Young and Cheap

[Lipoli390]

If you want Hope could we think we could be the next Nets type franchise? Sean Marks got the job in February of 2016 and it was a terrible job no draft picks cap hell limited talent etc. They built a playoff team and made themselves attractive enough to get 2 max level players to come there. They had and still have an embarrassment of riches of lead guard types. They did all this despite never picking in the lottery. Their highest draft pick during that time was #20 Caris Lavert with the pick they got for Thad Young. It will be interesting to see how things work out now and it's possible they lose more players as they will be paying all that money to Kyrie Durant and deandre Jordon for the next few years. They would have had to make some decisions on how much to pay guys soon anyway so...yeah. Dane Moore Has suggested Lavert as a guy that may be worth being a guy the wolves Could pursue for their next target.

Good post, Monster. That's another recent example of an NBA front office that has shown excellent judgment with their draft picks, young players acquisitions and cap management. A Then they were able to parlay all that into signing Kyrie and Devin Durant without giving up their core young pieces, LaVert and Allen. Again, it all starts with building a young foundation through a combination of the draft and/or the acquisition of young high-upside players before they adjust to the NBA. Teams like Golden State and others have build contenders or champions around those picks and acquisitions. Others like the Lakers this summer build contenders by trading those picks and acquisitions for a big time star or two. Others like the Nets use those picks and acquisitions to make their teams attractive to elite free agents.

I don't think the Nets model works particularly well for a franchise like the Wolves. The Nets are in a destination city, New York. But you never know. If the Wolves build an exciting core around KAT and another young player or two while skillfully managing the payroll, an elite free agent could conceivably have an interest in coming to the Wolves. I still think a more likely (but still highly uncertain) path for the Wolves will be surrounding KAT with two all-star caliber players organically through the draft and/or young player acquisitions. Hopefully, the Wolvs hit on two of the following:

1. Okogie
2. Culver
3. Nowell
4. KBD
5. Vonleh
6. Bell
7. Layman
8. Naz Reid
9. Martin
10. Next year's 1st round pick
11. Next year's 2nd round pick
12. 2020 1st round pick
13. 2020 2nd round pick
14. Assets/players acquired in exchange for Teague and Covington (I speculate)

The question is this: Can the Wolves develop two all-star caliber players from this list of 13 players/assets by the time KAT enters the 4th year of his 5-year deal? Obviously, some players on this list have a better chance than others (i.e., Culver and Okogie over Layman, Reid, etc.). But you never know. We finally have coaches known for player development.

There is good reason to believe that a number of these guys have allstar caliber potential. For example, Vonleh was the 9th pick in the 2014 draft and was widely regarded as a top 10 prospect. He averaged 9 rebounds a game as a college freshman in only 26.5 minutes per game. That's elite and rebounding is a skill that translates well to the NBA. He showed signs last season of finally breaking though with nearly 8 rebounds in only 25 minutes per game. KBD was Big 10 Player of the Year and showed some flashes of his ability a the NBA level last season. Nowell was Pac-12 Player of the Year and shot over 50% from the field as a sophomore shooting guard -- which is extremely rare.

I still see Culver and Okogie as our best prospects, although I have a really good feeling about Nowell. I wasn't a huge Culver fan, but he was a near-consensus top 5 pick in this year's draft and he did lead Texas Tech to the NCAA finals. Obviously Rosas is really high on him. Okogie has an extremely rare combination of elite length and athletic ability along with a great motor. His sophomore college stats were excellent, so he's already shown he's a player and not just a physical specimen. He struggled last season, but that's been true for a lot of rookies who went on to become allstar caliber NBA players. Sometimes things don't click until a player's 4th, 5th or even 6th season as was the case with players like Lowry, Billups and Oladipo among others. Even James Harden didn't have a particularly impressive rookie season, averaging about 10 points per game and shooting only around 40% from the field.

So there you have it - the case for hope. Would I go to Vegas a put a lot of money on the Wolves becoming a top 4 team in the West 3 years from now? No. But I wouldn't bet against that happening either.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I would definitely put money down on the Wolves NOT being a top 4 team in the West three years from now.

Sort of a "fool me 9x, fool me 10x" sort of take from me though...

