense heads and shoulders above everyone we've had at the position for a decade. Ricky isn't threatening to leave, he's stating he doesn't want to go with a fire sale rebuild. If we got a solid player that fit, replaced Love's salary with better depth/rotation players, some of our young guys improve, and we add say...the #1 pick in the draft and he turns out to be the real deal or anything close to it, then that's not a rebuild, that's a reload for the long term future of the team.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:48 pm
by mrhockey89
lipoli390 wrote:
I'm absolutely sure Kahn saiid 3rd or 4th best player. It's been etched in my mind ever since he made the comment. I remember how surprising it was because even then it was clear he was at least a third best on a championship team with the potential to be more. At the time, Love was already a prolific rebounder at the NBA level and had shown he could score inside and out. But more importantly, our top exec should not have so categorically capped his best player's potential at age 22 to a group of season ticket holders. Combine that with the other things and you can understand why Love might be on a fairly short fuse with this organization.
Lip, Love was not a franchise caliber player at that time, and even now it's arguable whether he could be the #1 player on a championship team (I don't think he could unless we had a team as deep and talented as the Spurs all around, and even then you could argue Tony Parker would be the engine that makes the team go all around). I think everyone could agree he could be a high level #2 on a championship team though.
So I think you're really just arguing semantics.. Kahn isn't with the team anymore so Love has no reason to be bitter towards anyone still with the team for that. I think about any exec in the league would have agreed with that comment at the time (even if they were unwilling to say it), and for all we know it could be part of what drove Love to get to where he got to.
And if Love is even thinking about that comment as part of the reason that he's looking to leave, then good riddance, grow thicker skin, because it'd mean he's completely soft. This is the NBA, not the WNBA.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:50 pm
by mrhockey89
WildWolf2813 wrote:alexftbl8181 wrote:If Love goes to say, Chicago or even Golden State, wouldn't he be proving Kahn right?
Love would easily be the best player on either of those teams
On what planet is Love better than a former MVP in Rose and the defensive player of the year in Noah?
I think Love is better than Noah. They're fairly equivalent passers with Love being a slightly better rebounder, Love being far superior offensively and Noah far superior defensively. I don't think he would "easily" be the best player, but I do think he'd be the best player not named Rose.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:18 pm
by foye2smith [enjin:6593248]
mrhockey89 wrote:foye2smith wrote:
Love the trade idea. David Lee probably kills the deal. As skilled as he is and how great the interior passing would be between Boogie & Lee I just don't see Sacramento taking on his contract and giving up #8.
And as to Ricky, he doesn't have the clout or the leverage to be saying anything along the lines he did. Wolves shouldn't make any short sighted moves to appease Ricky. He's a middle of the road PG who's stuck with the Wolves for another 5-6 seasons barring any trade or him risking the qualified offer.
Foye, why do you say Ricky doesn't have the right to say that? He's already been a part of one rebuild, he's just basically saying he doesn't want to spend his entire NBA prime in a rebuild. Love's situation is different because Ricky realizes this team is on the rise and is happy with that while Love is finding excuses to leave and has been holding the team hostage for years. I think if the Wolves won 34 games without Love next year but had a younger but more talented roster, Ricky would see that. But if we're going back down to 20 wins, noone wants to be a part of that long term.
Ricky is more than middle of the road..he's a jump shot away from becoming an elite PG. And it's clear when he's on the floor because he runs the offense heads and shoulders above everyone we've had at the position for a decade. Ricky isn't threatening to leave, he's stating he doesn't want to go with a fire sale rebuild. If we got a solid player that fit, replaced Love's salary with better depth/rotation players, some of our young guys improve, and we add say...the #1 pick in the draft and he turns out to be the real deal or anything close to it, then that's not a rebuild, that's a reload for the long term future of the team.
He's been in Minnesota for a second. Kid is still on his rookie deal and is far away from his prime or an out from Minnesota. It was a statement that didn't need to be said. He's in no place to drop those seeds yet, "I want to stay, but Id like to win." Ricky is so far away from an exit ramp there aren't even road signs. Hell, maybe the 13th pick won't want to go through a rebuild and wants to win.
I'm just saying from year 1 to year 2 the team was stagnant due to injuries and from 2 to 3 a nine win improvement. He didn't suffer through Wittman or Rambis. Relative to wolves of the past 10 years Ricky has had it peachy.
I don't think me calling Rubio average is out of line at all. We know what he excels at we know what he doesn't. He's not a top 10 PG and the tier he's in you could be talked into taking several guys over him. I mean you said it, needs a shot to be elite. Until then middle of the road.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:54 pm
by mrhockey89
foye2smith wrote:
He's been in Minnesota for a second. Kid is still on his rookie deal and is far away from his prime or an out from Minnesota. It was a statement that didn't need to be said. He's in no place to drop those seeds yet, "I want to stay, but Id like to win." Ricky is so far away from an exit ramp there aren't even road signs. Hell, maybe the 13th pick won't want to go through a rebuild and wants to win.
