Minnesota Sports Forum

When does Patton come back? It'd be really beneficial to flip G for a wing to open the minutes for Belly and have Patton or Cole play spot minutes. G's contract just isn't worth the role he is playing here. I really want to see Belly play with the starters more to open up the floor. Play 5 out and actually get open 3s off drive and kick plays. That's what I thought our offense would be, but it's just a lot of indecision and a clogged up lane. We should be driving and kicking to the corner for days. The lack of corner 3's we generate is just embarrasing.

khans2k5 wrote:When does Patton come back? It'd be really beneficial to flip G for a wing to open the minutes for Belly and have Patton or Cole play spot minutes. G's contract just isn't worth the role he is playing here. I really want to see Belly play with the starters more to open up the floor. Play 5 out and actually get open 3s off drive and kick plays. That's what I thought our offense would be, but it's just a lot of indecision and a clogged up lane. We should be driving and kicking to the corner for days. The lack of corner 3's we generate is just embarrasing.

Kahns -- I like the idea of getting more minutes from Belly. And I agree 100% on our embarrassing lack of corner threes and poor spacing. But Gorgui is the only guy on this team who will take a charge. He was our best defender statistically last season and he's still pretty young on a decent contract. His play has obviously taken a dip so far this season, but it would seem likely that his play has suffered this season as a result of Thibs decision to bring him off the bench. Yet, I'd still be on board trading Gorgui for the right wing.

However, my bottom line is that Thibs should get no more trades this season. He came here last season to coach a team that he referred to as "the most talented young roster in the League." His words, not mine. And the team promptly underachieved, finishing with nearly the same record they had the previous season under Sam Mitchell. Thibs was then given a free hand over the summer to draft and sign the guys he wanted and get rid of the players he didn't. So we now have Butler, Gibson, Teague, and Crawford along with 1st round pick Patton and we no longer have Rubio. I'm fine with those moves. If were Glen Taylor, my message to Thibs would be a firm no to any trade requests. Show us your the great coach some (not me) believed you were Glen signed you. Show us by winning with the players we have - players you wanted to coach and players you went out of your way to get.

lipoli390 wrote: If I were Glen Taylor I would have figured out how to get Brad Stevens.

Fixed that for you.

Lip has harped on lack of 3 point shooting and lack of ball movement. It was all on full display in this game and the defense wasn't there either. Wiggins turned in his worst performance on th3 defensive end in a season he has looked better to me. The lack of shooting hurts but nobody seems to move a whole lot at times. Whoever has the ball is just stuck wherever they are. Teague has no passes at times just stuck there dribbling. There were times he drove and players just stood there. Should Teague have had a better plan? Yes but guys just standing around not moving giving him an option...it's disgusting. This was the worst game for me of the year. No excuses for how bad that was.

I'm gonna give Towns some credit even though he was outplayed by Howard he was absolutely battling. He looked tired at one point in the first half.

Crawford pored in points and Belly played well. Eh that's it gonna move on.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:When does Patton come back? It'd be really beneficial to flip G for a wing to open the minutes for Belly and have Patton or Cole play spot minutes. G's contract just isn't worth the role he is playing here. I really want to see Belly play with the starters more to open up the floor. Play 5 out and actually get open 3s off drive and kick plays. That's what I thought our offense would be, but it's just a lot of indecision and a clogged up lane. We should be driving and kicking to the corner for days. The lack of corner 3's we generate is just embarrasing.

Kahns -- I like the idea of getting more minutes from Belly. And I agree 100% on our embarrassing lack of corner threes and poor spacing. But Gorgui is the only guy on this team who will take a charge. He was our best defender statistically last season and he's still pretty young on a decent contract. His play has obviously taken a dip so far this season, but it would seem likely that his play has suffered this season as a result of Thibs decision to bring him off the bench. Yet, I'd still be on board trading Gorgui for the right wing.

However, my bottom line is that Thibs should get no more trades this season. He came here last season to coach a team that he referred to as "the most talented young roster in the League." His words, not mine. And the team promptly underachieved, finishing with nearly the same record they had the previous season under Sam Mitchell. Thibs was then given a free hand over the summer to draft and sign the guys he wanted and get rid of the players he didn't. So we now have Butler, Gibson, Teague, and Crawford along with 1st round pick Patton and we no longer have Rubio. I'm fine with those moves. If were Glen Taylor, my message to Thibs would be a firm no to any trade requests. Show us your the great coach some (not me) believed you were Glen signed you. Show us by winning with the players we have - players you wanted to coach and players you went out of your way to get.

It's pretty obvious he wanted another wing to "complete" his team this summer and had to settle on Bazz because he didn't have the full resources at his disposal (MLE will be key this offseason). It would be egotistical and dumb to tell a coach not to exercise the main in-season way of improving a team when you can see an obvious glaring flaw and an obvious glaring glut of bigs. His team is not complete after one offseason which most aren't with a one year turnaround. You want to keep losing? Then keep making dumbass decisions like restricting the ability to improve the team.