[WildWolf2813]

If you want Hope could we think we could be the next Nets type franchise? Sean Marks got the job in February of 2016 and it was a terrible job no draft picks cap hell limited talent etc. They built a playoff team and made themselves attractive enough to get 2 max level players to come there. They had and still have an embarrassment of riches of lead guard types. They did all this despite never picking in the lottery. Their highest draft pick during that time was #20 Caris Lavert with the pick they got for Thad Young. It will be interesting to see how things work out now and it's possible they lose more players as they will be paying all that money to Kyrie Durant and deandre Jordon for the next few years. They would have had to make some decisions on how much to pay guys soon anyway so...yeah. Dane Moore Has suggested Lavert as a guy that may be worth being a guy the wolves Could pursue for their next target.

The Nets had things that worked in their favor that this franchise doesn't have

1. expectations. the Nets are an afterthought in NYC and given how bad Billy King was, there wasn't any pressure on any of their players to succeed, so they had all the time in the world to develop their games. That leads me to #2

2. Time. The Nets last year eventually wound up ahead of schedule mainly due to Russell finally clicking in December. Before that, they were struggling worse than we were, and it still didn't matter that much. Kenny Atkinson's seat was getting warm, but other than that, it was still very much about developing guys and finding roles. Sean Marks really hit on a lot of parts, Dinwiddie and Harris and Russell specifically. What also helped was that they didn't have the pressure of building around a player yet. We have that in Towns, but for how long? In fact, this entire process would oddly be easier if Towns wasn't here only because with the Nets, they saw rock bottom and were trying to build themselves back up. The Wolves short term will see worse days ahead... unless Rosas finds his own Dinwiddie, Harris, and even a Russell. How likely that is with the guys he has? Not likely. Layman is by far his best bet.

3. Because they didn't have picks, flexibility wasn't that important. They'd take a bad deal if it meant getting a pick. Deron Williams STILL counts for $5.47 mil against their cap after he was stretched. Their success came from good drafting and really hitting on guys they bought low and kept at a reasonable rate. Joe Harris was signed for the minimum, was given 22-25 minutes a night and he made the most of it. Spencer Dinwiddie was another castoff who signed for the minimum, got the same amount of time and cashed out soon after. The difference here is that it's not as open here. The Nets had 13(!) guys average at least 17.6 minutes a game. Not even Russell averaged more than 30 minutes a game (and early on would get yanked during the 4th quarter in favor of Dinwiddie, so there were no favorites). Here, there's more entitlement from our starters, so there's less minutes to go around, thus making it harder to evaluate. Teague's MPG would have ranked .1 behind Harris and Russell. Long story short, Other than Towns and maybe RoCo, everyone that's used to playing huge minutes, especially Wiggins, has to see a reduction in time.

[kekgeek]

Personally I don't get how we could the Nets. When the Marks took over they didn't have picks correct but they were about to come upon a ton of cap space with Joe Johnson coming as an expiring in 4 months.

They were able to absorb bad contracts to acquire assets. Like Mozgov, Carroll and Crabee. Something the wolves don't have the ability to do. The Nets also had time to be patient unlike the wolves. Wolves best player could ask out as soon as next year or in 2 years seeing the wolves aren't going anywhere.


Nets also a big market that can put themselves in the discussion to acquire marquee free agents something the wolves never be able to do.


Of course we could hit on draft picks but its damn hard to do

[WildWolf2813]

Personally I don't get how we could the Nets. When the Marks took over they didn't have picks correct but they were about to come upon a ton of cap space with Joe Johnson coming as an expiring in 4 months.

They were able to absorb bad contracts to acquire assets. Like Mozgov, Carroll and Crabee. Something the wolves don't have the ability to do. The Nets also had time to be patient unlike the wolves. Wolves best player could ask out as soon as next year or in 2 years seeing the wolves aren't going anywhere.


Nets also a big market that can put themselves in the discussion to acquire marquee free agents something the wolves never be able to do.


Of course we could hit on draft picks but its damn hard to do

Agreed except on the market. Yes, they're in the biggest city in the world, but the big drawback to the Nets despite being in that region for so many years is that they would always be an afterthought compared to the Knicks in this city. They were able to land Kyrie and KD not just because of the location, but because the Nets have rebranded themselves as the cool up and coming alternative and we're gonna see that team go from last in attendance to top 10 in 1 year. It has become cool to be the other NY team in the eyes of the players when that used to be a negative so big it negated being in the biggest metro area in the country.