I don't think me calling Rubio average is out of line at all. We know what he excels at we know what he doesn't. He's not a top 10 PG and the tier he's in you could be talked into taking several guys over him. I mean you said it, needs a shot to be elite. Until then middle of the road.
I think you're overreacting and overplaying what Rubio actually said. His comments were in no way a threat. I'd be shocked if Ricky didn't' stay, and I think most of us would. On the flip side, I think we also all felt there was a good chance since Love's rookie deal that he's been looking for a way out.
I also disagree with your take that there's no middle ground between average and elite. Ricky is already elite in categories such as steals, rebounds, and assists. He also controls the offense masterfully even without a shot. If he gets a shot, then he's in the talk for best PGs in the league.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:55 am
by Shumway
mrhockey89 wrote:I find myself disagreeing with most people on this thread (lip/longstanding/drew/alex). Not only do I have no problem with Flip stating that, but I'm happy he did.
Why would it hurt Love's chances at wanting to stay? Because it's challenging Love's feelings? I call BS, and here's why... Let's look at the possibilities of what Love's current thoughts are and what Flip's words could possibly do...
-Love could want out regardless. In this scenario, it doesn't matter what Flip says, but it does give the rest of the team a leader to stand behind in Flip.
-Love feels sorry for himself for not making the playoffs, feels it's probably best to move on. In this scenario, if Flip says "yes, Love has the right to feel sorry for himself" then he's basically validating that Love should want out. This reinforces Love feeling sorry for himself. By Flip stating what he did, it challenges Love into taking a new perspective and ownership on the situation with where the team is at.
I really agree with this perspective. I expect this was a pretty deliberate move by Flip to try to challenge Love. Remember the context of Flip's relationship with Love. This isn't Kahn saying it about Love. Flip has been very complimentary of Love so far and appears to have made a real effort to appease any of Kevin's negative feelings towards the previous front office.
If Flip has any level of respect from Love, then challenging him may be the best way to motivate him. I don't think it's disrespectful to Love. If anything, it's just a little bit clichéd - it's a bit "don't feel sorry for ourselves, get out there and make a difference..." type of speech.
It might be easier to try to convince Love to stay by complimenting him as much as possible and pandering to him as much as possible, but I suspect that always comes across a little bit shallow. I suspect the best approach is maintain a genuine mutual respect between Love and Flip. And that involves Flip being able to push back on Love a bit as well. We often talk of the Wolves lacking leadership. Perhaps this is Flip's way of taking a bit of a leadership stance on things.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:16 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
lipoli390 wrote:foye2smith wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:Lip, I recall Kahn saying that, but I think he said "2nd or 3rd" best player (although you could be right)...but keep it in context..Kahn did say that BEFORE Love had his breakout season and was sharing the floor with Al Jefferson. Love has since exceeded all our expectations for his ceiling.
Yep he has exceeded most if not all of our expectations. Fans, casual fans especially forget that he came into the league a little bit of a porker. Guy has worked extremely hard to become who he is today.
I'm absolutely sure Kahn saiid 3rd or 4th best player. It's been etched in my mind ever since he made the comment. I remember how surprising it was because even then it was clear he was at least a third best on a championship team with the potential to be more. At the time, Love was already a prolific rebounder at the NBA level and had shown he could score inside and out. But more importantly, our top exec should not have so categorically capped his best player's potential at age 22 to a group of season ticket holders. Combine that with the other things and you can understand why Love might be on a fairly short fuse with this organization.
Lip, I agree that it was a stupid, uninformed comment by Kahn...what a moron. But I don't agree with your comment that we should understand why Love is on a short fuse with the organization. If Love is unhappy with the Timberwolves because a failure of a GM who was subsequently fired by the organization made a stupid, unflattering comment about him, he's even more immature than I thought.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:33 am
by thedoper
I am really torn on this. I agree with the sentiment that what Flip said was good but it certainly wasn't helping the speculation about Love. But the reality that I keep coming back in all this garbage is that maybe Love really is as much of a douche bag as I feared. No one involved with him in pro basketball has nice things to say about the guy's personality. Everyone knows he is a great talent, but with this and the Rubio comments, and all of the other red flags I believe the writing is on the wall.
Re: Damn Flip called Love out on KFAN
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:47 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Love > Rose > Noah
That changes if Rose is back to his MVP form, but watching him last year was brutal. His jumper was the same (not good), but he wasn't finishing at the rim like he used to. I'm not sure he'll ever be the same player he once was. And let's not be foolish when comparing Noah to Love. I love JoNo's heart and grit (and the face he's a Gator), but he can't touch Love's level as a player.