Taj has proven he deserves that spot and Dieng has done nothing to give Thibs a reason to put him back in the starting lineup. We've seen Towns/Dieng as the frontcourt for 2 straight years and it doesn't get the job done. In fact it's one of if not the worst defensive pairing in the league when it comes to protecting the rim. Time to move on from that dream. If I'm choosing between G and Gibson at this point it's pretty obviously Gibson. Dieng is averaging less blocks per 36 than our starting PG. I think it's time to let him go somewhere to start and let us get a valuable bench shooter like a Wes Matthews and 2nd round pick in return. Then it really is all on Thibs at that point to make it work, but until he gets that backup wing that can shoot 3's we don't have the complete team he almost built in just one offseason.

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:When does Patton come back? It'd be really beneficial to flip G for a wing to open the minutes for Belly and have Patton or Cole play spot minutes. G's contract just isn't worth the role he is playing here. I really want to see Belly play with the starters more to open up the floor. Play 5 out and actually get open 3s off drive and kick plays. That's what I thought our offense would be, but it's just a lot of indecision and a clogged up lane. We should be driving and kicking to the corner for days. The lack of corner 3's we generate is just embarrasing.

Kahns -- I like the idea of getting more minutes from Belly. And I agree 100% on our embarrassing lack of corner threes and poor spacing. But Gorgui is the only guy on this team who will take a charge. He was our best defender statistically last season and he's still pretty young on a decent contract. His play has obviously taken a dip so far this season, but it would seem likely that his play has suffered this season as a result of Thibs decision to bring him off the bench. Yet, I'd still be on board trading Gorgui for the right wing.

However, my bottom line is that Thibs should get no more trades this season. He came here last season to coach a team that he referred to as "the most talented young roster in the League." His words, not mine. And the team promptly underachieved, finishing with nearly the same record they had the previous season under Sam Mitchell. Thibs was then given a free hand over the summer to draft and sign the guys he wanted and get rid of the players he didn't. So we now have Butler, Gibson, Teague, and Crawford along with 1st round pick Patton and we no longer have Rubio. I'm fine with those moves. If were Glen Taylor, my message to Thibs would be a firm no to any trade requests. Show us your the great coach some (not me) believed you were Glen signed you. Show us by winning with the players we have - players you wanted to coach and players you went out of your way to get.

Lip, I know you love Gorgui, but cmon, pretty ridgid to say "no more trades allowed". I was saying this off season Gorgui needed to be moved. I don't care what the stats say, he's average defender at best. I doubt you'd be able to trade him, but I'd definitely be trying to get a wing. I'd be trolling every team looking at benches trying to find a upside player who's falling out of the rotation.

BloopOracle wrote:KAT has been getting punked all game

When can we officially say it's becoming an issue.

Physical post players are having their way with him. And teams are keeping him from getting the ball.

I don't know if we have enough creativity on the sidelines or on the court to figure out a solution quickly...

Duke13 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:When does Patton come back? It'd be really beneficial to flip G for a wing to open the minutes for Belly and have Patton or Cole play spot minutes. G's contract just isn't worth the role he is playing here. I really want to see Belly play with the starters more to open up the floor. Play 5 out and actually get open 3s off drive and kick plays. That's what I thought our offense would be, but it's just a lot of indecision and a clogged up lane. We should be driving and kicking to the corner for days. The lack of corner 3's we generate is just embarrasing.

Kahns -- I like the idea of getting more minutes from Belly. And I agree 100% on our embarrassing lack of corner threes and poor spacing. But Gorgui is the only guy on this team who will take a charge. He was our best defender statistically last season and he's still pretty young on a decent contract. His play has obviously taken a dip so far this season, but it would seem likely that his play has suffered this season as a result of Thibs decision to bring him off the bench. Yet, I'd still be on board trading Gorgui for the right wing.

However, my bottom line is that Thibs should get no more trades this season. He came here last season to coach a team that he referred to as "the most talented young roster in the League." His words, not mine. And the team promptly underachieved, finishing with nearly the same record they had the previous season under Sam Mitchell. Thibs was then given a free hand over the summer to draft and sign the guys he wanted and get rid of the players he didn't. So we now have Butler, Gibson, Teague, and Crawford along with 1st round pick Patton and we no longer have Rubio. I'm fine with those moves. If were Glen Taylor, my message to Thibs would be a firm no to any trade requests. Show us your the great coach some (not me) believed you were Glen signed you. Show us by winning with the players we have - players you wanted to coach and players you went out of your way to get.

Lip, I know you love Gorgui, but cmon, pretty ridgid to say "no more trades allowed". I was saying this off season Gorgui needed to be moved. I don't care what the stats say, he's average defender at best. I doubt you'd be able to trade him, but I'd definitely be trying to get a wing. I'd be trolling every team looking at benches trying to find a upside player who's falling out of the rotation.

Duke -- Obviously my point went well beyond Gorgui since my no more trades was a general statement not specific to Gorgui. I guess I need to be a bit more clear. So here goes. Any further player personnel moves are, in my view, wasted at this point so long as Thibs is still head coach and PBO. I just don't trust Thibs enough as head coach to believe that any trades he makes would significantly move the needle in a positive direction for this team. And I don't trust him enough as PBO to do what's in the long-term best interest of this organization.

