Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:A closing post-script based on tonight's game. Our great defensive hope started at PG tonight and guess what -- we gave up 123 points. Although Dunn did log 16 assists.

I missed the game so I'm relying entirely on the box score. But it's a familiar box score showing KAT to be the only critical "build-around" player on this roster. 28 points and 21 rebounds. But that's not just tonight. Put KAT in the line up and he'll give you 25 points and over 12 boards nearly every single game along with nearly 3 assists and at least 1 block. And his scoring is always efficient. He shot 54% from the field and was among the better 3-point shooters in the League at 36.2%. I know he needs a lot of work on his defense, but there's no denying he's a force offensively and on the boards. And remember that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense.

I've stated that I want to keep our entire core together, including Wiggins, Gorgui, Zach and Ricky. I stand by that, but there is only one guy on this roster I would absolutely positively not trade and that's KAT. Among the rest of the core guys I mentioned, here's how I rank them from least inclined to trade to most willing to trade (although I wouldn't try to trade any of them):

1. Gorgui -- The ultimate glue guy. Amazingly consistent and way underrated by many.

2. Zach - Assumign he comes back healthy, I still love his upside. With his 3-point shooting and ball-handling I see him as a potentially more complete player than Wiggins.

3. Ricky -- The only guy other than Gorgui who will take a charge and who will play with heart and fire in his belly on both ends of the court every single minute he's on the court. His recent improvement in his shooting vaults him ahead of Wiggins on my "reluctant to trade" list.

4. Wiggins -- A tremendous talent who has reached a point in his career where it's hard to see him as anything more than a great scorer who is somewhat streaky and not always engaged emotionally. He could still be more and I definitely don't think we should actively shop him. But I'd be all ears for the right offer.

I mean come on. There's not a GM in the entire league that would have Wiggins below Dieng, Lavine and Ricky from a value standpoint. He's the second most valuable player on the team and he's still super young. 20 PPG 22 year olds are few and far between in this league. Dieng is a bench big, Zach is coming off a torn ACL and Ricky has yet to be the primary ball handler on even a .500 team and he's already in the prime of his career.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:A closing post-script based on tonight's game. Our great defensive hope started at PG tonight and guess what -- we gave up 123 points. Although Dunn did log 16 assists.

I missed the game so I'm relying entirely on the box score. But it's a familiar box score showing KAT to be the only critical "build-around" player on this roster. 28 points and 21 rebounds. But that's not just tonight. Put KAT in the line up and he'll give you 25 points and over 12 boards nearly every single game along with nearly 3 assists and at least 1 block. And his scoring is always efficient. He shot 54% from the field and was among the better 3-point shooters in the League at 36.2%. I know he needs a lot of work on his defense, but there's no denying he's a force offensively and on the boards. And remember that defensive rebounding is part of playing defense.

I've stated that I want to keep our entire core together, including Wiggins, Gorgui, Zach and Ricky. I stand by that, but there is only one guy on this roster I would absolutely positively not trade and that's KAT. Among the rest of the core guys I mentioned, here's how I rank them from least inclined to trade to most willing to trade (although I wouldn't try to trade any of them):

1. Gorgui -- The ultimate glue guy. Amazingly consistent and way underrated by many.

2. Zach - Assumign he comes back healthy, I still love his upside. With his 3-point shooting and ball-handling I see him as a potentially more complete player than Wiggins.

3. Ricky -- The only guy other than Gorgui who will take a charge and who will play with heart and fire in his belly on both ends of the court every single minute he's on the court. His recent improvement in his shooting vaults him ahead of Wiggins on my "reluctant to trade" list.

4. Wiggins -- A tremendous talent who has reached a point in his career where it's hard to see him as anything more than a great scorer who is somewhat streaky and not always engaged emotionally. He could still be more and I definitely don't think we should actively shop him. But I'd be all ears for the right offer.

I mean come on. There's not a GM in the entire league that would have Wiggins below Dieng, Lavine and Ricky from a value standpoint. He's the second most valuable player on the team and he's still super young. 20 PPG 22 year olds are few and far between in this league. Dieng is a bench big, Zach is coming off a torn ACL and Ricky has yet to be the primary ball handler on even a .500 team and he's already in the prime of his career.

Lip answered already...

But wanted to chime in with a bit more.

