Minnesota Sports Forum

All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!

I wonder how many wins teh team improved under Kahn?

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!

The Wolves were going to be capped out due to two players that were here before Thibs, and were going to be maxed out no matter who the POBO was. Even if you keep Rubio with the savings over Teague they'd still be hard up against the cap. I really cannot fault Thibs the POBO, the only potential long term disaster move was maxing out Wiggins, which would have happened no matter who the POBO was.

TheSP wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!

The Wolves were going to be capped out due to two players that were here before Thibs, and were going to be maxed out no matter who the POBO was. Even if you keep Rubio with the savings over Teague they'd still be hard up against the cap. I really cannot fault Thibs the POBO, the only potential long term disaster move was maxing out Wiggins, which would have happened no matter who the POBO was.

So you are on board with the Dieng signing then????

The team would have eventually been over the cap, but the hope was that they would be a contender and have all the pieces in place before KAT's contract came into play.

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!

I agree with the SP that any POBO would have maxed out Wiggins and Towns, which puts pretty much any scenario against the luxury tax. Also, Thibs gave the vets all short term movable deals. That's an asset overall as a contract like Teague's, though large, can be moved. None of it is impressive, but it's not a net negative at all.

Kahn started rebuilding immediately and they managed a paltry 15 wins his first season, and the team he left with Flip pumped out 40 wins. Thibs managed 31 wins (2 more than Mitchell) his first season and I would guess a full season might have brought 40-45 wins. Not really seeing much of a difference. For as bad as Kahn was, Thibs actually looks to be worse.

sjm34 wrote:

TheSP wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!

The Wolves were going to be capped out due to two players that were here before Thibs, and were going to be maxed out no matter who the POBO was. Even if you keep Rubio with the savings over Teague they'd still be hard up against the cap. I really cannot fault Thibs the POBO, the only potential long term disaster move was maxing out Wiggins, which would have happened no matter who the POBO was.

So you are on board with the Dieng signing then????

The team would have eventually been over the cap, but the hope was that they would be a contender and have all the pieces in place before KAT's contract came into play.

In hindsight Dieng was overpaid for sure. He had the luck of signing in that period where the money was flowing with the new contract jacking up the cap. I think it would be fair to hit Thibs on that, though I would suggest POBO Thibs envisioned a larger role than Coach Thibs was willing to give him.

Their contender hopes have always been tied to Wiggins becoming a star alongside KAT. I wouldn't argue too strenuously with you if you were to suggest Coach Thibs had a hand in stunting his growth. I wouldn't buy in fully because I don't think you can coach a killer mentality into a passive individual. Short of a significant injury that netted them another top draft pick they weren't going to find any transformational players elsewhere.

I'm not saying POBO Thibs was great, but I don't think that is the reason this team didn't improve more.

thedoper wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

thedoper wrote:All criticism of Thibs aside he still left us a better team than what we had with him coming in. He had a lot of problems and I agree it was time for him to move, but putting him on the same level or even the same breath of some of the catastrophic failures we've seen in Wolves' management is a little too far for me. The problem as I saw it and always did was in giving him a dual role of positions that are supposed to be opposed by nature.

I guess it depends on whether you include resources in that discussion. He took over a team that won about 30 games, and should have improved year to year without any changes. The wolves had cap space and no bad deals on the roster. Now we have a team that is likely about 12 wins better and up against the luxury tax. Not impressed!

I agree with the SP that any POBO would have maxed out Wiggins and Towns, which puts pretty much any scenario against the luxury tax. Also, Thibs gave the vets all short term movable deals. That's an asset overall as a contract like Teague's, though large, can be moved. None of it is impressive, but it's not a net negative at all.

I am sure Teague's deal can be moved, but what would it cost us. I don't see us getting any value back for him.

TheSP wrote:

sjm34 wrote:

So you are on board with the Dieng signing then????

The team would have eventually been over the cap, but the hope was that they would be a contender and have all the pieces in place before KAT's contract came into play.

In hindsight Dieng was overpaid for sure. He had the luck of signing in that period where the money was flowing with the new contract jacking up the cap. I think it would be fair to hit Thibs on that, though I would suggest POBO Thibs envisioned a larger role than Coach Thibs was willing to give him.

Their contender hopes have always been tied to Wiggins becoming a star alongside KAT. I wouldn't argue too strenuously with you if you were to suggest Coach Thibs had a hand in stunting his growth. I wouldn't buy in fully because I don't think you can coach a killer mentality into a passive individual. Short of a significant injury that netted them another top draft pick they weren't going to find any transformational players elsewhere.

I'm not saying POBO Thibs was great, but I don't think that is the reason this team didn't improve more.

My thought is that you don't go all in until you know what you have in Wig. He could have waited another year before signing Dieng or Wig to there big deals.