[kekgeek]

If you want Hope could we think we could be the next Nets type franchise? Sean Marks got the job in February of 2016 and it was a terrible job no draft picks cap hell limited talent etc. They built a playoff team and made themselves attractive enough to get 2 max level players to come there. They had and still have an embarrassment of riches of lead guard types. They did all this despite never picking in the lottery. Their highest draft pick during that time was #20 Caris Lavert with the pick they got for Thad Young. It will be interesting to see how things work out now and it's possible they lose more players as they will be paying all that money to Kyrie Durant and deandre Jordon for the next few years. They would have had to make some decisions on how much to pay guys soon anyway so...yeah. Dane Moore Has suggested Lavert as a guy that may be worth being a guy the wolves Could pursue for their next target.

The Nets had things that worked in their favor that this franchise doesn't have

1. expectations. the Nets are an afterthought in NYC and given how bad Billy King was, there wasn't any pressure on any of their players to succeed, so they had all the time in the world to develop their games. That leads me to #2

2. Time. The Nets last year eventually wound up ahead of schedule mainly due to Russell finally clicking in December. Before that, they were struggling worse than we were, and it still didn't matter that much. Kenny Atkinson's seat was getting warm, but other than that, it was still very much about developing guys and finding roles. Sean Marks really hit on a lot of parts, Dinwiddie and Harris and Russell specifically. What also helped was that they didn't have the pressure of building around a player yet. We have that in Towns, but for how long? In fact, this entire process would oddly be easier if Towns wasn't here only because with the Nets, they saw rock bottom and were trying to build themselves back up. The Wolves short term will see worse days ahead... unless Rosas finds his own Dinwiddie, Harris, and even a Russell. How likely that is with the guys he has? Not likely. Layman is by far his best bet.

3. Because they didn't have picks, flexibility wasn't that important. They'd take a bad deal if it meant getting a pick. Deron Williams STILL counts for $5.47 mil against their cap after he was stretched. Their success came from good drafting and really hitting on guys they bought low and kept at a reasonable rate. Joe Harris was signed for the minimum, was given 22-25 minutes a night and he made the most of it. Spencer Dinwiddie was another castoff who signed for the minimum, got the same amount of time and cashed out soon after. The difference here is that it's not as open here. The Nets had 13(!) guys average at least 17.6 minutes a game. Not even Russell averaged more than 30 minutes a game (and early on would get yanked during the 4th quarter in favor of Dinwiddie, so there were no favorites). Here, there's more entitlement from our starters, so there's less minutes to go around, thus making it harder to evaluate. Teague's MPG would have ranked .1 behind Harris and Russell. Long story short, Other than Towns and maybe RoCo, everyone that's used to playing huge minutes, especially Wiggins, has to see a reduction in time.

Nice post you beat me to it.

I think the main 2 differences between us in the Nets are cap space and time.

Nets had cap space to acquire bad contracts connected to assets. The wolves have the bad contracts and no cap space.

Nets couple be patient with the young guys and keep taking chances on young players. The wolves are looking at 4 of 5 years no playoffs for Kat and being a wolf cost him money and that is a fact

[kekgeek]

Personally I don't get how we could the Nets. When the Marks took over they didn't have picks correct but they were about to come upon a ton of cap space with Joe Johnson coming as an expiring in 4 months.

They were able to absorb bad contracts to acquire assets. Like Mozgov, Carroll and Crabee. Something the wolves don't have the ability to do. The Nets also had time to be patient unlike the wolves. Wolves best player could ask out as soon as next year or in 2 years seeing the wolves aren't going anywhere.


Nets also a big market that can put themselves in the discussion to acquire marquee free agents something the wolves never be able to do.


Of course we could hit on draft picks but its damn hard to do

Agreed except on the market. Yes, they're in the biggest city in the world, but the big drawback to the Nets despite being in that region for so many years is that they would always be an afterthought compared to the Knicks in this city. They were able to land Kyrie and KD not just because of the location, but because the Nets have rebranded themselves as the cool up and coming alternative and we're gonna see that team go from last in attendance to top 10 in 1 year. It has become cool to be the other NY team in the eyes of the players when that used to be a negative so big it negated being in the biggest metro area in the country.

I agree in the sense on court/ culture moved the Nets passed the Knicks but Durant and Kyrie so much more likely to go to the Nets because off court possibilities are so much higher in NY than 90% of the NBA

[Monster]

Personally I don't get how we could the Nets. When the Marks took over they didn't have picks correct but they were about to come upon a ton of cap space with Joe Johnson coming as an expiring in 4 months.