Each of the four players will get a certain value back in return. Without doubt... Wiggins is the gem of that bunch and would garner a helluva lot more than the other guys. So, with that much on the table... I think it's savvy of the Wolves to listen (and pretend not to be interested).

Will that trade be out there? Dunno. But it could conceivably change the franchise.

lipoli390 wrote:By the way, I'm not advocating for a Wiggins trade and I agree with Q that it's highly unlikely Thibs will trade him or KAT. I'd add that I don't see Thibs trading Gorgui. He LOVES Gorgui. More likely Thibs will trade Ricky or Zach.

sjm34 wrote:I wish I could pickup a pair of the Gorgui "rose colored glasses" . The guy is the weak link in the defense, is the reason they can load up on Wiggins and Towns offensively, and now has an albatross of a contract as well. Gorgui is now untradeable, and will be a wolf for life.

Can't believe we have waited for over 20 years to get a wing that could create his own offense, and we are now talking about trading him. Here's a comparison between WIg and Butler in their third seasons. Notice that Butler is 3 years older as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1_select=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1=wiggian01&y1=2017&player_id2_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2_select=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2=butleji01&y2=2014

I am guessing that those talking about trading Wiggins, have never been "THE" player on their team. If you had been, you would realize how much energy you expend trying to continually take on double teams. It takes time for players to find their niche, and then fill in the other areas of their games. Butler came in as a defensive player, and slowly built
his offense, whereas Wiggins is doing the reverse. I have seen some nice changes in Andrews defense, but we won't see results until we put a big next to Towns who knows how to defend the PnR.

sjm34 wrote:I wish I could pickup a pair of the Gorgui "rose colored glasses" . The guy is the weak link in the defense, is the reason they can load up on Wiggins and Towns offensively, and now has an albatross of a contract as well. Gorgui is now untradeable, and will be a wolf for life.

Can't believe we have waited for over 20 years to get a wing that could create his own offense, and we are now talking about trading him. Here's a comparison between WIg and Butler in their third seasons. Notice that Butler is 3 years older as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1_select=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1=wiggian01&y1=2017&player_id2_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2_select=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2=butleji01&y2=2014

I am guessing that those talking about trading Wiggins, have never been "THE" player on their team. If you had been, you would realize how much energy you expend trying to continually take on double teams. It takes time for players to find their niche, and then fill in the other areas of their games. Butler came in as a defensive player, and slowly built
his offense, whereas Wiggins is doing the reverse. I have seen some nice changes in Andrews defense, but we won't see results until we put a big next to Towns who knows how to defend the PnR.

sjm34 wrote:I wish I could pickup a pair of the Gorgui "rose colored glasses" . The guy is the weak link in the defense, is the reason they can load up on Wiggins and Towns offensively, and now has an albatross of a contract as well. Gorgui is now untradeable, and will be a wolf for life.

Can't believe we have waited for over 20 years to get a wing that could create his own offense, and we are now talking about trading him. Here's a comparison between WIg and Butler in their third seasons. Notice that Butler is 3 years older as well.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1_select=Andrew+Wiggins&player_id1=wiggian01&y1=2017&player_id2_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2_select=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2=butleji01&y2=2014

I am guessing that those talking about trading Wiggins, have never been "THE" player on their team. If you had been, you would realize how much energy you expend trying to continually take on double teams. It takes time for players to find their niche, and then fill in the other areas of their games. Butler came in as a defensive player, and slowly built
his offense, whereas Wiggins is doing the reverse. I have seen some nice changes in Andrews defense, but we won't see results until we put a big next to Towns who knows how to defend the PnR.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:


We're talking about the NBA... and NBA history. I just don't see how Timmy McBuckets role at Peoria Prep or for Leo's Pizza Emporium in the Fridley Men's League has anything to do with that.

And I don't know if anybody is actively suggesting that Wiggins is traded. So let's curb that immediately before assumptions derail another thread. The fact is that Wiggins is in Year 4. He's shown flashes. But he's also shown flaws. There's at least a possibility that all of those flaws won't be fixed... just like there's a possibility that his promise will be realized.

As with any trade... it's not an easy thing to improve value. You have to give something up to get something in return. That's NOT suggesting that the Wolves SHOULD trade Wiggins. But to consider him entirely off limits seems a bit too myopic for me.

What if the Sacramento Kings thought he was the next Michael Jordan and/or Buddy Hield and offered a crazy deal? Everybody has a price.*



* Except for Towns.