I think Gorgui is undervalued by some fans. And it's Thibs more than me who loves Gorgui, giving him the big contract at the beginning of last season, repeatedly praising him after games last season and then referring to Gorgui at the end of last season as team's most improved player. I suspect I'd be far more willing than Thibs to trade Gorgui. :). Honestly, I'd be all in on trading Gorgui or anyone else except KAT if it brought a net positive return for the Wolves. I'm just not interested in any trades while Thibs is still our head coach. That's my view.

khans2k5 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:When does Patton come back? It'd be really beneficial to flip G for a wing to open the minutes for Belly and have Patton or Cole play spot minutes. G's contract just isn't worth the role he is playing here. I really want to see Belly play with the starters more to open up the floor. Play 5 out and actually get open 3s off drive and kick plays. That's what I thought our offense would be, but it's just a lot of indecision and a clogged up lane. We should be driving and kicking to the corner for days. The lack of corner 3's we generate is just embarrasing.

Kahns -- I like the idea of getting more minutes from Belly. And I agree 100% on our embarrassing lack of corner threes and poor spacing. But Gorgui is the only guy on this team who will take a charge. He was our best defender statistically last season and he's still pretty young on a decent contract. His play has obviously taken a dip so far this season, but it would seem likely that his play has suffered this season as a result of Thibs decision to bring him off the bench. Yet, I'd still be on board trading Gorgui for the right wing.

However, my bottom line is that Thibs should get no more trades this season. He came here last season to coach a team that he referred to as "the most talented young roster in the League." His words, not mine. And the team promptly underachieved, finishing with nearly the same record they had the previous season under Sam Mitchell. Thibs was then given a free hand over the summer to draft and sign the guys he wanted and get rid of the players he didn't. So we now have Butler, Gibson, Teague, and Crawford along with 1st round pick Patton and we no longer have Rubio. I'm fine with those moves. If were Glen Taylor, my message to Thibs would be a firm no to any trade requests. Show us your the great coach some (not me) believed you were Glen signed you. Show us by winning with the players we have - players you wanted to coach and players you went out of your way to get.

It's pretty obvious he wanted another wing to "complete" his team this summer and had to settle on Bazz because he didn't have the full resources at his disposal (MLE will be key this offseason). It would be egotistical and dumb to tell a coach not to exercise the main in-season way of improving a team when you can see an obvious glaring flaw and an obvious glaring glut of bigs. His team is not complete after one offseason which most aren't with a one year turnaround. You want to keep losing? Then keep making dumbass decisions like restricting the ability to improve the team.

Taj has proven he deserves that spot and Dieng has done nothing to give Thibs a reason to put him back in the starting lineup. We've seen Towns/Dieng as the frontcourt for 2 straight years and it doesn't get the job done. In fact it's one of if not the worst defensive pairing in the league when it comes to protecting the rim. Time to move on from that dream. If I'm choosing between G and Gibson at this point it's pretty obviously Gibson. Dieng is averaging less blocks per 36 than our starting PG. I think it's time to let him go somewhere to start and let us get a valuable bench shooter like a Wes Matthews and 2nd round pick in return. Then it really is all on Thibs at that point to make it work, but until he gets that backup wing that can shoot 3's we don't have the complete team he almost built in just one offseason.

Kahns -- I think the dumbass thing to do now would be allowing Thibs to make trades when he hasn't shown that he can effectively coach the guys he has -- guys he loved when he lobbied for the job here and multiple key guys he's brought in. Yes, Thibs wanted another wing -- specifically CJ Miles. But as PBO, Thibs is responsible for ending up with Bazz as his sole SF off the bench and for not having enough 3-point shooters. He made a series of choices in who he traded and who he signed with the cap room and salary cap exemptions we had. And he still could have had CJ Miles if he had been willing to give up the 1st round pick he got in the Rubio deal. While I agreed with Thibs decision to hang onto the 1st round pick, that was still Thibs' decision. Yet, that was one of may decision-points for Thibs and in the end he made all those decisions.

If you want to evaluate Dieng, look at his stats last season when he was getting consistent minutes as a starter rather than his inconsistent bench minutes through 15 games. Honestly, I'd trade Gorgui for the right return. Wes Matthews and a 2nd round pick? Probably not, but I don't think it would be a terrible deal for us. In any event, Thibs loves Gorgui's.

But again, my point isn't that there aren't trades that could potentially make this team better. My point is that any such trades are wasted if Thibs is still our head coach. And I don't trust his judgment as PBO. That's my view. I'm done with Thibs and want him gone before making further significant player personnel moves that this franchise will have to live with.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:KAT has been getting punked all game

When can we officially say it's becoming an issue.

Physical post players are having their way with him. And teams are keeping him from getting the ball.

I don't know if we have enough creativity on the sidelines or on the court to figure out a solution quickly...

I agree, Abe. It seems clear to me that KAT is better suited to the PF position playing next to a physical, defensive center like D'Andre Jordan.