They were able to absorb bad contracts to acquire assets. Like Mozgov, Carroll and Crabee. Something the wolves don't have the ability to do. The Nets also had time to be patient unlike the wolves. Wolves best player could ask out as soon as next year or in 2 years seeing the wolves aren't going anywhere.


Nets also a big market that can put themselves in the discussion to acquire marquee free agents something the wolves never be able to do.


Of course we could hit on draft picks but its damn hard to do

Agreed except on the market. Yes, they're in the biggest city in the world, but the big drawback to the Nets despite being in that region for so many years is that they would always be an afterthought compared to the Knicks in this city. They were able to land Kyrie and KD not just because of the location, but because the Nets have rebranded themselves as the cool up and coming alternative and we're gonna see that team go from last in attendance to top 10 in 1 year. It has become cool to be the other NY team in the eyes of the players when that used to be a negative so big it negated being in the biggest metro area in the country.

I agree in the sense on court/ culture moved the Nets passed the Knicks but Durant and Kyrie so much more likely to go to the Nets because off court possibilities are so much higher in NY than 90% of the NBA

Yeah the Nets did have cap space (I was thinking they were in a worse place) so yeah they got picks and players with that space. You know what though the Wolves already have a franchise player in Towns and they have all their picks so they don't have to have as many bites at the Apple. The Nets had neither of those things. The most worthwhile player they got with their cap space that wasn't a draft pick was Russell who they got nothing for when he left (except being able to overpay Jordon) and they did give up a 2nd round pick to move on from mozgov. Also worth noting that the Lakers got back a 1st round pick in that Russell deal which they used to select Kuzma.

The ultimate truth about the Nets is they took a team going nowhere and with smart basketball decisions, eye for talent and player development built a team that was on the rise. That's not easy to do as any Wolves fan knows. The market had nothing to do with that process. Kyrie and Durant selecting them? Sure I can see that but I don't even care about those guys going there when I look at the success of what the Nets built. I'm honestly not even convinced Durant and Kyrie there is going to work out. I'm not saying ai disagree with the move but IMO there are some concerns.

[bleedspeed]

I don't think the Nets make the playoffs this year.

[Lipoli390]

Personally I don't get how we could the Nets. When the Marks took over they didn't have picks correct but they were about to come upon a ton of cap space with Joe Johnson coming as an expiring in 4 months.

They were able to absorb bad contracts to acquire assets. Like Mozgov, Carroll and Crabee. Something the wolves don't have the ability to do. The Nets also had time to be patient unlike the wolves. Wolves best player could ask out as soon as next year or in 2 years seeing the wolves aren't going anywhere.


Nets also a big market that can put themselves in the discussion to acquire marquee free agents something the wolves never be able to do.


Of course we could hit on draft picks but its damn hard to do

Agreed except on the market. Yes, they're in the biggest city in the world, but the big drawback to the Nets despite being in that region for so many years is that they would always be an afterthought compared to the Knicks in this city. They were able to land Kyrie and KD not just because of the location, but because the Nets have rebranded themselves as the cool up and coming alternative and we're gonna see that team go from last in attendance to top 10 in 1 year. It has become cool to be the other NY team in the eyes of the players when that used to be a negative so big it negated being in the biggest metro area in the country.

I agree in the sense on court/ culture moved the Nets passed the Knicks but Durant and Kyrie so much more likely to go to the Nets because off court possibilities are so much higher in NY than 90% of the NBA

Yeah the Nets did have cap space (I was thinking they were in a worse place) so yeah they got picks and players with that space. You know what though the Wolves already have a franchise player in Towns and they have all their picks so they don't have to have as many bites at the Apple. The Nets had neither of those things. The most worthwhile player they got with their cap space that wasn't a draft pick was Russell who they got nothing for when he left (except being able to overpay Jordon) and they did give up a 2nd round pick to move on from mozgov. Also worth noting that the Lakers got back a 1st round pick in that Russell deal which they used to select Kuzma.

The ultimate truth about the Nets is they took a team going nowhere and with smart basketball decisions, eye for talent and player development built a team that was on the rise. That's not easy to do as any Wolves fan knows. The market had nothing to do with that process. Kyrie and Durant selecting them? Sure I can see that but I don't even care about those guys going there when I look at the success of what the Nets built. I'm honestly not even convinced Durant and Kyrie there is going to work out. I'm not saying ai disagree with the move but IMO there are some concerns.

Well said, Monster!